Poodle Problems Post Rescue

[lucylotto]

My friend adopted a female standard poodle from the pound 1 month ago. Friend has been home with her ever since except for the occasional shopping trip and outing.

This dog is scared and skittish. She moves away if approached nearly every time. She 'tolerates' being patted, she won't come to you, tail down,most of time, she hangs on to her wee and poo to the point of total capacity full and even when walked upon waking can be taken back inside the home after x2 walks up and down the street without weeing. She won't eat and my friend has tried everything. She is very skinny, but has gained some weight since her release.

The positives are: she travels well in the car, walks well on lead (runs away and is scared of lead but once is on is OK), likes cats (friend has x2), is fine with other dogs, she does follow my friend around the house and gives her the occasional nudge (friend says it reminds her of when she was nudged by a shark)

The main problem for my friend right now is that when she does leave the dog at home she barks and howls the entire time she is away. It is a problem with the neighbours and my friend will have to go back to work as soon as she can find new employment. She wants to have dog settled by then. I have told her about bark collars but she also needs to know what she should be doing to rehabilitate this dog.

My friend finally felt able to have another dog and was determined to 'rescue' a dog but I can see her angst at not knowing what to do to help her new friend.

There is no spare $ for behavioural consult so I thought I'd ask on DOL as so many here have had experience with rescue and problems. Any suggestions on how to deal with this poor soul would be so welcome.

Edited February 20, 2010 by lucylotto

[megan_]

i) Let go off the fact that (you think) she has been abused. Many dogs who are poorly socialised act like they have been abused - because the world is a scary place to them. Feeling sorry for her won't help her - it will make things wworse.

ii) Give her space - ignore her totally and let her get curious about your friend, rather than trying to foist affection on her. She doesn't like pats, so don't pat her.

iii) I have an extremely fearful dog who was abused in the past (breeding bitch on a puppy farm - non name, no walks, lived in a cage) . Seeing a behaviourist changed both of our lives for the better. Six months ago she would hide under the decking for hours if someone came over to visit (and ignored her totally). She wouldn't let me put on a leash and would run away in terror. She would hyperventilate and shake in the car.

Tomorrow, she will "sit" her elementary "exam" - she passed foundation training last year. She loves her walks and will accept pats from strangers. She is happy to stay in the house when I have friends and family over. She is now a happy little canine citizen. She still has issues (she doesn't like it when strangers pay her attention), but they are all manageable and getting better with time.

Even though your friend doesn't have the $ to see a professional, if she's going to keep this dog she'll need to sooner or later (I had Lucy for about 5 months before I saw someone because she was too afraid to even be in the same room as a behaviourist). If she has to live off beans and pumpkin soup for a month it would be well worth it.

iv) Teach her some simple tricks (eg targeting your hand with her nose) to help build her confidence

v) Set clear boundaries and let her know who is leader. By doing this, she will know that your friend is in charge and will take care of things - there is no need for her to fret any more. This was the hardest thing for me! I wanted to shower my dog with love and kisses - but that is not what she needed. She needed a strong, calm, confident leader.

Good luck to your friend. It is a hard road to travel down, but there are many lessons and small wins along the way.

[poodlefan]

LL:

I have told her about bark collars but she also needs to know what she should be doing to rehabilitate this dog.

She should not be dealing with separation issues and stress by using an aversive collar.

She needs experienced help. If she can't afford it then I hope the pro's here on the forum can advise but that's challenging to do without seeing the dog.

The dog may not have been abused. It may have been poorly socialised and have poor temperament (timid, fearful etc).

I would recommend confidence and team building exercise like obedience training and eventually perhaps agility. Clubs are cheap to join and she may be able to get some practical help with the dog.

As already advised, she needs to give the dog some space, to be confident in dealing with it and to establish clear and consistent guidelines.

Her experience is why I do not recommend novice dog owners source rescue dogs direct from pounds.

I sure hope she can come up with the funds to have the dog regularly professionally groomed.

