Alternative Diet To Barf

[bommy]

Okay I have been an avid advocate of BARF for quite a while, but now due to Molly having a high titre of Neospora & her recent op which has given several lumps to be biopsied for confirmation, the Professor & the specialist we & the vet are conferring with have bot insisted we stop feeding BARF or any RAW meats & go to cooked or a high quality drymix. Now my vet has refused to recommend a product telling me to research around & see what I feel is the best & then he will source it for me if I cant. So I am looking for suggestions, I am happy to cook all my meals for the babies but if there is someone out there that has knowledge of an organic quality kibble I would like to know so as I can research it. BTW pricing is not an issue.

Thanks

Jacqui

[tianakaesha]

Kibble wise, I have heard that Eagle Pack is good - http://www.eaglepack.com/

Edited to add:

Green Pet Natural Pet Food Might be worth looking at (I just grabbed the link - not sure how valuable it is)

Edited January 14, 2005 by TianaKaeSha

[Toohey]

Have a look here as well

Balance Pet foods. (Aakyda)

[bommy]

Thanks guys, now to find sometime to sit down & compare.

Jacqui

[aatainc]

I would be checking with multiple vets adn textbooks about Neospora. I would suspect that lots of dogs have a high titre for it without suffering from any side effects. I'm not really sure, but until i found a causal link between this spore and any actual disease in your dog I wouldn't change.

[Nadia]

An Overview of Neospora Caninum and Raw Food Diets

Larry A. Bernstein, VMD

Natural Holistic Pet Care

Miami, Florida

January 21, 1998

There has been a great deal of activity on lists and the internet concerning an organism call Neospora Caninum and its possible relation to canine encephalitis, myocarditis and paralysis. Since many holistic practitioners advocate a raw food diet, this has prompted me to create this initial monograph based on my research into the subject. This is preliminary as there is minimal literature on the subject and is based on my perceptions and conversations I have had with the experts in this area. It is informational only and should be used in conjunction with any other material that becomes available.

There is very little information in the literature concerning this organism as it relates to the dog. Much of the research has been in cattle and the abortions attributed to Neospora Caninum. Most of the reports have been case studies of dogs that have shown symptoms and discussion of treatment. Exploration on both NOAH (AVMA) and VIN (Veterinary Information Network) have shown less than 12 cases being posted since 1991. I also want to stress that this is not a new organism. I have seen case reports going back to the 1980’s

The organism is a protozoon and seems related to coccidia, Toxoplasmosis and may fall into the same class as Sarcocystis neurona, the organism that is suspected of being the primary cause of Equine Protozoal Myeloencephalitis (EPM).

The main thrust of this document is to explore the question of raw food contamination and if that changes our perspective in recommending raw food diets to our holistic clients for their pets. There is a web page that will allow you to explore Sarcocystis and EPM in detail (http://prevmed.vet.ohio-state.edu/epm/comptext.htm).

We need to address this on several levels.

Is it a real problem? How prevalent is the organism? How serious is the disease? What are the probabilities of contracting the parasite? What steps can be taken to eliminate or limit our pets’ exposure.

Is it a real fear? Based on my preliminary research, the organism has been reported in cattle for at least 8 years. There are some studies that have shown almost an 80% serological (blood titer) presence of the organism in some herds. Since this is being written as the information is being developed, please take my figures with a grain of salt. This is based on my discussion with some of the authorities in the field. I do not yet have the specific literature citations on all aspects but it appears that the definitive article on Neospora Caninum in cattle is a 59 page article by Dr. J.P. Dubey in the Journal of Parasitology 1996, volume 67. I am working on getting a reprint of that article. I will tell you that the vast majority of the study has been on the abortion effects in cattle and only now is more information coming out about dogs.

How prevalent is the organism? The estimates, based on blood studies, indicate a range from 20%- 80% in some of the cattle herds studied. It has been seen primarily as a problem in dairy cattle but N. Caninum can also affect beef herds.

How serious is the disease in dogs? The symptoms usually manifest in puppies and dogs under a year of age and can include a paralysis, myocarditis and encephalitis. Toxoplasmosis can create a similar picture and that makes sense since the organisms responsible are very much alike. There seems to be little in the way of effective treatment but the use of Sulfa compounds has been proposed.

