For Those Interested - Puppy Farm Code Meeting

[Steve]

Thanks for posting Steve.

I have to admit, this is the first I've heard of the outside kenneling requirement. Does that mean we should avoid putting photos up on the internet that show 3 dogs lying in front of a living room fire?

Edited to say - from a welfare perspective, today in Southern NSW my light framed desert dogs are better off inside.

These are the sort of issues people should be very aware of before anyone starts putting up their hand for a vote for licences and spot inspections.

[Steve]

I don't see how annual vaccination can be enforced when a) the AVA has published documents stating that annual vaccine is no longer necessary and b) there are vaccines registered for 3 yearly use???

Yep but the law says that if you dont want your dog vaccinated yearly according to manufacturers recommendations you have to have written advice form your vet that you shouldnt.

[stormie]

I don't see how annual vaccination can be enforced when a) the AVA has published documents stating that annual vaccine is no longer necessary and b) there are vaccines registered for 3 yearly use???

Yep but the law says that if you dont want your dog vaccinated yearly according to manufacturers recommendations you have to have written advice form your vet that you shouldnt.

So where would a vet stand with regards to the law then, by offering clients 3 yearly vaccination with a vaccine with manufacturers recommendation of annual use, because the the documents provided to him from the AVA saying annual vaccination is not always necessary and that triennial use is accepted?

It all sounds pretty messed up; especially the housing of 2 or more dogs 15m away. I've never seen or heard of such a law before.

[asal]

no less messed than the lady facing what is it? 41 seperate charges for showing her by nsw rules legally, by vic not, debarked dogs.

just because some idiot included debarking under tail docking in forming new laws, didnt mean it HAS TO BE ENFORCED regardless.

how many times has people been let off with a warning by police and judges? what about the girl on the news last night. 8 times over the limit, did 180 in p plates and gets off with a warning.

poorr diddle spca they have to rain hail or sleet prosecute, prosecute, prosecute. they made me do it eh?

but how many truely believe the rspca had to prosecute because this idiot law was passed so they must persecute her. no thats not a spelling mistake.

[asal]

why does this stuff leave me with the feeling those who worked with hitler thought they could minimise the slaughter perhaps?

intstead of cleaning up the leadership?

why is no politicion with the guts to even acknowledge there is something wrong with a organisation answerable to no one not even the stupid polies doing their bidding.....i know i wonder what is it that the pollies think they are getting in return.

only until they destroy someone with friends with political clout will there be any possiblity of that

i was listening to a number of people last week, musing that camden sales had the shortest sale they had ever attened, only 80 odd horses turned up for auction that week and "wondered if the heavy rspca presence since the brumby shipment ,since had frightened off sellers bringing in any, just in case the jackboots in jungle greens would go for em", their words not mine, i dont go there.

Edited August 26, 2010 by asal

[shortstep]

Steve, looking now at the NSW breeders code I can not see anything about 15 meters and can not have them in the house.

Table #2 says socially compatable group (dogs) housed in the back yard or house...3.5 m2 per animal (around 1.8 m floor space??)

I can not see anything about space for bitches with pups, I must be missing it, can you tell me where you found that?

Edited August 26, 2010 by shortstep

[Staranais]

So where would a vet stand with regards to the law then, by offering clients 3 yearly vaccination with a vaccine with manufacturers recommendation of annual use, because the the documents provided to him from the AVA saying annual vaccination is not always necessary and that triennial use is accepted?

I should think any vet would be happy to write a note saying a dog shouldn't be revaccinated with another C3 within 3 years, if they have given the one licensed for every 3 years. Vet wouldn't get in trouble since that's the the manufacturer's recommended dosing interval, & so they'd be backed both by the vaccine manufacturer & the WSAVA. The council can't do anything to the vet, the vet is doing their job correctly & not breaking any laws or codes of practice.

[stormie]

So where would a vet stand with regards to the law then, by offering clients 3 yearly vaccination with a vaccine with manufacturers recommendation of annual use, because the the documents provided to him from the AVA saying annual vaccination is not always necessary and that triennial use is accepted?

I should think any vet would be happy to write a note saying a dog shouldn't be revaccinated with another C3 within 3 years, if they have given the one licensed for every 3 years. Vet wouldn't get in trouble since that's the the manufacturer's recommended dosing interval, & so they'd be backed both by the vaccine manufacturer & the WSAVA. The council can't do anything to the vet, the vet is doing their job correctly & not breaking any laws or codes of practice.

Yeah but I mean if they're using an annual vaccine. The AVA just specifies that core vaccines don't need to be done annually - there's no mention of using specific vaccines, but just that the core vaccines no longer require being done annually. But yeah I guess either way, it would come down to the vet recommendations.

[Steve]

Steve, looking now at the NSW breeders code I can not see anything about 15 meters and can not have them in the house.

Table #2 says socially compatable group (dogs) housed in the back yard or house...3.5 m2 per animal (around 1.8 m floor space??)

I can not see anything about space for bitches with pups, I must be missing it, can you tell me where you found that?

