Remote Training Collars

[Guest]

Has anybody heard of the "Remote Training Collar" made by Big Leash. It states all great things and how well it works, but when I tried to find exactly HOW it works, eg, electric stimulation, I can't find zip. I cannot see any endorsement from the RSPCA, only such Clubs as the "Police Dog Training Society".

Has anyone used it?

Is it humane? Or is it as cruel as I think it is?

Can anyone give me information?

MM

[Erny]

E-Collars, or Remote Trainers (which can be e-collars or spray collars .... but in your instance seem to be e-collar types) can be and are VERY great training tools, IMO.

BUT the tool doesn't make the tool great. It's the person at the other end who operates it, who makes it great (or not).

Hhhhmmmm .... where to start?

No - it is NOT as cruel as you think it is. In fact, it is not cruel at all.

Does it have the potential to be cruel? Yes. But then so does anything and everything that we might apply/use on our dogs if we're really into abuse.

Some people think that it is more likely for the e-collar to be abused. I tend not to think that way.

The RSPCA do not endorse it. But then the RSPCA do a number of things that aren't necessarily deemed sensible. The RSPCA, in a court case they undertook against an e-collar manufacturer (Innotek) manufactured evidence purporting that a collar caused burn marks to a dog. In a subsequent court appeal the fabrication of this evidence by the RSPCA became apparent. The RSPCA have been on a witch hunt in an attempt to ban the use of the e-collar for many years. Just as they went on a hunt to ban the use of the PPCollar and in Victoria, succeeded in doing so. Even though there is no recorded evidence of harm from the use of a PPCollar. Even though Victoria is the only State in Australia and for that matter, the only place in the world where its use in training is banned. The RSPCA support the use of head-collars. Even though there IS evidence of harm from the use of those training restraints. So go figure on how the RSPCA thinks.

There have been many discussions about the use of e-collars on DOL.

I use the collar engaging "Negative Reinforcement" methodology. This permits me to use very low stimulation level.

Good use of an e-collar in training can allow dogs to have a stretch of leg off-lead where they otherwise might not.

They can also be an excellent tool when used well, to aid in the rehabilitation of 'troubled' dogs.

The e-collar does not affect the muscular or skeletal structure of dogs, such as the other of our training restraints/tools can and do.

I've never heard of the "Police Dog Training Society" ??? Where's that?

What has suddenly sparked your interest in E-Collars, Micky Moo?

Edited September 5, 2010 by Erny

[Staranais]

What she said.

Any correction collar can be dangerous in uneducated or malicious hands. E collar is no different.

But, of all the correction collars out there, I prefer the e collar for my dogs (well, obviously I'd prefer no correction collar, but if I think one will be useful then the e collar is the best I've tried). It's the most versatile, most gentle, physically safest.

Has several bad points too:

1. Need to learn how to use it. It is not a quick fix. You do not just slap it on the dog & experiment. You don't just crank up the intensity any time the dog doesn't give you the response you want. Like with any correction collar you need to learn from someone who knows how to use it properly & is adept at reading canine body language.

2. Need to remember to charge the damn thing and take the remote with you

3. Very expensive to buy a good quality one

4. Some dogs find the collar mildly aversive as it has to be fitted tightly to work (the key word is mildly - my girl finds most collars aversive, and detests most harnesses. She doesn't like wearing the e collar, but prefers it to wearing a walking harness - go figure. She really is a princess!)

ETA: the "big leash" definitely is a remote e collar, have just googled it. I can understand the confusion since the website persists in calling the stim a "training message" or "sensation" not an electrical stim. Presumably they do this to make sure people understand they're not shocking the dog as if with an electric cattle prod or electric fence (which are what most people immediately assume when you say "electric collar"). Still silly, IMO.

Edited September 5, 2010 by Staranais

[Nekhbet]

RSPCA or Delta will never condone these things just to let you know. No matter how useful they are.

[huski]

RSPCA or Delta will never condone these things just to let you know. No matter how useful they are.

Yep and yet they'll happily endorse other aversive tools/methods.

[Nekhbet]

they wont endorse check chains, pinch collars, remote trainers.

everything else is apparently the more humane option *sigh*

[aussielover]

I'd rather use a check chain or pinch collar than a halter.

But back on topic, when used by a professional or under guidance of a professional, they can be very useful.

However, when used incorrectly they can trigger aggressive responses or other undesirable responses.

[Nekhbet]

However, when used incorrectly they can trigger aggressive responses or other undesirable responses.

as can anything from a shout from the owner, to a touch, to a tug on the lead even with a halter/harness.