What are the probabilities of contracting the parasite? If the parasite is present in the muscle of affected cattle and the beef is ingested, the digestive juices do not inactivate the organism so it can, theoretically, create a problem. However, when you think about the large number of people that have been feeding raw food diets for decades and the insignificant number of cases being reported in dogs, you have to consider two obvious explanations. The first is that there are a larger number of cases that are going undiagnosed or being blamed on other things. This is possible but the more likely possibility is that this is an opportunistic organism that only preys on animals with an immune system that is compromised in some other way. This might account for the fact that the vast majority of cases are in young dogs and puppies and follow the same model as Toxoplasmosis and coccidiosis.

What steps can be taken to eliminate or limit our pets’ exposure? I am still not convinced that a healthy, holistically cared for pet is the optimal candidate for contracting this parasite. In my discussions with the experts on Neospora, I was led to believe that the treatment of meat to inactivate Toxoplasmosis should also inactivate Neospora. We know that cooking will do this, but it was also interesting to find out that freezing the meat for 24 hours should also kill the organism. The parasitologists were less specific on the use of grapefruit seed extract or food grade hydrogen peroxide to treat the meat. I do, however, feel that this has been effective in dealing with Toxoplasmosis. I base this on the fact that I have never seen or even recall hearing of a case in an animal under good holistic care and being fed a treated, raw food diet. This is not to say it has not and cannot happen but I have yet to see a case.

In conclusion I feel that this parasite is real, but it has existed for many years and is not some new dreadful disease sweeping through our pets. It is something to be aware of but the precautions we are now taking (or should be) seem to be working and we should not allow this to dissuade us from our present dietary choices. To those of you who are wondering if it would be advisable to cook the meat, I feel you are better off freezing it for a 24-hour period. It should retain more of its nutritive quality during freezing than from cooking. To those of you who use other methods to detoxify meat to help prevent Salmonella, E. Coli, other bacteria and Toxoplasmosis, I say to continue that course.

If you take in a new pet, possibly an ill one or a rescue dog that has a weakened immune system or you are dealing with a new puppy, I think the freezing option is the best compromise. These would be the dogs that are most likely to contract this parasite.

Please remember that this was assembled quickly from the information available and is my best analysis of the situation based on all aspects of my medical training and experience. You must each do what you heart and experience tell you. I will continue to prescribe as I have been with some modifications. I will suggest freezing the meat for the younger animals and emphasize the use of grapefruit seed extract or food grade hydrogen peroxide for those clients that are not already doing this.

[bommy]

Thanks Nadia, we have already seen this & passed it on to the Uni before I posted this. Recently (3mths) it has been found that freezing doesnt kill the Neospora, thats why I am looking for an alternative, I am happy to keep feeding barf but it will actually be cooked not raw now, but the guys at the uni have suggested that we use a kibble to help supplement teh dogs diet until Molly gains weight again.

Liverpool University produced the following, cases seem to be more frequent or more reported in the UK, Canad & the US.

NEOSPOROSIS IN DOGS.

SUMMARY

1. Usually neuromuscular disease (ascending paralysis), but wide range of signs

possible.

2. Most commonly reported in puppies and young dogs, but may occur at any age.

3. Worldwide occurrence. No breed or sex predilections.

4. Serology (a type of blood test) is most useful diagnostic test. Examination

of biopsy or post-mortem tissues confirms.

5. Treatment results in functional recovery in many cases.

6. Control/prevention is difficult since the lifecycle and modes of transmission

of Neospora caninum are incompletely understood.

INTRODUCTION

Neosporosis is a relatively recently recognised disease complex, which has most

commonly been reported as an ascending paralysis of young dogs, but which can

cause a wide variety of clinical signs in dogs of all ages.

NEOSPORA CANINUM - THE CAUSATIVE ORGANISM

· A microscopic, Toxoplasma gondii-like parasite, causing muscle weakness, was

described in three litters of Boxer puppies in Norway in 1984. In 1988

researchers in the United States named the causative organism Neospora caninum.

