Puppy Advice Am I Doing Things Right

[bax09]

Hi there, Just thought I would pop in and introduce myself. We are the happy new owners of a gorgeous 8.5 week old beagle named Baxta. He is settling in very nicely and is such a lovely little fellow.

Our current set up follws: Currently his 'crate' is a large box that he cannot get out from. This is inside. His bed and blankets and a couple of toys are in there and this is where he sleeps and where he stays when we go out. Usually just 45mins at the most. I am lucky enough to be at home with him.

Eventually we hope to train him to stay on a bed when he is inside and if he wants to go outside we will have a little house just outside the backdoor. In a very protected deck/courtyard. Currently he has outside access to this deck/courtyard where he is safetly fenced in and where he will eventually be left when we go out. When he learns to use the stairs, he will have access to our yard also.

Toilet training has been very successful at night. He wimpers to be taken out and is yet to have an accident in his box. During the day I am taking him out on the grass every 1.5 hours or when he shows signs of needing to "go toilet" BUT....when he is outside on the deck there have been some accidents when I haven't been quick enough. When this happens I just say NO! and take him on the grass. Is this the right thing to do?

Also...what is the best product to clean accidents so that he doesn't go back to this spot?

We have a 12 month old baby girl and a seven year old boy. Our boy has been shown what to do if he jumps up on him. (stand still, cross arms and say NO BAXTA)! This seems to be working ok. We make Baxta sit before he gets a pat and before feeds and coming in and out of doors. BUT....how is the best way to stop him jumping on our son and daughter....? Obviously we watch them at all times when they are together and we stop him from doing this but....I don't want him to think it is ok to jump and also don't want them to become scared of him. He mainly jumps on our daughter and I think it is because she is more his size...because if she is in her walker, he is very calm around her.

Any other puppy suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for the lengthy post.......too many questions!!!!! But thanks in advance for your responses.

http://s672.photobucket.com/albums/vv90/cfa31/

[kitty]

Hey bax - welcome to DOL, and congrats on the new puppy.

I'll offer my advice re: toilet accidents & jumping.

If your pup has an accident inside the house, it's not his fault. What you are doing with taking him outside is right, but don't say NO. Just ignore the accident, and calmly take pup outside and place on the grass.

With the jumping up - we were taught at training that if our dog jumps up when we get home, just take a step backwards. Just keep stepping backwards, and eventually the dog will stand or sit calmly at your feet. Once he's standing or sitting calmly, give lots of praise.

[Sandra777]

Obviously we watch them at all times when they are together and we stop him from doing this but....I don't want him to think it is ok to jump and also don't want them to become scared of him. He mainly jumps on our daughter and I think it is because she is more his size...because if she is in her walker, he is very calm around her.

Just keep doing what you're doing. Baxta's only been with you a few days (I hope!) so it will take time and patience, and remember that he is a baby so will have lapses.

I guess Baxta jumps on her when your daughter is on the floor? (at his height as you say) On these occasions I would ensure you were right on the floor beside her and gently encourage Baxta to play beside her, sit for a few seconds etc. If you can't be right on the floor there to control the situation IMO the puppy should be separated from the baby because puppy teeth & claws can do damage even when only used in play. Don't make it a punishment ("when baby is playing Baxta is locked up") because this might lead to some jealousy, but until he is old enough to understand what you want you have to be right there to physically intervene and if you can't be your number one priority has to be the safety of the child. If you let him jump on the baby occasionally and he enjoys it (which is likely since the baby will make interesting noises, flail about etc) then you're only encouraging him to do it again and making the habit harder to break, so instant and close supervision from the start is better than trying to stop the habit when he's discovered it's an exciting game. Except for some overexcitement, which is only to be expected with a dog, it shouldn't take more than a few weeks for him to understand that not only can he not jump on the big people in the house, he's not allowed to jump on the little one either!

[bax09]

Obviously we watch them at all times when they are together and we stop him from doing this but....I don't want him to think it is ok to jump and also don't want them to become scared of him. He mainly jumps on our daughter and I think it is because she is more his size...because if she is in her walker, he is very calm around her.

Just keep doing what you're doing. Baxta's only been with you a few days (I hope!) so it will take time and patience, and remember that he is a baby so will have lapses.

