Black Staffy Pups

[ellz]

My memory isn't always good but I know that the couple I saw were darker than that puppy, which was what had me asking the questions in the first place. They were very dark, dark enough that Wendye actually carried them outside to see what colour they were in the normal daylight.

But, be that as it may, I don't think I've said here that they ARE born black.....just that they can be very dark and almost look black. And as I said, I have seen that personally....what others have seen is their own experience (and the photos are great...I'd forgotten how cute Afghan babies are).

When I worked at Calahorra I was fortunate enough to have experienced many whelpings and reared and trained many puppies of various ages in both Afghans and Whippets. That's an experience in itself!

[Lowenhart]

My memory isn't always good but I know that the couple I saw were darker than that puppy, which was what had me asking the questions in the first place. They were very dark, dark enough that Wendye actually carried them outside to see what colour they were in the normal daylight.

But, be that as it may, I don't think I've said here that they ARE born black.....just that they can be very dark and almost look black. And as I said, I have seen that personally....what others have seen is their own experience (and the photos are great...I'd forgotten how cute Afghan babies are).

When I worked at Calahorra I was fortunate enough to have experienced many whelpings and reared and trained many puppies of various ages in both Afghans and Whippets. That's an experience in itself!

I just wanted to show you the colour of a "born blue" Afghan. :D

You said earlier "A blue Afghan will invariably begin life looking like a black and "fade" as it grows." and in some instances there ARE black dogs that go blue around 12 months to 4 years, the greying gene at work! My darling old boy went blue, though he was jet black at birth. He ended up black again at the end. However there are "born blue" Afghans who are distinctly blue at birth. These "born blue" dogs point to a third allele responsible for the blue/grey in dogs (not counting merling).

Yes, Afghan puppies are gorgeous, noisy hard work! I can only imagine what working at Calahorra would be like.

[ellz]

Busy....very, very busy!

On the subject of "black" Staffords....I found some photos today, they are the "blackest" dogs that I have had.....but if you tipped them both upside down, they both had one single brindle stripe inside their left back leg.

Am Ch DayDream Love And Rockets (Imp USA)

As a baby.....

And at 3.

And his "lookalike" daughter, Ellz Tattoo You

As a baby......

And at nearly 10 years of age....

[Partipaws]

sorry completely off topic - but I am now very currious - colour genetics interest me greatly!!! I had no idea that black staffs are in fact very dark brindles and all that makes sense now - But what about blues - why if you have to have the black first to get blue does the blue still come out pretty solid when the dog is not really a solid black in the first place!! I get it a little but thought it be interesting to find out more!!!

I get that the brindle markings would also be diluted - has there been brindle blues - lol - sorry for all the silly questions - you can't learn if you do not ask ... also does the dilute gene work on the brindle rather then the black - would that not be two different genes???

ouch my head hurts!!! ;)

sorry to be a pain, but I really am interested in knowing...

jess

[Sandra777]

But what about blues - why if you have to have the black first to get blue does the blue still come out pretty solid when the dog is not really a solid black in the first place!! I get it a little but thought it be interesting to find out more!!!

Blues are dilute brindles. How many solid blues have you personally seen?

A lot get advertised as "solid" but these are often the same people who advertise "english staffies" so their perception of reality is perhaps best taken with a grain of salt

I've seen maybe 25 or 30 blues and even though I don't recall having ever gone over any except for one with a fine tooth comb only two looked like they might be considered "solid" blue from a distance of a metre or so. If you look at the same number of black brindles from the same distance you'd probably find the same percentage could be considered "solid" black.

ETA: and because "solid" blue is considered more desireable by some the number will probably increase - because if you consistently mate non or lightly striped brindles together you are consistently choosing for lack of stripes - same as if you deliberately chose the darkest black brindles and mated them together.

As an aside: some black black-brindles are actually tan patterned which means they will have brindle marking on their legs, cheeks, vent and a solid black body. Combine this with the really intense lack of stripes and you can get a dog which is black with a couple of coloured hairs sometimes only on one or two feet (usually a couple of hairs on all the tan points though) These are REALLY hard to see and are actually way more common than many would believe.

My assumption would be that a black-and-brindle marked tan point with the dilute gene may only have one or two fawn hairs on each leg for example.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Sandra777

[Partipaws]

Good O I was on the right track - LOL

"Blues are dilute brindles. How many solid blues have you personally seen?"

In answer to that I personally admit to not knowing much about the breed - I have admired 1 or 2 blues but in admiring the colour my lack of knowledge meant that my eye was not trained to look whether it were solid or not - lol

I did not even know a black did not exist in the breed - they are in fact black brindles with either excessicve brindling or black and tan brindle as you have also mentioned - love this forum - you learn something new every day :D

Poms on the other hand are "solid" blue deriving from black with the dilute gene present so I was unsure about how it would work with the brindle and staffy, poms can be brindle but the likely hood of having both to do a mating is highly unlikely - I think there is only one or 2 brindle poms in Australia and not many blues either, it be interesting to see the outcome but I don't see it happening anytime soon - very fascinating though and thank you so much for explaining it to me!!!

Thank you Sandra777 for your time and information - appreciate it a lot :cool:

sorry everyone for taking up some time and space on here - just wanted to ask a little question

But what about blues - why if you have to have the black first to get blue does the blue still come out pretty solid when the dog is not really a solid black in the first place!! I get it a little but thought it be interesting to find out more!!!

Blues are dilute brindles. How many solid blues have you personally seen?

A lot get advertised as "solid" but these are often the same people who advertise "english staffies" so their perception of reality is perhaps best taken with a grain of salt

I've seen maybe 25 or 30 blues and even though I don't recall having ever gone over any except for one with a fine tooth comb only two looked like they might be considered "solid" blue from a distance of a metre or so. If you look at the same number of black brindles from the same distance you'd probably find the same percentage could be considered "solid" black.

ETA: and because "solid" blue is considered more desireable by some the number will probably increase - because if you consistently mate non or lightly striped brindles together you are consistently choosing for lack of stripes - same as if you deliberately chose the darkest black brindles and mated them together.

As an aside: some black black-brindles are actually tan patterned which means they will have brindle marking on their legs, cheeks, vent and a solid black body. Combine this with the really intense lack of stripes and you can get a dog which is black with a couple of coloured hairs sometimes only on one or two feet (usually a couple of hairs on all the tan points though) These are REALLY hard to see and are actually way more common than many would believe.

My assumption would be that a black-and-brindle marked tan point with the dilute gene may only have one or two fawn hairs on each leg for example.

Edited April 30, 2010 by Partipaws