DieselWeisel Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 WoofnHoof - that is a very interesting point, as when he had his first seizure since he was back (and it had been many monhs with out) was after an hour walk, his old walk down to the dog park and back, he was loving it, but that night had a seizure and I was wondering if we overdid it. Now I only drive him to the dog park or take him for two 20 min dordles a day. The two of us used to be such keen walkers, one hour walk and then one half hour walk every day... just have to take things slow now. I also think when he's cold it brings them on, at the moment he has a little fleece rug on when he's up and about, though righ now he's asleep under my doona! Is there any other links you know of? I had to give him another valium at 9pm last night, he's really happy and comfortable on them (so it appears) I just hate giving him all these tablets! Loraine thanks for your continued support of Diesel, so nice to know there are people backing him. His body condition is fantastic, he's back to normal weight and muscled really well, the vet saw him yesterday and commented on how great his body condition was (his tummy used to be sucked up and you could see his spine for a while) the only part that is sunken in, is on the side of his head, above his eyes. Vets say this is something to do with his facial paralysis, though his eyes and jaw are now back to functioning normal and the hair is growing back there. The Trilostane made the cushings tests come back 100% clear, so doesn't that mean it will stop cushings for now? will the muscle still get eaten away? Kelly Louise!! Those pictures were largely for you, you'd been asking to see my lovely little man. How is your gorgeous Chloe going with? Last I heard she was doing super well? Sounds like the same sort of thing has happened to Diesel's head as your girls, and yesterday his legs gave way when he got up :p I am sooooooooo worried this will happen when I'm not around and he'll be stuck like that, vet thinks this is also something to do with nerve damange in the brain though from his tumor, so don't be thinking it will happen to Chloe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 WoofnHoof - that is a very interesting point, as when he had his first seizure since he was back (and it had been many monhs with out) was after an hour walk, his old walk down to the dog park and back, he was loving it, but that night had a seizure and I was wondering if we overdid it. Now I only drive him to the dog park or take him for two 20 min dordles a day. The two of us used to be such keen walkers, one hour walk and then one half hour walk every day... just have to take things slow now. I also think when he's cold it brings them on, at the moment he has a little fleece rug on when he's up and about, though righ now he's asleep under my doona! Is there any other links you know of? I had to give him another valium at 9pm last night, he's really happy and comfortable on them (so it appears) I just hate giving him all these tablets!Loraine thanks for your continued support of Diesel, so nice to know there are people backing him. His body condition is fantastic, he's back to normal weight and muscled really well, the vet saw him yesterday and commented on how great his body condition was (his tummy used to be sucked up and you could see his spine for a while) the only part that is sunken in, is on the side of his head, above his eyes. Vets say this is something to do with his facial paralysis, though his eyes and jaw are now back to functioning normal and the hair is growing back there. The Trilostane made the cushings tests come back 100% clear, so doesn't that mean it will stop cushings for now? will the muscle still get eaten away? Kelly Louise!! Those pictures were largely for you, you'd been asking to see my lovely little man. How is your gorgeous Chloe going with? Last I heard she was doing super well? Sounds like the same sort of thing has happened to Diesel's head as your girls, and yesterday his legs gave way when he got up :p I am sooooooooo worried this will happen when I'm not around and he'll be stuck like that, vet thinks this is also something to do with nerve damange in the brain though from his tumor, so don't be thinking it will happen to Chloe! DW yes I was very glad to finally see pictures of Diesel - he is a fine looking boy! Chloe is doing okay, she is back on her meds (liquid Trilostane this time, and much lower dosage so the cost has come down significantly). She's now only on 20mg once a day and it seems to be holding the symptoms at bay. She has her up and down days... but mostly she is very good and very happy. Chloe has arthritis in her legs from 2 leg operations a few years back now so it would be hard to tell although I do find she is weakening as time goes on. But for the moment, she loves her walks (will RUN out to the gate nearly everyday) is symptom free and is happy in her life. I can't ask for more than that I guess Especially when Cushings can be so devastating. She will go back for another test next week probably to see that things are still on track. I hope that your roller coaster ride can plateau out for a little while and you and Diesel can spend some well time together. It sounds like he has a happy life though, so he is in good hands and I know you will see him through this illness as best you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselWeisel Posted October 9, 2009 Author Share Posted October 9, 2009 I've been holding it together really well for months now, gave him another valium at 12:30pm today, then hour or so after he started to shake again. I just feel sick, I really hope I am doing the right thing by him, it's so hard as no vets here have ever tried treating what he has, extremely rare case. I'm so scared that he is suffering I wish the sun would come out so he could go the park, then I could see how he is feeling... Keep sending all the good vibes to him, and hope that I do the right things by him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loraine Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 (edited) Hang in there DW. Get the lad to a vet if he does not improve! It is so heartbreaking to see our loved ones in trouble that we cannot help with. Prayers for the Diesel-boy. Kelly Louise, the muscles are continually weaking, even whilst controlled with meds. I noticed with my Coco (RIP) that various