I guess Baxta jumps on her when your daughter is on the floor? (at his height as you say) On these occasions I would ensure you were right on the floor beside her and gently encourage Baxta to play beside her, sit for a few seconds etc. If you can't be right on the floor there to control the situation IMO the puppy should be separated from the baby because puppy teeth & claws can do damage even when only used in play. Don't make it a punishment ("when baby is playing Baxta is locked up") because this might lead to some jealousy, but until he is old enough to understand what you want you have to be right there to physically intervene and if you can't be your number one priority has to be the safety of the child. If you let him jump on the baby occasionally and he enjoys it (which is likely since the baby will make interesting noises, flail about etc) then you're only encouraging him to do it again and making the habit harder to break, so instant and close supervision from the start is better than trying to stop the habit when he's discovered it's an exciting game. Except for some overexcitement, which is only to be expected with a dog, it shouldn't take more than a few weeks for him to understand that not only can he not jump on the big people in the house, he's not allowed to jump on the little one either!

Thanks heaps. Great adviceThat is pretty much what we are doing. Sitting down beside her and making Baxta sit. Sometimes she is in her walker and then other times a swing or high chair so that they are both with each other but she is at a safer level. Otherwise we are right there. Never allowing him to jump on her and always make him sit and the help her to pat him. Seems to be ok. Probably just time and when she starts walking it will bring her up a level.

[bax09]

Hey bax - welcome to DOL, and congrats on the new puppy.

I'll offer my advice re: toilet accidents & jumping.

If your pup has an accident inside the house, it's not his fault. What you are doing with taking him outside is right, but don't say NO. Just ignore the accident, and calmly take pup outside and place on the grass.

With the jumping up - we were taught at training that if our dog jumps up when we get home, just take a step backwards. Just keep stepping backwards, and eventually the dog will stand or sit calmly at your feet. Once he's standing or sitting calmly, give lots of praise.

Thanks so much great to know I am on the right track. Will stop saying no when he has an accident and see what he does and will also try the backwards step.

[kitty]

you can't really discipline the puppy for having an accident inside the house. From what i understand, you'd be disciplining the action of what they're actually doing it, as opposed to WHERE they're doing it.

Molly is 5 months old, and only has maybe one accident a week in the house now, and it's usually because the door is shut.

Toilet training is hard!

[luvsdogs]

Welcome to dol. You are doing the right thing in not wanting the puppy to jump up, a lot of ppl encourage it when the puppy is young, small & very cute & wonder why they have a big dog that won't stop jumping up.

Teach your puppy to sit by luring him into the sit. Have a food treat in your hand, put it to Baxta's nose & slowly move it above his head following the line of his nose. As he looks up at the treat he will sit. After doing this a few times it's time to give it a name 'sit'. Now you can lure him into a sit for everything he gets & wants.

You will be able to teach your son how to interact with the pup & as said it's your responsibility to protect your baby & as she becomes more aware you can also teach her how to pat Baxta.

For anything you don't want him to do, as in the jumping up, totally ignore him & that means no eye contact, pushing down or talking to. It's all attention to him & that's what he wants. When he sits nicely give him a small food treat & praise. The same with the toilet training, take him outside to where you want him to go & when he does praise & treat.

The best way to clean the area he makes a mistake in is to use an enzyme cleaner. Anything with ammonia in will encourage him to go back. If you can't find any at the pet shop you can use an enzyme washing powder mixed in water to clean up with.

Edited July 22, 2009 by luvsdogs

[bax09]

Welcome to dol. You are doing the right thing in not wanting the puppy to jump up, a lot of ppl encourage it when the puppy is young, small & very cute & wonder why they have a big dog that won't stop jumping up.

Teach your puppy to sit by luring him into the sit. Have a food treat in your hand, put it to Baxta's nose & slowly move it above his head following the line of his nose. As he looks up at the treat he will sit. After doing this a few times it's time to give it a name 'sit'. Now you can lure him into a sit for everything he gets & wants.

You will be able to teach your son how to interact with the pup & as said it's your responsibility to protect your baby & as she becomes more aware you can also teach her how to pat Baxta.

For anything you don't want him to do, as in the jumping up, totally ignore him & that means no eye contact, pushing down or talking to. It's all attention to him & that's what he wants. When he sits nicely give him a small food treat & praise. The same with the toilet training, take him outside to where you want him to go & when he does praise & treat.

The best way to clean the area he makes a mistake in is to use an enzyme cleaner. Anything with ammonia in will encourage him to go back. If you can't find any at the pet shop you can use an enzyme washing powder mixed in water to clean up with.