· The parasite was isolated in 1988, grown in tissue culture and tests were

developed. There followed many reports of neosporosis, particularly as the

neuromuscular form of the disease in litters of young pups, from all over the

world. Examination of stored tissue samples revealed that neosporosis was not a

new disease, but occurred in dogs at least as early as the 1950s.

· N.caninum occurs naturally in cattle (where it is an important cause of

abortion), sheep, goats, deer and horses. Experimental infections have been

reported in many species, including rats, mice and monkeys but no natural cases

have yet been reported in cats or man.

· The lifecycle of N.caninum is not yet fully understood.

WHICH DOGS ARE AT RISK FROM NEOSPOROSIS?

Age

Dogs of any age may develop neosporosis. Most reported cases have involved

several littermates, with clinical signs developing at between two and twenty

weeks of age, but confirmed cases have occurred in dogs as young as 2 days old

and as old as 15 years, and many involve isolated individuals, as well as groups

of cases in related dogs. It is also possible that neosporosis may result in

stillbirths and abortions/resorptions, but neosporosis has not been confirmed in

such cases as yet

Breed

Any breed or type of dog may be affected. Neosporosis has been confirmed in more

than 30 breeds, ranging from Yorkshire Terrier, Cavalier King Charles Spaniel

and West Highland White Terrier through Border Collie, Springer Spaniel and

Husky to Great Dane, Bernese Mountain Dog and Irish Wolfhound. Labradors and

Boxers have been well represented, but these are very popular breeds.

Cases have been reported from owners with a single pet through to large breeders

with many animals on the premises, and in dogs from both rural and urban areas.

No sex predilections have been found.

Other concurrent disease, such as canine distemper, is not commonly found in

cases of neosporosis, but immunosuppression may make the disease worse.

CLINICAL SIGNS

Most commonly - a hindlimb weakness, which progresses to paralysis, forelimb

weakness and difficulty in chewing, swallowing and then breathing, resulting in

death or euthanasia. The course of the disease is variable, with peracute cases

dying within a week of the first signs being noticed, to a much more chronic

course in which signs gradually progress over several weeks. Owners often

initially notice a bunny-hopping type of gait, reluctance to jump up or a

splaying out of legs when squatting. One or both hindlimbs may be affected. In

about half of cases a rigid extension of stifle and/or hock develops.

Incontinence is rare initially but may develop as the disease progresses. Fever

and inappetance are rare, with most dogs remaining bright and alert until the

later stages.

Dogs may also present with one or more of the following signs:-

· Weakness/paralysis of forelimb(s) only

· Drunken-type or high stepping gait

· Altered behaviour

· Blindness

· Head tilt

· Head nodding / tremors

· Seizures (fits)

· Sudden death due to inflammation of the heart

· Pneumonia (cough, breathlessness)

· Skin abnormalities

Many other conditions may result in similar clinical signs, including :-

· Trauma e.g. bitch must have stood on pup, 'dog fell, etc.

· Intervertebral disc disease including 'slipped discs", wobblers

· Toxoplasmosis

· Other infectious diseases e.g. canine distemper, rabies

· Congenital/inherited defects e.g. progressive axonopathy of Boxers, spina

bifida

· Thrombo-embolic diseases (bloodclots)

· Neoplasia (growths/cancer)

· Poisoning e.g. botulism

etc., etc.

DIAGNOSTIC TESTS

X-rays are often used to rule out differential diagnoses, as are routine blood

tests (haematology and clinical biochemistry). There are no specific changes in

these tests in cases of neosporosis.

Serology (blood tests to measure antibody levels) - the indirect fluorescent

antibody test (IFAT) is usually used to measure antibodies to N. caninum. A

result (titre) of 1:50 or more (this is the dilution of blood used in the test)

is considered positive evidence of exposure to N. caninum, but not necessarily

of disease. Virtually all confirmed cases of neosporosis have had high titres

(1:800 or more). Although a few clinically normal dogs have had titres up to

1:12800, a titre of 1:800 or more in a dog with clinical signs is good

supportive evidence of neosporosis. Most titres fall over a period of weeks

following treatment However, antibodies remain detectable for many months or

even years. Test titre results depend on many factors and the above information

relates mainly to the IFAT used at Liverpool University, and not necessarily to

tests carried out by other labs.