parts of him became thinner - sometimes I realised that I had not noticed how skinny his little egs had become, or that the top of his head was like a tiny skull under my hand. According to my girlfriend (the Cush/Addy gal) it is not painful so much as frustrating - because it begins to restrict your normal activities. Us hoomans usually have the sense to take a breather when we are tiring - dogs are so brave they keep on keeping on. On a side note my girlfriend is off to hossy next week to have one knee operated on to help with slipping knee caps due to muscles wearing away. Her other knee will be done next year. ETA the muscles have not actually worn away, they have become too weak to hold the knee caps where they should be. Edited October 9, 2009 by Loraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 DW, if you are concerned that something is not right - then discuss it with a vet that you trust. You know Diesel better than anyone and only you know what he can tolerate, and when enough is enough. It's all about quality of his life... when I have the same worries with Chloe - of course I first consult her specialist, and then I pretend if a friend was telling me all these things about their dog, what would I say if they asked my opinion... in other words, I try to take MY emotions out and look at the situation realistically. DW, we are never ready to lose our friends. Just like I would for Chloe, I'd do anything to get her well. But if I thought for a second that she was suffering overall then I would give her her wings. Not because I will ever be ready to let her go, but because she is my very best friend on this earth - and I'd do anything to stop her from suffering... and if that means losing the one I love so much, then so be it. A piece of me will die when Chloe passes, and I don't kid myself for a second that time is not approaching - alot faster than I would have liked... but we just take one day at a time - I assess the pros and cons for her and we continue from there. I understand that diseases like this (and in your case with it affecting him neurologically) they are devastating emotionally... one day you're on a high (good day), and then tomorrow you can be deciding if today is the day you will lose your friend. It's not easy, and there's no answers... all I can say is discuss your concerns with his specialist, and think about his condition and future in terms of just HIM, as opposed to YOUR boy. I know you love him enough to do the right thing, whatever that may be - and you've fought a very good fight together, no doubt. Loraine, yes that does make sense. Chloe's face, as I said, has hollowed out alot... it's something I saw but didn't really 'acknowledge' until last week. Her legs are much weaker, which, with arthritis and her knee operations, doesn't help as she relies on those muscles alot. However, once she gets going she really is still very active... so that's a good sign for us. I will tell my parents to keep in mind that even though she is willing to walk a looong way sometimes, perhaps it's best to remind her that she's an old duck and although she'd love to mentally, her old body might not be able to do those distances anymore. Do you know of anything that can prolong the muscle weakening for a while? Or will exercise slow down the weakening? As long as it's not actually making her feel pain as such, we can just acknowledge it I guess and make changes in her care. I feel for your friend... it is such a horrid disease. When I get asked what it is and try to explain it (in terms that people will understand) it always sounds so... simple and not very dangerous. However, the reality is very challenging. Not having suffered with it myself, but just having a dog with it, makes me not want to wish this disease even on my worst enemy. Thanks Loraine for being our Cushings champion and giving us tidbits of good information we wouldn't otherwise know... and to DW... well, lots of love and hugs to you and Diesel. Talk to his specialist in depth to reassure your mind. And hang in there, I know it's tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loraine Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Loraine, yes that does make sense. Chloe's face, as I said, has hollowed out alot... it's something I saw but didn't really 'acknowledge' until last week. Her legs are much weaker, which, with arthritis and her knee operations, doesn't help as she relies on those muscles alot. However, once she gets going she really is still very active... so that's a good sign for us. I will tell my parents to keep in mind that even though she is willing to walk a looong way sometimes, perhaps it's best to remind her that she's an old duck and although she'd love to mentally, her old body might not be able to do those distances anymore. Do you know of anything that can prolong the muscle weakening for a while? Or will exercise slow down the weakening? As long as it's not actually making her feel pain as such, we can just acknowledge it I guess and make changes in her care. I feel for your friend... it is such a horrid disease. When I get asked what it is and try to explain it (in terms that people will understand) it always sounds so... simple and not very dangerous. However, the reality is very challenging. Not having suffered with it myself, but just having a dog with it, makes me not want to wish this disease even on my worst enemy. KL I don't think that there is anything for dogs or humans that strengthens those muscles affected by Cushing's. My friend was told to do pool walking so that she could push against the water, which was better than ordinary 'dry' walking. I have a feeling that walking with keep the muscles going (not build them up, but keep them mobile) but we have to stop the dogs from going on for miles. With a mini poodle it was easy for me to pick him up (he hated that I did that) and carry him for part of the distance . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselWeisel Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 KL your email made me cry so much, but it's only beacuse it's true. I cried so much last night that his ears were soaked, but he was having a lovely sleep in the bed with me. The last three days I am realizing that the time might be coming closer... this morning, he was great, I took him out with me for breakfast and he really enjoyed pottering around, he hasn't had a seizure or valium yet. But just then I drove him to the dog park and he didn't enjoy it. Maybe I should only take him out once a day, I used to bring him everywhere with me, and I've cut his excercise down by about 80 - 90%.. maybe I need to do even less. Each day goes up and down... I talk to my vet/s at least once a week and bring him in with me, it's all a guessing game with him though, noone knows. I also made the decision when we got back from QLD that he isn't spending anymore nights in the vet, he's had enough of that, and my vet agrees. I'm going to see if they think giving him less trilostane would perk him up... see if there is anything else we can try, he's sleeping in the sun right now, looking peaceful He is my closest friend, he's lived in three homes with me, been on holidays with me, been around for three boyfriends, including 3.5 with fiancee now, he's been there through everything, the most loyal, gentle dog you'd ever meet, so many people stop to pat him out and about, love that little guy sooooooo much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodle proud Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Hi DW I don't have any experience in this area but just wanted you to know that I'm praying for you and diesel. I hope you get many more happy times with him. PP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loraine Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 DW it is very easy to overdose with Trilostane. Have Diesel's appetites dropped off? if so, maybe your vet would think that a drop in the Trilostane is possible.. As Cushing's progresses I found my dog became more and more sleepy/lazy and I think that was because the muscles are just too weak. We have to remember that the disease not only weakens the muscles in the legs, it attacks all of the muscles in the body which includes the internal organs. Prayers for you and Diesel during these trying times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdog2 Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Hi DW, I know your heart's heavy at the moment and I just wanted to send you and Diesel - thinking of you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 More vibes for Diesel. If your boy has more good times then bad then I think you are doing the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzat Xolo Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 DW Sending hugs of support to both you and Diesal J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 KL your email made me cry so much, but it's only beacuse it's true. I cried so much last night that his ears were soaked, but he was having a lovely sleep in the bed with me. The last three days I am realizing that the time might be coming closer... this morning, he was great, I took him out with me for breakfast and he really enjoyed pottering around, he hasn't had a seizure or valium yet. But just then I drove him to the dog park and he didn't enjoy it. Maybe I should only take him out once a day, I used to bring him everywhere with me, and I've cut his excercise down by about 80 - 90%.. maybe I need to do even less. Each day goes up and down... I talk to my vet/s at least once a week and bring him in with me, it's all a guessing game with him though, noone knows. I also made the decision when we got back from QLD that he isn't spending anymore nights in the vet, he's had enough of that, and my vet agrees. I'm going to see if they think giving him less trilostane would perk him up... see if there is anything else we can try, he's sleeping in the sun right now, looking peacefulHe is my closest friend, he's lived in three homes with me, been on holidays with me, been around for three boyfriends, including 3.5 with fiancee now, he's been there through everything, the most loyal, gentle dog you'd ever meet, so many people stop to pat him out and about, love that little guy sooooooo much Oh DW I didn't want to make you cry I guess, going through similar experiences (although not to the same extent as you) has made me realistic about Chloe. I never wanted to think about it before, just keep pushing on. But at some point, I have to look deep within myself and say yes she WOULD go on if I asked her to, but do I want her to keep doing it for me, and my family? Unfortunately it's a really sad part of life... but we do owe it to our friends - who I agree have been there probably more than anyone else for us - to be realistic about what we can or can't do for them. I wish there was a miracle cure for Cushings and similar diseases - and I keep hoping for a miracle... but it never comes DW, the thing is... when I look back at Chloe's life, I do so proudly and can say that I did every single thing possible for her... and I can also say that she's had a good life overall. She was loved, she's been well cared for, she had everything a dog needs, she's had some really fun times - but most of all, she just belonged in our 'pack' which made her the happiest. And at the end of the day, that's all I really wanted for her or any of my dogs. To be able to look back and say I gave them a good life, and I tried to give them all that they gave me. Chloe will never really die, she will live in a very special part of my heart forever. She was the dog that changed the world for me, made me passionate about dogs, about their welfare, and about fighting the good fight for them. I owe it to her to continue that. But until her time comes, it might be worrisome and a total rollercoaster ride, however we continue to enjoy every minute we have with our very special girl... as you should with your very special boy. I have NO DOUBTS that you could also look back proudly at Diesel's life and say you gave him everything you possibly could. There can't be sadness in that my friend, it's such a wonderful thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselWeisel Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 I've just spoken to the vet again. The specialist in QLD has given me a few options to try, we're going to try him on some prednisone and take him off the trilostane. But seeing him here, I think it's the end, I rang my local vet and he can come to the house and put him to rest when we're ready. I'm giving it two days on the prednisone... unless he gets even worse. He hasn't moved from the spot he was left in this morning, and he looks like he wants to go I'm so scared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Thinking of you and Diesel. See if