Thanks for the advice ....very helpful! Especially the enzyme washing powder. Will give that a go. Even though I have used a disinfectant that is where he seems to be going back to. I suppose it is the ammonia that is doing that!

Re: the sitting. Luckily we have a clever little pup. He sits now when he gets his dinner, before he walks in and outside and before he gets a pat. Even without treats. I think he just loves the praise that he gets. Strange though being a beagle, I thought I would have to resort to treats more often. Maybe I will treat with food to help with the toilet training???

[luvsdogs]

That's good to hear. Tilba still sits & waits for her dinner. Treats should only be used for learning new things, then when he's doing them reliably you can phase them out. But don't be fooled, if he starts to regress introduce the treats again to get him back on track. Keep him guessing.

[kitty]

personally, i wouldn't use treats for toilet training. You don't want him to expect treats just because he wees. Just lots and lots of happy praise and a cuddle or two.

[bax09]

Thanks all for the advice...always good to get lots of opinions. Jsut brought a crate (soft type one) and have started using that as his bed.

[huski]

Anyway, about the jumping, I know from having my girl you need to nip it in the bud as quick as you can. Ignoring can be fine for adults but not necesarily for a toddler etc. So I know my methods can be a little more of a forceful aproach, but i wouldnt be afraid of upping to. Say a spray bottle with water, and a forceful push CAN discourage it, as long as its not a pansy push, it has to be forceful enough for it to be not enjoyable. But of course you counteract with rewarding the good behaviour.

It is a little more forceful but with the younger kids there is no chance to beat around the bush. And make sure visitors at this age do the same thing, or you will end up with a dog like mine, jumping on strangers ARG!(we are improving ever so slowly).

I wouldn't engage this technique with a baby puppy - remember this little guy is only 8.5 weeks old! There should be no reason to use so much force when training him. I wouldn't be pushing him so hard it was painful or uncomfortable, totally unnecessary at this age IMO.

As for Sitting on a bed later on etc. It may be better to keep the pup more outside until he matures a little bit more to be able to stay in one spot long enough. It also helpse with toilet training to keep them more outside where they SHOULD be going.(if its possible). im only just starting to do the same with my girl.

I don't see how putting a baby puppy outside for longer periods is really going to make any difference - in fact I would think it could make any behaviour worse, because they aren't spending time with you inside where you are able to reinforce the right behaviour. The older the pup gets, and the longer it goes without being taught how to behave appropriately, the bigger and stronger he will get and the worse any bad behaviour will become.

Bax09 - what a cute pup!! Tan and white beagles are the best ;)

[bax09]

Here's what I think we will be doing with regards to my questions. I think I have worked out what feels right and what seems to be working.

We brought a crate (soft) Baxta really likes it and this is where he sleeps and stays now, when I cannot be there to watch him 100%. We are keeping this where his inside bed is eventually going to be. Glad to get rid of his box...the crate is much nicer.

Bubby and pup are having lots of fully supervised time together where we encourage Baxta not to jump + lots of praise when he doeas the right thing. The rest of the time when they are both together I am trying to keep her higher than his level (in a walker). This seems to be helping calm him down.

Seven year old has been told to make Baxta sit before ALL pats and if he does jump he is saying NO! and walking away, only giving attention when he sits. He has nearly stopped jumping.

He has some time outside by himself but only 10 mins or so and othertimes we are out there with him. Because he really just likes hanging with us, I think we should have called him shadow.

He just had a lovely time in the garden with me for nearly and hour.....until he decided to roll in fresh mulch and get all dirty! Then off for a bath it was.

RE: the toilet training....went all night last night until 5am this morning.... ;) and I think that persistence is the key with daytime accidents. And am going to mop the floors with vinegar and water. If that doesn't get rid of the smell I will try the enzyme washing powder and water.

It seems to be falling into place.

[huski]

Sounds like a great plan, Bax

Just one thing though - we need more pictures ;)

[bax09]

Sounds like a great plan, Bax

Just one thing though - we need more pictures ;)

No problems, I will keep them coming

[Miranda]

It may be better to keep the pup more outside until he matures a little bit more to be able to stay in one spot long enough. It also helpse with toilet training to keep them more outside where they SHOULD be going.(if its possible).

I completely disagree with this, the puppy will never learn if he's kept outside, house training isn't that hard, you just have to be vigilant. Puppies kept outside a lot are also much more likely to become over excited when they are allowed in the house.

bax09 you appear to be doing very well ;)

[poodlefan]

Jesskah:

So no wasnt saying to chuck them outside to help behaviour just it helps them learn where to go to the toilet a little better.

