Selling Dogs.

[slk]

I dont' understand it. I don't understand people who sell older dogs, when they need rehoming.

Just because someone has $500 or $1000 to spend on an older dog, does that make it a better home? If someone gives a dog a home and doesn't pay a cent for it, does it make it a worse home?

Sometimes, I see ads for older dogs (around 3+) needing new homes for various reasons (moving, divorce, lifestyle change) and people want so much money for these dogs. I just see it as greedy.

For me, the dogs interest comes first, not how much I can make on it.

Years ago, we had a dog that needed to be rehomed because of allergies in the family. We took our time, made sure the dog went to a good home where they would be part of the family, loved - didn't even dream of asking money for him.

Sorry - I'm just so annoyed. I've just come back from the shops and someone is advertising a 7 year old pug for $700 ??!! Blatant greed to me.

[SpikesPuppy]

IMO I would NEVER advertise a dog as free or cheap. This is just asking for trouble.

However, I would not be adverse to advertising the dog at a certain price and then, once vetting the prospective owner, giving the dog to them or for the the cost of desexing (if I were rehoming a retired pedigree), or free.

Edited January 28, 2010 by SpikesPuppy

[Aziah]

If we decide to rehome an older dog it it generally for the cost of spay/neuter.

Older puppies however are generally sold for the normal puppy purchase price.

I agree with SP - I'd never advertise a dog for no cost at all...

[slk]

I didn't think of the advertising side. When we rehomed it was done via word of mouth to a friend of a friend.

I would rather see ad's as 'price to be negotiated' or something along those lines.

But it happens here too - in the older dog sections some older dogs, often over 1, which have been kept for the ring and not worked out are sold pretty much for puppy prices.

Ah well, each to their own.

[Aziah]

I didn't think of the advertising side. When we rehomed it was done via word of mouth to a friend of a friend.

I would rather see ad's as 'price to be negotiated' or something along those lines.

But it happens here too - in the older dog sections some older dogs, often over 1, which have been kept for the ring and not worked out are sold pretty much for puppy prices.

Ah well, each to their own.

Sorry but I don't see what your vice is with the part bolded above...those older puppies have had even more work put into them than your average 8 week old and are most likely house trained (if not coming from a kennel environment) and very well mannered, full vaccinated etc.

You're right - each to their own

Edited January 28, 2010 by Aziah

[SpikesPuppy]

I didn't think of the advertising side. When we rehomed it was done via word of mouth to a friend of a friend.

I would rather see ad's as 'price to be negotiated' or something along those lines.

But it happens here too - in the older dog sections some older dogs, often over 1, which have been kept for the ring and not worked out are sold pretty much for puppy prices.

Ah well, each to their own.

Have you ever shown a dog? The amount of effort that any ethical breeder puts into rearing, training and showing a puppy is incredible. IMO anyone who gets a young 'failed' showdog at puppy price is getting a bloody bargain!! In many cases the dog will be crate trained, lead trained, impeccably handled & socialised, toilet trained, have at the very least basic manners, will be trained to stand for grooming etc. Not to mention the cost the breeder has borne to raise the pup on a premium diet, vaccinations, worming, heartworm treatment etc.

Price to be negotiated is another no-no in advertising for me- you get the idiots who just want a cheap pet hassling you. IF I were advertising an older dog I would either put the price I wanted or say Price on Application.

[ellz]

Actually, anybody who gets an older "retired" dog from a breeder is on a good wicket too. Chances are that dog has been fed premium food for its entire life so is in very good health. It has probably been health tested, had annual eye examinations (if from a breed that requires them), has had DNA testing for the genetic defects that are prevalent in whatever breed. Is leadtrained, crate trained, if not housebroken. Accustomed to car travel. Not a chewer, escapee or have undiscovered aggression issues, etc etc etc. I could go on, but I think you get the gist.