the other drugs perk him up. Take it one day at a time. Having palatively cared for a dog with cancer myself you can think they are near the end one day and the next day they have perked up and are not ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselWeisel Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks Puggy, I've just never seen him this bad. Last time when he went on the prednisone it perked him up almost straight away, getting the tablets this afternoon, so I'll give it a few more days to see how he goes, he won't even get up by himself today though, really bad the last 20 hours or so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teekay Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I have just spent the last hour reading about Diesel and just wanted to say what a fantastic job you have done caring for him. You will know when enough is enough. I asked on forums about my beloved Holly, who sadly we had to pts in April, and when is the 'right time'. Many people told me you will just know and when it came to it I suppose I did. It's something about the way they look at you. I dunno, I'm rambling now. Just wanted to say to you and Diesel, you will be in my thoughts and prayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I've just spoken to the vet again. The specialist in QLD has given me a few options to try, we're going to try him on some prednisone and take him off the trilostane. But seeing him here, I think it's the end, I rang my local vet and he can come to the house and put him to rest when we're ready. I'm giving it two days on the prednisone... unless he gets even worse. He hasn't moved from the spot he was left in this morning, and he looks like he wants to go I'm so scared The prednisone is used for Addisons disease is that right? I'm assuming they believe that Diesel's dose of Trilostane is too high and he has become partly Addisonian maybe? Do they recommend the testing to see what his levels are at, or have you made the call not to put him through further testing etc? It could be as simple as that the dosage of Trilostane was too high, although our specialist prefers to lower the dosage rather than take them straight off. If the Trilostane is workign too well and Diesel is becoming Addisonian, then he will be very lethargic, off his food and look quite down. It's hard to get them stable at the right level, but I would talk to the vets about a regime that evens things out rather than going from one extreme to the other (and then treating those extremes). If the Trilostane dosage is too high then perhaps he needs a much lower dosage... not sure, perhaps your situation is different. Also, talk to them about the liquid form of Trilostane if you don't already have it. It's much handier and much less waste when the dosages have to be changed consistently Give him some time, he may come good with the new meds... but yes, be realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselWeisel Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 I just wanted to say a HUGE thank you to everyone who messaged on Monday, you got Diesel and I through the worst day ever and Diesey is doing great!! I am soooo glad I hung in there. The prednisone perked him up straight away and he has been in really good spirits since. I've been enjoying every second with him, he's been giving me these looks when we're on our walks (he goes for 2 or three short walks a day now) and I know he's happy. Now I'm investigating into any other options available, as prednisone (to my understanding) is not good long term, I am trying to find out if he could try chemo (Lysodren) to try and shrink his tumor... trying to find non invasive ways (ie: things I can do at home, with only short visits to the vet, no more staying over night there) I have no idea how long he can stay happy on the prednisone for, but I am thankful for every day we have together, and will keep trying as long as he wants me too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly_Louise Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) I just wanted to say a HUGE thank you to everyone who messaged on Monday, you got Diesel and I through the worst day ever and Diesey is doing great!! I am soooo glad I hung in there. The prednisone perked him up straight away and he has been in really good spirits since. I've been enjoying every second with him, he's been giving me these looks when we're on our walks (he goes for 2 or three short walks a day now) and I know he's happy. Now I'm investigating into any other options available, as prednisone (to my understanding) is not good long term, I am trying to find out if he could try chemo (Lysodren) to try and shrink his tumor... trying to find non invasive ways (ie: things I can do at home, with only short visits to the vet, no more staying over night there) I have no idea how long he can stay happy on the prednisone for, but I am thankful for every day we have together, and will keep trying as long as he wants me too! I was of the understanding that Prednisone was used to treat Addisons disease (the opposite of Cushings) which to me (in my limited understanding) would mean that the Trilostane dose he was receiving was too high and working TOO well. For his situation, perhaps the Lysodren or the other one (don't remember the name) would be better to try and hit it at the source for him, as it appears it is the tumour that's actually giving him the grief. At least with Chloe her tumour does not affect her (too small at this stage) so we really only need to treat the symptoms of Cushings. I would investigate it - but I would also ensure that any medication you are giving him is prescribed by a specialist vet - not a normal vet. They do not understand this disease as well as specialist vets and the medication and dosages are paramount in the control of his disease and symptoms. Chloe's medication dosages changes frequently as their levels fluctuate all over the place. Too much medication will push him to become Addisonian which can be really dangerous, and too little of course and the dreaded Cushings symptoms come back. Not sure how the other drugs work though. ETA - good on you, you're doing a fabulous job. And good on Diesel for pulling through again. What a brave fellow he is. Hugs from all of us here Edited October 15, 2009 by Kelly_Louise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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