Collection of the fluid around the spinal cord (CSF analysis) usually reveals

non-specific changes, but parasites may be detected

Electromyography/nerve conduction studies may reveal nerve or muscle damage.

CT/MRI scans are not yet widely available enough to have been used in many cases

of neosporosis, but these techniques may be able to detect some CNS changes,

such as large cysts and areas of inflammation, as occurs in toxoplasmosis in

humans.

CONFIRMATION OF NEOSPOROSIS

Pre-death biopsies (e.g. of muscle, or skin in dermatological cases), utilising

special staining techniques (immunohistochemistry), may confirm the diagnosis.

Post-mortem findings may confirm the disease in fatal cases. Parasites are most

likely to be found in sections of brain, spinal cord and affected muscle, but

may also be seen in heart lungs, liver and/or kidney.

DNA tests, such as polymerase chain reaction (PCR) techniques are likely to be

more widely available in the near future to identity parasite nucleic add, in

CSF samples, biopsy material or tissue sections.

TREATMENT

· Clindamycin (Antirobe) [11-22mg/kg twice daily

· Potentiated sulphonamides (e.g. Tribissen Co-Trimoxazole) [15mg/kg twice

daily]

· Pyrimethamine (Daraprim ,anti-malarial drug) [1mg.kg once daily]

Treatment should be instituted as soon as possible when neosporosis is

suspected. Since the drugs have few side effects and are relatively cheap, this

might even be before serological test results are available. If the dog is going

to respond, there should be some improvement within a few days of commencing

treatment Treatment should continue until the dog has fully recovered or no

further clinical improvement is seen (2-9 weeks). Supportive treatment, e.g.

aspirin like drugs, low doses of corticosteroids, plus good nursing care e.g.

bladder expression and physiotherapy are also beneficial.

About half of appropriately treated dogs might be expected to make a full or

functional recovery, although many are left with an odd gait, muscle wastage or

roached back. Rigid hyperextension is the sign least likely to be reversed. If

this hyperextension is unilateral, amputation of the affected limb may improve

the dogs mobility. Peracute and very chronic cases are the least likely to

respond.

There is anecdotal evidence that relapses may occur, but these generally respond

well to a further short course of treatment

There is also evidence that some, generally more mildly affected, dogs make a

spontaneous recovery.

CONTROL AND PREVENTION

Transmission of the parasite from an infected, but clinically normal bitch to

her puppies was for a long time the only confirmed route of infection in dogs.

However, the number of puppies infected in each litter varies from none to all

of the litter, with overall only about 20% pups seropositive. Fewer than half of

these infected pups are ever likely to develop clinical signs of neosporosis.

Transmission can occur repeatedly over several consecutive litters. Bitches with

an IFAT titre of 1:50 have produced affected puppies, but infections and disease

are more likely in pups born to bitches with high titres. Care should be taken

in interpreting low IFAT results - the sensitivity and specificity of the tests

used are not known exactly, and the risks of producing an affected puppy is

actually quite low. Similarly, there may be legal implications if a positive

bitch is bred from, regarding whether or not resulting puppies should be tested

before sale and whether any results should be disclosed to purchasers when

puppies are apparently healthy at the time of the sale. Such matters need

careful discussion!

There is only limited data available on the preventative treatment of bitches

during pregnancy to prevent prenatal infection of pups, or of seropositive

littermates, but such treatments have generally been unsuccessful.

Since congenital infection is far less than 100% efficient and experimentally,

cats and mice have been infected by mouth), infection after birth is also

suspected to occur, and studies of infection rates in many dogs of all ages have

provided evidence that this is so. The route of infection is thought to be

through the ingestion of raw meat (especially beef), so it is sensible to advise

cooking meat thoroughly before feeding (including scraped beef used for weaning

puppies).It is also possible that infection could result from the ingestion of

the parasite from the

environment after it has been shed by other infected animals, although the

identity of such animals is presently unknown.

Finally, although there is evidence that post-natal infection does occur, it is

still not known whether disease in adult dogs is due to a relapse of congenital

infection or follows from a recent infection in the adult dog.

HOW COMMON IS NEOSPOROSIS?

Neosporosis occurs worldwide. Cases have been reported from Europe, USA, Canada,

Australia, South Africa, Japan and Costa Rica. There is also evidence of

infection in equatorial Africa and South America.