[Yesmaam]

They are nothing new and have been around for years

Many of the worlds top competitors and trainers use E collars to some degree.

Google E collars and do a bit of research. They are not cruel in the right hands but you can say that about any type of training device.

Has anybody heard of the "Remote Training Collar" made by Big Leash. It states all great things and how well it works, but when I tried to find exactly HOW it works, eg, electric stimulation, I can't find zip. I cannot see any endorsement from the RSPCA, only such Clubs as the "Police Dog Training Society".

Has anyone used it?

Is it humane? Or is it as cruel as I think it is?

Can anyone give me information?

MM

[persephone]

when I tried to find exactly HOW it works, eg, electric stimulation, I can't find zip.

It is mentioned on the site

[Guest]

It is something that I would seriously lookout to help my rescued pound pooch from using his teeth. I can't have a good play with him without him using his teeth. Though the bite is not hard and much more like mouthing than biting, it is still a behaviour that is unacceptable. I have tried many different methods to get him to stop as suggested by the RSPCA one on one trainer/behaviourist. The biting has become less and I feel I should continue with what I am doing before taking the extreme measure of using the ecollar.

[KitKat]

I actually have one of that brand - and spent the extra lil bit of money to get the noise & vibration functions - i'm very very happy with it. It's v ery easy to use and has a number of levels for the static component, i've not used that on my dog as i've not needed to - the noise or vibration is enough. It has great range and is rechargeable which i find better then batteries - and the remote control will show if the collar is out of range, or if battery power is low etc.

So far i've been happy with it

[persephone]

I can't have a good play with him without him using his teeth.

Ok .......

if he is that excitable ... and has learnt to play that way , I have a solution..

Don't play those games!!

get him to learn other ways of playing ... what 'play' are you doing with him where he can bite you?

There are lots of ways to interact/play !!

[Luke GSP]

It is something that I would seriously lookout to help my rescued pound pooch from using his teeth. I can't have a good play with him without him using his teeth. Though the bite is not hard and much more like mouthing than biting, it is still a behaviour that is unacceptable. I have tried many different methods to get him to stop as suggested by the RSPCA one on one trainer/behaviourist. The biting has become less and I feel I should continue with what I am doing before taking the extreme measure of using the ecollar.

Sorry but I have to typ ethis, a correctly used ecollar is not an "extreme" measure.

expensive, Yes.

Extreme, NO.

worth the money, Absolutely! IMHO

[persephone]

IMO , 'remote training collars' are not an extreme measure used correctly and after personal tuition in their use , however without good knowledge of a dog's behaviour/body language they, like any other training aid/tool can be easily misused

Mickymoo- what methods have you tried so far which have not been effective?

...thinking also - the money which you would spend on a ecollar may be better spent speaking with/being advised by someone like

This person- recommended by some DOL people ?

Edited September 8, 2010 by persephone

[Staranais]

What kinds of games are you playing with her that you keep getting bitten? Like, wrestling on the ground? Or playing tug with a toy?

[Yesmaam]

If you need an E-collar to stop a dog from mouthing you while you are playing there is seriously something wrong with either your training or the advice you are being given.

It is something that I would seriously lookout to help my rescued pound pooch from using his teeth. I can't have a good play with him without him using his teeth. Though the bite is not hard and much more like mouthing than biting, it is still a behaviour that is unacceptable. I have tried many different methods to get him to stop as suggested by the RSPCA one on one trainer/behaviourist. The biting has become less and I feel I should continue with what I am doing before taking the extreme measure of using the ecollar.

[Erny]

If you need an E-collar to stop a dog from mouthing you while you are playing there is seriously something wrong with either your training or the advice you are being given.

I'm inclined to agree - and I would not be using an e-collar for the purpose regardless.

[corvus]

We were going to have a discussion about e-collars, maybe scheduled for next week, was it, Staranais?

There are two sides to every coin. I don't think e-collars need be extreme, but they have the capacity to be extreme. My wariness of them is the same as my wariness for any aversive deliberately applied. Aversive learning is very powerful and suppresses behaviour and creates inhibitions. Maybe that's what you want, and that's fine, but to me it's a tricky thing to get the level just right so that whatever suppression or inhibition I create doesn't bleed into other areas. That's not to say it can't be fixed if I make a mistake, but if I'm not looking for the mistakes, I probably won't notice them. IME even relatively mild aversives tend to have side-effects. Either you are comfortable with that or not. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.

[Erny]

It goes further than just being about aversions; suppressions; etc. Corvus. It goes to Pack - respect; trust; etc.