I would rather either not see a price stated, or have P.O.A. Allowing people to "negotiate" is akin to asking every passing nutter to ring your doorbell. It is bad enough when people try to "haggle" over a stated price, let alone give them an invitation.

[Aziah]

slk - just so I can attempt to understand where you're coming from, can you tell me...

* are you a pet owner, or do you exhibit/breed

* do you know the amount of work that goes in to raising a show dog up to young adulthood entails

* why do you feel that charging (for a young adult) the same as young puppy is 'greedy'

I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from

Edited January 28, 2010 by Aziah

[Snout Girl]

dont breeders who rehome 'retired' showdogs get upset that they are losing their family members?

arent we always saying dogs should be treated as one of the family, and that puppies should only go to the best of forever homes where they will be treated as such?

doesnt this go for older dogs who may have finished their professional career? arent they still family members?

its a genuine question- I would be terribly upset to rehome a pet at 5,6 whatever age and wondered if breeders feel the same? it must be upsetting

Edited January 28, 2010 by bertandsally

[Cosmolo]

Why shouldn't a dog have a value?

[Ashanali]

I've found better homes for dogs that were advertised as 'give aways' than I have when pups were sold for $700.

I find that because so many people enquire about the dogs, I get premium choice of owner - so far not a single 'give away' has been returned to me.

Sunni was returned to me. She was sold at 13 months for just $200 and came back to me 6 months later. I can tell you right now that if she was a 'give away' back then, I would have had a plethora of awesome homes to choose from to send her to and without a doubt, she would not have ended up back with me. (which in the long run, I'm happy she came back. )

Just another spin on it...

[ellz]

dont breeders who rehome 'retired' showdogs get upset that they are losing their family members?

arent we always saying dogs should be treated as one of the family, and that puppies should only go to the best of forever homes where they will be treated as such?

doesnt this go for older dogs who may have finished their professional career? arent they still family members?

its a genuine question- I would be terribly upset to rehome a pet at 5,6 whatever age and wondered if breeders feel the same? it must be upsetting

Yes, we are human.

BUT, the reality is that not every dog is happy in a large "pack" environment and sometimes dogs need more one-on-one than a particular situation is able to give them.

And not all dogs ARE family members. Some dogs are quite happy living in a kennel. Some dogs live in a kennel but deserve a cushy life when their breeding/show days are over. There is only so much room on a couch. Not every breeder/exhibitor has dogs inside as family pets. For some, their hobby whilst it is a "lifestyle" as well, doesn't extend to having indoor animals, dogs on the bed and couch or other things that I, and you, and many others find quite normal and would be lost without. But that is their choice and I respect that.

For my part, I have 6 adult dogs, 1 American Cocker puppy and 6 Staffordshire Bull Terrier puppies (but will only be keeping 2 of those). This is a comfortable number for me to maintain and spend time with. I have recently rehomed two older dogs. Both of whom were incredibly sweet dogs and I loved them both dearly but neither were coping with the lifestyle here and with the full-on attention from the other dogs.

I was fortunate that both have gone to the same home, albeit a few months apart and the second was an unexpected placement in that home and really just a trial because he suffers badly from separation anxiety and needs CONSTANT company or he howls, barks and scratches himself stupid from stress.

This is a paste from an email I received from his new family just the other day....

<paste>thanks you for letting us have CAl. He is a delight and so at home, especially with Ali organising him. We changed his name as Cal was causing some bad memories coming to the fore, we could see his stress level rise at this name, so as he is Ali's chum, that is his name, Chum.

He eats, sleeps and does everything else to order!

He and John are great mates, and now he has successfully replaced Annie in John's life so all is well. Thanks once again for bringing him to us. He is a great Chum.

<end paste>

I really searched my soul before I discussed him with his new family but now I'm very glad that I did. He is happier there than he ever could have been here. It is a win-win all around.

[MsBex]

I didn't think of the advertising side. When we rehomed it was done via word of mouth to a friend of a friend.