How?

[bax09]

I was just saying to not be afraid to up the scale, not saying to go straight to the top of the scale.

I wasnt saying being outside more helps with other behaviours, i was saying being outside more can help with toilet training, and if you want a pup to be in one place only inside, then you should start this now, so they know where they can go from the begining.

Alot of the time yes body language can work, but for a pup jumping on the toddler you arent just going to "ignore it". Wether its, removing pup all together, sending a pup to a "spot" like time out, using a loud noise, or squirt bottle, or yes heaven forbid push the pup back down as long as the pup doesnt think its a game (i didnt mean abusivly or anything).

I was also trying to explain to help the behaviour a little more quickly, the "leave it" command can work wonders. and can work with people/toys and food if you get it good enough.

So no wasnt saying to chuck them outside to help behaviour just it helps them learn where to go to the toilet a little better.

I wasnt suggesting right up to be forceful as you can be, but just trying to point out alot of options. Just like having kids we have a step by step in our head when they dont do what there told. 1.ask nicely" 2.ask once more" 3.one more time you go to the step 4. on the step and the list goes on (example).

with a dog same thing, 1. say "leave it" (the command you may be teaching for such cases) 2. raised voice. 3. walk over with strong body language 4...... (pick watever you want)

Once you full well know the pup knows the rules, ask yourself, what will you do next if they arent listening.

Discipline with justice and reasoning. Of course we must match the crime with the discipline.

Anyway, Im not gonna turn this into a debate. We do need more pictures lol.

I suppose for what it is worth, different dogs/personalities respond differently and perhaps if Baxta doesn't respond to other methods....then pushing him away may work? So I understand where you were coming from. I tend to use my voice, used to doing this with kids..... so the raised voice I am good at!!!! and I really like the "leave it" command. So will definately try that.

Baxta is being taken outside alot too for the toilet. So, I am sure this will eventually work and I do put him outside sometimes when I cannot fully supervise him. Much easier to clean up an accident outside on the deck than inside. ;)

Thanks though for your advice. Everyones advice is appreciated and I am sure me and others will never agree with all of it. So I guess I will take what appeals to me the most.

[huski]

I was just saying to not be afraid to up the scale, not saying to go straight to the top of the scale.

I wasnt saying being outside more helps with other behaviours, i was saying being outside more can help with toilet training

I too am wondering how this will help - the pup is going to be toileting outside because that's it's only option, it won't be learning not to toilet in the house.

I've seen this happen so many times, people put the puppy/dog outside because it keeps toileting inside, the dog still toilets when it's let inside because it hasn't been taught otherwise - so back outside he goes until he is rarely let inside anymore, as the owners get more and more frustrated that the dog still toilets inside.

I wasnt suggesting right up to be forceful as you can be, but just trying to point out alot of options. Just like having kids we have a step by step in our head when they dont do what there told. 1.ask nicely" 2.ask once more" 3.one more time you go to the step 4. on the step and the list goes on (example).

Not really - you didn't mention any other options, you just said to push the dog on the ground and make sure it wasn't a "pansy" push, because when you have kids you need to be forceful. Total rubbish IMO when we are dealing with an eight week old pup.

Once you full well know the pup knows the rules, ask yourself, what will you do next if they arent listening.

Discipline with justice and reasoning. Of course we must match the crime with the discipline.

An 8.5 week old pup isn't going to know the rules. Often, we think the pup "knows" what it's done wrong when it really doesn't have a clue because we haven't been clear and consistent enough. You see it all the time when people go on about their pups toileting inside even though "they know better" or they "know that they are doing the wrong thing".

[luvsdogs]

A very helpful site for everything puppy/dog is www.dogstardaily.com

You can download Before You Get Your Puppy for free. It takes you through the process of getting a puppy & what to look for to The 1st weeks at home. There's also exerts from After You Get Your Puppy. They both go through the stages a puppy goes through & at what ages. If you want to know anything else you can use their search engine. There's also lots of videos to watch.

I'm glad you got him a crate, but as he gets older & starts to teeth he will probably start to have a go at chewing on it. Tilba is now 18 mths old & I've only in the last few months thought of getting her one. He will need lots of chew toys & rotate them so he doesn't become bored with them.

Edited July 23, 2009 by luvsdogs