Edited February 20, 2010 by poodlefan

[persephone]

OK- what is the known history of this dog?

What abuse took place before your friend rescued it?

if you know what the abuse was- it may make it easier to help heal...

It almost sounds as if the dog was a kennelled dog... and is very undersocialised, and missing having other dogs around The dog may have only ever toileted on one substrate- maybe concrete...and so hangs on, waiting for the seclusion and security of its yard?

By 'walking well on lead' do you mean she is responsive to commands, not distracted by things? or do you just mean she walks along ,not looking at anything, and not pulling?

Poor dog sounds very 'out of her element' and uncertain

Has she been vet checked and found to be OK? No teeth/ mouth/throat trouble which may affect her eating?

What food has been tried so far?

Oh, and ...

NO WAY would I suggest using a no bark collar on a dog which is stressed and anxious

[persephone]

]Her experience is why I do not recommend novice dog owners source rescue dogs direct from pounds.

Edited February 20, 2010 by persephone

[lucylotto]

This is all very helpful, thankyou all for you kind responses.

I will definitely be telling her to forget the bark collar!

Yes, we are assuming she has been physically abused because she cringes and shies away when people go to pat her on head or back . We dont know for real tho. The abuse may be just neglect then combined with a fearful mature as suggested.

I will advise her re behaviourist which would be my first line but I am not in her financial shoes.

She thought she was doing a good deed by rescuing. I was searching rescue sites for her as well. It is interesting that when I talk to people, my friend included, they do not understand the difference between rescue sites and pounds or what rescue/fosterers do. She wanted a poodle if at all possible (but not

She saw her and fell in love and then spent the best part of the week before she was allowed to take her home travelling all the way out to the pound and spending time with her so she would know her by the time she could leave the pound.

She has tried tin food, chicken necks, fresh chicken, cooked chicken, beef, bones, pigs ears, kibble of a couple diff varieties are a few of the things she has told me.

The dog came home same day as being desexed and friend was told dog was pregnant prior to desexing.

She has since been to her own vet and told dog is in good health apart from weight.

She has clipped her by hand gradually and bathed her etc. She lets her do all this grooming stuff. Dog today was quite happy for me to clean her eyes for her.

When I say she walks well on lead, I do mean she doesn't pull. She just walks beside or behind and is not distracted by things but if another dog comes from behind unexpectedly she gets skittish and tries to flee. Otherwise fine.

I will pass all advice on to my friend.

Edited February 20, 2010 by lucylotto

[poodlefan]

LL:

She thought she was doing a good deed by rescuing.

And she did. It's temperament testing and dealing with issues that I think is best left to experienced rescuers.

There's a step she can take before spending $$$ on a behaviourist. A decent trainer may be able to give her a lot of help with this dog. If you can give her general area, someone may be able to recommend someone good.

If you try to pat my poodles on the head they will shy away from it. They haven't been abused - they just don't like it.

Edited February 20, 2010 by poodlefan

[lucylotto]

LL:

She thought she was doing a good deed by rescuing.

And she did. It's temperament testing and dealing with issues that I think is best left to experienced rescuers.

There's a step she can take before spending $$$ on a behaviourist. A decent trainer may be able to give her a lot of help with this dog. If you can give her general area, someone may be able to recommend someone good.

If you try to pat my poodles on the head they will shy away from it. They haven't been abused - they just don't like it.

THanks PF, she lives in between Wollongong and Sutherland Shire so either Wollongong or South Syd would be good, if anyone knows that would be fantastic.

[persephone]

I think, re food- choose one appetising food- and just offer that a couple of times a day. put it down - pick up bowl after 15 minutes.

NO treats .

Your friend really does need to get some real life professional help- someone recommended . She may have a big job ahead of her , and extra help will be a godsend.

[spottychick]

Hey Lucy

Lots of people in here have more experience than me so I can only tell you what worked with my fella that I adopted a few weeks ago.

He was also very skittish when I got him and bit me a couple of times when I touched him and he was attacking my other dog. He was quite the lunatic really.

