Tatsu Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 Personally, I'm very concerned by the description you have given. I would be giving Sarge his marching orders, back to his breeder.This whole situation is completely unfair to Nate and I believe it is unsafe. A friend took on a young GSD puppy, she had an older maltese and the situation you've described is very similar to their relationship. One day, the GSD aged about 7 months, turned on the maltese and killed him - my friend desperately tried to save her little dog and got him onto her lap and the GSD came after him and finished him off. All in front of my friend and her grandchild. I'm not trying to scare you but I believe this situation will only escalate as time goes on. For an 8 week old large breed puppy to display the behaviours you have described, he is not suitable as a companion for your small breed dog. Hang on, the pup has only been here for a few days. surely a period of adjustment in all parties is going to take place? Sorry but i think you're taking it a little too far, I know big/small dog households can be a challenge, but i also know that Sarge just needs the right guidance, and correction, which is what i'm asking for. He's a pup, aside from his guarding he's really only playing the same way i saw him play with his siblings, it's just that i need to know how to control the situation with a super submissive dog. I don't subscribe to the theory that Nate should be molicoddled, as Sas said dogs choose the pecking order not their humans. Nate is going to learn how to live with Sarge the same way that Sarge is going to learn some manners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) I don't subscribe to the theory that Nate should be molicoddled, as Sas said dogs choose the pecking order not their humans. Nate is going to learn how to live with Sarge the same way that Sarge is going to learn some manners. I really hope you don't see separating these two unless supervised and stopping Sarge from playing roughly as "mollycoddling" Tatsu. Nate runs a real risk of injury here and it may not be due to any ill intent on Sarge's part. One well placed foot in Nate's back in a few month's time would be enough to do serious injury. This can work, but not without a lot of management and intervention on your part. Consider also the degree of anxiety and stress you're prepared to have Nate live under on a day to day basis. Living as a giant pup's chew toy is no life for a small dog. As I said in my initial post, without a lot of careful management, Sarge has the capacity to make Nate's life a living hell. It will get worse as Sarge grows and may only really improve when Sarge settles down as a mature adult. Thats years of hard work ahead of you Tatsu. I hope for Nate's sake that you do the right thing by him. Nate deserves to be safe, have quality time with you without interference and not to be forced to defend himself from another family dog. That's not "mollycoddling" as I see it. You will not change Nate's nature. All you can do is work with your understanding of it. Unless you make space for Nate, I expect you'll see less and less of him. I've seen that happen before. Avoidance of you and Sarge may be the only coping mechanism Nate has without your help. Too many older dogs are pushed out into the shadows with the arrival of a new pup and the novelty it provides. Please don't make Nate one of them. Edited October 27, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BittyMooPeeb Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Personally, I'm very concerned by the description you have given. I would be giving Sarge his marching orders, back to his breeder.This whole situation is completely unfair to Nate and I believe it is unsafe. A friend took on a young GSD puppy, she had an older maltese and the situation you've described is very similar to their relationship. One day, the GSD aged about 7 months, turned on the maltese and killed him - my friend desperately tried to save her little dog and got him onto her lap and the GSD came after him and finished him off. All in front of my friend and her grandchild. I'm not trying to scare you but I believe this situation will only escalate as time goes on. For an 8 week old large breed puppy to display the behaviours you have described, he is not suitable as a companion for your small breed dog. Hang on, the pup has only been here for a few days. surely a period of adjustment in all parties is going to take place? Sorry but i think you're taking it a little too far, Ok, but (from what you've said) in those few days the pup has already started to 'guard' you and try to stop Nate from getting to you, so we are not talking about just needing to get to know each other and settle in. Jealous behaviour is only going to get worse the more he settles in, not better. I dont think anyones comments have gone too far. Fact is that pup will be looking for a playmate, and is unlikely to be in a position to play with Nate safely and so that Nate is happy until he is an adult, if at all. I would also reccommend that they are never together when unsupervised, and that when they are together and supervised, that Pup is on a lead and either sitting quietly or dropped on his bed, so he understands that this is how he needs to behave around Nate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Over the years I've had big dogs, Afghans, Gordon Setters, and small dogs, Miniature Pinschers, Border Terriers, and have never left them together unsupervised. As I worked during the day they were all kenneled separately and when loose in my houseyard were still run according to size as play got too hectic to have big and small together. The only time they ran together was when we went for a paddock walk as the smells, etc were too interesting for them to worry about playing much. When they were inside in the evenings everyone had their own spot (never much room left on the couch)and didn't mess around in the house. Even without any domination IMO there's way too much chance of accidental injury just through play between vastly different size dogs particularly if the older one is the smaller. A big older dog can learn to be gentle with a littlie but a big pup doesn't know it's own strength and it's hard to curb puppy exuburance (sp? that one never looks right. lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Yeah, Erik was trying that kind of thing on at 10 weeks. My older dog is bigger, though, and has a thick coat. He won't even growl at Erik, though. Erik is now 18 weeks old and continues to do whatever he pleases to Kivi. At least, he tries to. Kivi has some pretty effective non-confrontational ways to handle Erik, but they wouldn't work so well if Erik was bigger than Kivi. I just look out for my boys. It's no big deal to distract one of them if they are getting too rowdy or want to argue over something they both want. It's not hard to minimise situations that could lead to conflict or the development of behaviour you actually don't want in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loulouB Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 When i brought home my 8 week old puppy, for the first month or maybe more, my submissive 2 year old dog, would just lie on her back and submit to the tiny & aggressively playful puppy. I was a bit worried about it, because the puppy really seemed to believe she was boss! But as it turns out, i think my older dog was just giving the puppy a bit of a grace period, because then she slowly started laying down the law a bit more over time, and now at 6 months old, the puppy knows her place is bottom of the pack. I tried to help establish the pecking order, by always feeding my older dog first, patting first etc. My dogs are similar-sized breeds though. Seeing as your puppy is going to be much bigger than your older dog, it may be a good idea like people have been suggesting, to try and help the situtation along a bit yourself, to help teach puppy his place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 We can all teach our dogs the correct behaviour but is it fair to curtail the natural energetic playing of a young pup? They love to bounce, run, leap, roll around etc. the only way I'd let a large breed pup with an older small breed is after the pup is totally worn out and they are inside where it's a 'no stoopids' time. Even bringing a young pup in with the same breed/size I carefully surpervise the interaction for some time as some pups are 'over-the-top' and don't heed a warning from the older dog. I don't practice any of the 'pecking order' thing, I'm the boss and who I pat/feed/etc first is my choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 We can all teach our dogs the correct behaviour but is it fair to curtail the natural energetic playing of a young pup? They love to bounce, run, leap, roll around etc. That's a good point, and somewhere along the line there's going to need to be a lot of time spent with suitable size-appropriate pups and other dogs, preferably in a controlled environment under the supervision of a competent professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I stand by my comments. I am not going over the top as you suggest, you are not being vigilant enough - you have described what I know to be potentially life threatening problems for Nate. You might be happier for now if you keep thinking "she'll be right mate", but it will be Nate that pays the price for your rose tinted glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) No no no, you have misunderstood what i have said guys... the 'over the top' part i was referring to was when dogmad said he/she would be giving Sarge his marching orders! This is not the first time i've had a pup/dog combo. The two are never left alone unsupervised, and that was NOT what i was referring to as Mollycoddling. I think i shall stick to getting advice from experts. Thanks for your time. ...and i should think some people should stick to giving FACTS not opinions when you don't know how i run my household dogmad. Edited October 28, 2009 by Tatsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 ...and i should think some people should stick to giving FACTS not opinions when you don't know how i run my household dogmad. :flame: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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