I would rather see ad's as 'price to be negotiated' or something along those lines.

But it happens here too - in the older dog sections some older dogs, often over 1, which have been kept for the ring and not worked out are sold pretty much for puppy prices.

Ah well, each to their own.

As a pet owner I can see where slk is coming from in a way. My last SBT was an 18mo failed show dog, and while he may have been socialised perfectly well for the environment he was living in, that wasn't the case for my household.

That's one of the benefits of getting a puppy isn't it? That they can become a perfect fit for your home and routinues?

I would expect that they wouldn't cost as much as they would have sold as a puppy. IMO any money the breeder/shower would have spent on the dog would be because they were raising a show dog, not a pet, and comes with keeping a dog in the home. Not saying the dog doesn't have value, and would have many attributes a puppy may not have, in fact I intend my next dog to be a mature dog.

[ellz]

IMO any money the breeder/shower would have spent on the dog would be because they were raising a show dog, not a pet, and comes with keeping a dog in the home.

That would depend entirely upon the breeder/exhibitor. For my part, my dogs are pets first and show dogs second. I would rather have happy, healthy, temperamentally sound pets that I can take to a dog show than have show dogs that I can't live with.

[Aziah]

IMO any money the breeder/shower would have spent on the dog would be because they were raising a show dog, not a pet, and comes with keeping a dog in the home.

That would depend entirely upon the breeder/exhibitor. For my part, my dogs are pets first and show dogs second. I would rather have happy, healthy, temperamentally sound pets that I can take to a dog show than have show dogs that I can't live with.

+1

[MsBex]

Have you ever shown a dog? The amount of effort that any ethical breeder puts into rearing, training and showing a puppy is incredible. IMO anyone who gets a young 'failed' showdog at puppy price is getting a bloody bargain!! In many cases the dog will be crate trained, lead trained, impeccably handled & socialised, toilet trained, have at the very least basic manners, will be trained to stand for grooming etc. Not to mention the cost the breeder has borne to raise the pup on a premium diet, vaccinations, worming, heartworm treatment etc.

Ellz, I was replying more to this comment from SpikesPuppy as it seemed to imply that the purchaser should be, if not liable then grateful to pay full price, for the costs the breeder spent on the dog up to the point they decided to rehome it.

[wildairbc]

Why is putting a price on an older dog any different from putting a price on a puppy? We do "own" dogs and as property, they have a value.

Frankly, I feel that some "pet" owners go way too far with their "adoptions' and "mummy and daddy" talk. It is EXACTLY this sort of thinking that may well end pet ownership for all of us. "Guardians" can be deemed unfit on the flimsiest of evidence. Ownership of property is way more difficult for someone to contest.

This doesn't mean that I don't love my dogs as individuals and let them pretty much rule my life. I do and they do. I also consider them "property", for their own sake and safety. Animals in and of themselves have no rights in a human society except those we wish to grant them. Laws against cruelty do not give them "rights". With "rights" come responsibilities and dogs do not have responsibility, as is often pointed out in our "stupid owner" vents.

As already stated, most breeders have to draw the line somewhere on numbers. But in order to have a successful breeding program, you must breed! When Real Breeders breed, it is with the intent to keep something to carry on with. How many times can we do that without becoming overwhelmed in a hurry? We just can't catch a break-we are wrong to produce puppies just to sell,we are wrong to sell older dogs, and we are wrong to "hoard" the oldies.

Breeders must do what is best for each particular dog. I have placed young show dogs with co-owners, running the risk that I will never see them again, because I knew they would be most happy in a home with only one or two dogs. I have placed dogs with people I don't particularly like, because I knew those people gave a good home to a dog.

Geez, we aren't shoving these dogs out the door heartlessly. Breeders' hearts are broken in more ways than you can imagine. But we keep on, most of us don't even know why. Without us, this would all be moot.