I started by not doing any of the things I did that caused him to bite me or caused him to freak out. Mostly that was around his bed. He clearly needed to be left alone when he was in his bed, so I did. He also didn't like having his back legs touched so I didn't do that either (although now I can touch the top muscle of his back legs with no problems)

Secondly, I started doing the TOT (Triangle of Temptation) with him. I can't recommend this enough! Before I started this I had enormous trouble getting his attention but now he looks at my eyes often to see what I want him to do. With your friends dog they will need to sort out the food drive issue first tho because it depends on them wanting their food to work. I have read many times in here and on other training sites, there are practically no dogs who don't want food. You just got to get them hungry enough. That makes sense to me.

One of the things the TOT has done is taught my dog not to cry when he's tied up or when I leave the house. He's better at this now than my other dog who I've had for years

I agree with Persephone, they should just offer one kind of nice food and if it's refused after a few minutes put it away again. Eventually she will be hungry enough to eat it.

Generally, I've tried to keep things very calm and not make too big a fuss of him. I've let him come to me for pats, cuddles etc rather then push them on to him and I talk to him in a happy voice a lot. In fact I used my voice to "pat" him rather than physically patting him. I don't baby him at all but he gets lots of love. He also doesn't get any food or treats without having to do something first, even if it's just sit or walk next to me.

He has stopped being so skittish and is even coping with thunderstorms well - something that used to terrify him. And now he lets me pat him in his bed (still very gently and cautiously) and jumps up onto my bed in the morning for cuddles.

Oh and out of interest, he wouldnt wee or anything on walks either for the first few weeks. Now he does. I'm sure that's just him feeling secure and confident now.

Your friends dog has some great positives!

[lucylotto]

Hey Lucy

Lots of people in here have more experience than me so I can only tell you what worked with my fella that I adopted a few weeks ago.

He was also very skittish when I got him and bit me a couple of times when I touched him and he was attacking my other dog. He was quite the lunatic really.

I started by not doing any of the things I did that caused him to bite me or caused him to freak out. Mostly that was around his bed. He clearly needed to be left alone when he was in his bed, so I did. He also didn't like having his back legs touched so I didn't do that either (although now I can touch the top muscle of his back legs with no problems)

Secondly, I started doing the TOT (Triangle of Temptation) with him. I can't recommend this enough! Before I started this I had enormous trouble getting his attention but now he looks at my eyes often to see what I want him to do. With your friends dog they will need to sort out the food drive issue first tho because it depends on them wanting their food to work. I have read many times in here and on other training sites, there are practically no dogs who don't want food. You just got to get them hungry enough. That makes sense to me.

One of the things the TOT has done is taught my dog not to cry when he's tied up or when I leave the house. He's better at this now than my other dog who I've had for years

I agree with Persephone, they should just offer one kind of nice food and if it's refused after a few minutes put it away again. Eventually she will be hungry enough to eat it.

Generally, I've tried to keep things very calm and not make too big a fuss of him. I've let him come to me for pats, cuddles etc rather then push them on to him and I talk to him in a happy voice a lot. In fact I used my voice to "pat" him rather than physically patting him. I don't baby him at all but he gets lots of love. He also doesn't get any food or treats without having to do something first, even if it's just sit or walk next to me.

He has stopped being so skittish and is even coping with thunderstorms well - something that used to terrify him. And now he lets me pat him in his bed (still very gently and cautiously) and jumps up onto my bed in the morning for cuddles.

Oh and out of interest, he wouldnt wee or anything on walks either for the first few weeks. Now he does. I'm sure that's just him feeling secure and confident now.

Your friends dog has some great positives!

Thanks spottychick.

I have given my friend all responses thus far and when she came home last night (I was dog sitting for her so she could go to a wedding) I saw her dog respond to her return with tail wagging and a was a calmer dog. Dog took herself outside to my yard for a drink and wee. I think this will be a long process and I have suggested she needs some professional advice. Dog needs time to learn and trust and perhaps forget and I feel there are many positives.