Prevalence (of infection, not disease) varies from 0.5% to 17% of dogs tested.

Studies in the UK have shown a decline in prevalence over the past 10 years.

Whether or not such a decline is also happening in other countries is not known.

CONCLUSION

Neosporosis is not a common disease, but it may result in a wide variety of

clinical signs. It should be suspected in all neuromuscular disorders where

another cause has not been confirmed. Indeed, since treatment is relatively sate

and not too expensive, early treatment of suspected cases, even before test

results are available, is worthwhile. Neosporosis should also be considered in

cases of sudden death in pups and young dogs, in ulcerative dermatitis and in

cases of pneumonia where serology and/or histopathology will aid in diagnosis.

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

I would like to thank Petsavers for supporting the studies on canine neosporosis

carried out at Liverpool University, and Prof A.J.Trees and all the members of

the Veterinary Parasitology group there. Also all the vets and dog owners who

helped in my research.

Dr Jackie Barber, BVetMed, PhD, MRCVS formerly at :-

Veterinary Parasitology, Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine, Pembroke Place,

Liverpool L3 5QA Phone 01517089393.

Now in private practice in North West England.

cheers

Jacqui

[Kismet]

Hi Bommy,

Here are some recipes from the homeopath vet I used to take my dog to when I lived in NZ.... I use the "Canine Delight" as the main part of my dog's diet (though i've started using roast chicken instead of chicken mince.... because she got sick of the mince and I give her raw chicken wings and meaty bones so she gets the cartilage etc she'd get from pet mince). Hope this is useful to you.

General Instruction

RICE - Use wholegrain rice (brown). One cup dry rice makes 3 cups cooked.

VEGETABLES - Use a combination of seasonal vegetables - carrots, brocolli, pumpkin, peas, beans. Don't use leafy vegetables like cabbage. Cook quickly until tender, preferably by steaming, to retain goodness and improve digestibility. Use the liquid they are cooked in

COOKING - There is no law requiring offal to be cooked. We recommend cooking minced chicken. Cooking vegetables improves digestibility, although small amounts of raw grated or pureed vegetables can be used. Try to feed most other food raw.

OIL - use cold pressed oil (flax, sunflower, safflower) at a rate of 1 tsp per 5-10 kg body weight.

RECIPES

Canine Delight

1 cup chicken mince, cooked

1/4 cup cooked mashed veges (pumpkin, kumera, peas, carrots, beans)

2 cups cooked brown rice/potatoes/wholemeal bread

1 tsp cold pressed oil

1/4 cup cooked ox liver

Mix ingredients together

Fast Fish

425g can mackeral or sardines

2 carrots, raw grated

1/2 cup raw sprouts

3 cup cooked rice or wholemeal bread

Mix together and serve.

Val's Loaf

1 cup beef mince

2 cup cooked rice

1 cup rye flakes

1 cup cooked veges

1 cup rolled oats

3 raw eggs

Mix ingredients and store in fridge.

Woffal

1 cup beef mince

4 cups cooked rice

1/2 cup liver or kidneys

Cook meat and rice.

Lentil Loaf

3 cup water/stock

2 cup rolled oats

1/4 cup oil

1 clove garlic, minced

1 cup lentils

1/4 cup soy flour

1-2 beaten eggs

1/4 cup tomato sauce

Slowly add lentils to boiling water/stock and simmer for 20 mins. Add oats and soy flour and let soak for 10 mins. Mix in rest of ingredients and turn into loaf pan. Bake at 350F for 30 mins.

Daily Duo for Dogs

1 1/2 cup cooked oatmeal

1 tsp honey

Morning: serve as a hot cereal

1 cup choped cooked potatoes

1 tsp oil

2 1/2 cup lean beef

1 tbsp grated/chopped veges

Evening: combine and serve warm.

Canine Meat 'N' Grain bulk menu

12 cup cooked brown rice

2 cup lean meat

2 cup mutton flap

1 1/2 cup grated/chopped veges

Mix and serve warm. suitable for freezing.