Knowing that our dogs, each and every one, are in the best possible home, is our only solace sometimes. I feel the loss keenly, but I know they are happier and that is all I am after. I can sleep at night just fine. But if I know that one of mine IS being abused after all of my best efforts? Watch out.

[Snout Girl]

Why is putting a price on an older dog any different from putting a price on a puppy? We do "own" dogs and as property, they have a value.

Frankly, I feel that some "pet" owners go way too far with their "adoptions' and "mummy and daddy" talk. It is EXACTLY this sort of thinking that may well end pet ownership for all of us. "Guardians" can be deemed unfit on the flimsiest of evidence. Ownership of property is way more difficult for someone to contest.

This doesn't mean that I don't love my dogs as individuals and let them pretty much rule my life. I do and they do. I also consider them "property", for their own sake and safety. Animals in and of themselves have no rights in a human society except those we wish to grant them. Laws against cruelty do not give them "rights". With "rights" come responsibilities and dogs do not have responsibility, as is often pointed out in our "stupid owner" vents.

As already stated, most breeders have to draw the line somewhere on numbers. But in order to have a successful breeding program, you must breed! When Real Breeders breed, it is with the intent to keep something to carry on with. How many times can we do that without becoming overwhelmed in a hurry? We just can't catch a break-we are wrong to produce puppies just to sell,we are wrong to sell older dogs, and we are wrong to "hoard" the oldies.

Breeders must do what is best for each particular dog. I have placed young show dogs with co-owners, running the risk that I will never see them again, because I knew they would be most happy in a home with only one or two dogs. I have placed dogs with people I don't particularly like, because I knew those people gave a good home to a dog.

Geez, we aren't shoving these dogs out the door heartlessly. Breeders' hearts are broken in more ways than you can imagine. But we keep on, most of us don't even know why. Without us, this would all be moot.

Knowing that our dogs, each and every one, are in the best possible home, is our only solace sometimes. I feel the loss keenly, but I know they are happier and that is all I am after. I can sleep at night just fine. But if I know that one of mine IS being abused after all of my best efforts? Watch out.

hi wildairbc

as i stated in my post, it was a genuine question, i was not insinuating anything, it was something I have no experience in and wanted another point of view.

i was in no way suggesting breeders dont care for their dogs. nowhere was that written in my post.

(edited because i dont know how to type).

Edited January 28, 2010 by bertandsally

[Christina]

In answer to Does paying make a better home NO but

It does give some safeguard when going to a stranger no matter how much it seems like a great home. When its a free give away I have heard of people who have had a fancy for a dog, or other animal, they can't afford & haven't researched, say all the right things, off it goes & they then dump it in the pond or pass the poor animal on if all is not roses.

At least if a nominal fee is requested they are more likely to return it for their money back. If the owner places no value on it neither do they in some cases.

I have only placed 2 older dogs, aged 1 & 2 & yes it was heartbreaking, I cried when I got home. Visited the new homes, desexed etc & got feedback & a visit. Wonderful but while I would not want to do it often breeding is different & it is hard to progress as there are only so many dogs one can keep & care for so a good pet home can be better for the dog, if the breeder is inclined to it for sensible reasons.

If you don't like the cost you don't have to buy, your choice but I would never give an animal away to someone I did not know.

People are not always as they appear, especially when they want something.

[Cleo's Corgwyn]

I got my girl as an 18 month old ex show dog. I went looking for a dog with potential for obedience and agility, and she's everything I could have asked for. She's way better socialised than I'm sure I could have managed if I'd had her as a puppy, with people and all kinds of dogs. I paid $400 for her, which I considered a very fair price. The breeder I got her from knew that she had a lot of potential, and would enjoy being busy and mentally stimulated, and I'm eternally grateful that she decided to give me the chance to take this girl into the next stage of her performance career, after retiring her from the show ring. She did what she believed was best for the dog, no matter how much she loved her.

Edited January 28, 2010 by CleoJ