The companion animals act in NSW has the requirement to house any more than 2 dogs at least 15 metres from a dwelling - not the code for breeding dogs.

Edited to add This has been law in NSW for at least 12 years. Its not new.

Julie

Edited August 26, 2010 by Steve

[stormie]

Steve are you able to provide a link to that? All I can find in the act in relation to housing is that it can be specified by each particular council.

For eg, Kogarah specifies no more than 2 dogs (excluding offspring up to 12wks) but has no specification in terms of housing distance from a dwelling.

[Roseclipt]

Steve are you able to provide a link to that? All I can find in the act in relation to housing is that it can be specified by each particular council.

For eg, Kogarah specifies no more than 2 dogs (excluding offspring up to 12wks) but has no specification in terms of housing distance from a dwelling.

No, i can't find it either. I have read the Act, but can find no mention of 15 metres. Would also appreciate the link.

[Lab lady]

In NSW if you have any more than 2 dogs they have to be housed at least 15 metres from a dwelling or an area used to prepare food.

?

There are more people breaking the law than following it, if that were the case. Many people don't have 15 metres length of dwelling space in Sydney? I'm confused. I have two of my own dogs and sometimes two fosters - should they not be allowed to sleep in the house?

In NSW the laws says - no.

Any more than 2 have to be housed at least 15 metres from a dwelling or a place used to prepare food.

The Gold coast are running a pilot program where every one who wants to keep an entire dog have to have a licence and be inspected before they can do that - they are assumed to be breeders. That is being watched as a potential model for the rest of Australia to follow. If that happens it means your homes will be inspected to see if they comply with the mandatory codes before you are able to breed and you will be inspected periodically to ensure you are following the laws.

I have search everywhere on the gold coast council web site the only info i can find about keeping entire animals is this

"Owners of entire dogs or cats both purebred & cross breed who are or intend to breed must obtain a Breeders permit and adhere to a code of practice. The checklist is a form to help you determine if you are complying with the Standards as set out in the Code of Practice. Submission of your application does not mean immediate approval of your permit, an officer must inspect your property to determine if you are complying with the Breeder Code of Practice. "

nothing about needing a license for keeping entire dogs. Can't even find the checklist they talk about. I have just re-registered mine and didn't get any information sent about any changes even though they are listed as entire. The council don't seem to be doing much at all about communicating of any changes.

[goldchow]

http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/t_standard2.aspx?pid=9027

The relevant links are shown here.

[Lab lady]

http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/t_standard2.aspx?pid=9027

The relevant links are shown here.

Thanks, i totally missed it.

Quite a bit to read, i will study it later. I a bit brain dead tonight.

[Lab lady]

just had a quick read of the guidelines and it all seems to be pretty basic. Just one thing which does concern me is this

'A separate quarantine area for each animal, birthing animal or female animal with a litter must be provided in a comfortable, draught-

free area away from people and other animals.'

"away from people" so does that mean we can no longer whelp and raise the litter inside the house, mine spend the first few weeks in my family room.

[Steve]

Dogslife - who knows this stuff better than anyone I know has just come into the other thread and said that the 15 metres from a dwelling stuff is only if you are in the business of breeding dogs.That this doesn't apply if you are a dog owner or a rescue. So at the end of the day I guess its going to hinge on what their definition is of "in the business of" and how much being in the "activity" of as per the preface in the codes differs.

From what I gathered at the meeting there was no difference - a breeder was a breeder but NSW law seems to. Ill make some phone calls today and see if we can have a more clear idea of what we are dictated by.

Sad isn't it that you need a law degree to understand it?

[Andrea]

The code of practice that is being developed is aimed at ANYONE SELLING dogs/pups and cats/kittens, so rescue IS included even though we are not in the 'business' or 'activity' of 'breeding'.

[Quickasyoucan]

Steve, is the discussion about definition of "puppy farmer" designed to bring byb under the umbrella?

Whilst not for a minute negating the large or organised commercial enterprise issue, IMO a large amount of the problems comes from joe blow public throwing (either deliberately or simply through lack of desexing) two dogs together and either selling or giving away the progeny.

Giving an example of a breed I am familiar with I would bet my bottom dollar that the thousands of "staffies" who end up in pounds each year are largely not bred by the DD brigade or large enterprises but by BYB. I have had people approach me when walking my DESEXED staffy cross and ask if I am going to breed with him (on one occasion they called him a her ).

I think this is a huge issue in terms of dog welfare and can only hope this would be part of any deliberations. That said, I just do not see how it could be policed, short of door knocking.

There are thousands of dogs out there in suburbia having miserable lives without their owners necessarily being breeders for profit.

[Roseclipt]

Thanks for the heads up Steve - I look forward to reading more from you on this.

[Steve]

The code of practice that is being developed is aimed at ANYONE SELLING dogs/pups and cats/kittens, so rescue IS included even though we are not in the 'business' or 'activity' of 'breeding'.

Yes Im aware of that but the questions regarding 15 metres from a dwelling are pertinent to NSW