Potatoes au canine

3 cup boiled, sliced potatoes

1 tbsp food yeast

1/4 cup grated cheese

2 tsp grated/chopped veges

1/2 cup cottage cheese

1/4 cup whole milk

Layer together the potatoes cottage cheese and yeast in a casserole dish. our milk over them and top with grated cheese. Broil or bake until cheese is melted and slightly brown (about 15min at 350F) Let cool. Mix veges in or serve on side.

(Recipes from Akarana Vet Clinic)

Btw, all these recipes included a supplement that this Vet made and sold himself, I left it out because obviously you can't get it here... but apparently it contains yeast, kelp, alfalfa, calcium, flax seed fibre and liver powders.

Good luck with your pup.

Kismet

Edited January 16, 2005 by Kismet

[bommy]

Thank you Kismet,

A variety is just what I was after.

Thanks

Jacqui

[Kismet]

I just found a couple more that are meant for "convalescence, malnourishment, young puppies, nursing bitches, old age", so might be good for Molly too.

Hearty Canine Combo

4 medium eggs

1/2 cup beef/mutton

1 cup cooked brown rice

1/4 cup grated/chopped veges

Scramble eggs lightly and mix with other ingredients. Serve warm.

Dog's Delight

3/4 cup mutton flap (or 5 medium eggs, and 1 tsp oil)

3/4 cup cooked brown rice

1/4 cup grated/chopped veges

1/4 cup cottage cheese

2 tsp marmite

Scramble eggs lightly and mix with other ingredients. Serve warm.

Kismet

[Greytmate]

Hi Bommy,

For those days you don't feel like cooking, you could try Nature's Gift canned food. It does not contain any ingredients other than meat, vegetables, and rice, barley or oats. It is cooked in the can. My dogs eat it and they are in excellent condition.

[bommy]

Greytmate, where abouts do you get that from?

Thanks

Jacqui

[fatnose rule]

Neospora in dogs.

I was very interested to read all the info on this. When my Trig, a Shar-Pei, was 8 years old he collapsed from Neosporosis. From running around happy as he could be, to totally paralyzed within seconds. He was initially mis-diagnosed with tokoplasmosis, and given huge quantaties of steroids, (not a good idea), and when I changed vets, received the correct diagnosis and treatment.

19 antibiotics a day for a month. No it wasnt cheap. He couldn't move, and was rolled and washed, carried outside to toilet. Eventually he managed to lie on his stomach, and then gradually start to walk again, he was very stiff and couldnt corner well After many months he was back to being 99% of the dog he once was. Trig was the worse afflicted case ever to recover, and for that reason had an article written about him and published in the vet journal.

Neospora is more common than is belived. How he got it, I dont know. Another dog I had at the time was also diagnosed with it, (after collapsing), but a month later was clear again. My grand old man passed away at 12 (From a broken heart, his old girlfrind died at 14. He was never the same after she went).

Trig was never fed raw beef. The vets did think he may have been harbouring it in his system since his early days in the UK. He didnt have a weak immune system. It is a mystery.

I havent tested my other dogs, and never lost pups in the way discribed.

[MonElite]

Have you tried Scottys rolls? They are additive free and made from real ingridients and come in variety of tastes for the dog.

[Rusky]

I bought just on Saturday Natures gift products in Woolies. We live in WA.

Proudly made in Australia

they have a wesite.

I bought some treats and kibble for the reward ball.

natures gift

what a very nteresting thread.

Hope all works out ok.

[Fitz and Amie]

I feed natures gift too, and can highly recommend them as a great commercial alternative.

Fitz has a weak valve in his stomach that makes him physically ill if he has most commercial food, and strangly enough he was worse on BARF, so I tried natures gift, and he is looking absolutly wonderful. We are really impressed with it. With a little bit of medication, his throwing up is now around once every few days, instead of 5 or 6 times a day. Its been sooo much better for all of us, especially the poor little dog

[bommy]

Well, I tried natures gift the past 3 days & molly is actually eating a whole 700gm tin at her evening meal! And that is a big improvement she has been turning her nose up at everything else we have been trying. So I think I will stick with that for now! Especially for those busy days when I dont get a chance to cook for her. Thank you all so much

Jacqui

[Aphra]

I like Nature's Gift, I also like the Ecopet rolls, which are human grade meat. The Ecopet dried food is good as well, but harder to find.