melz85 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 thanks again for your replies. I have just gotten back from a walk with the dog + kids, I took the e-collar off and just had a leash on her. She didn't once try to get at her tail during the walk, and after we got back I left it off and sat outside with her for 20 minutes or so while she had a drink and a pat then lay in the shade to rest. She didn't even LOOK at her tail - until my toddler ran off around the other side of the house and I went to bring him back, gone for less than a minute and by the time I came back she had opened the wound on her tail up again :D I thought the same thing about the white tip too originally, unfortunately that tip is long gone, she has taken an inch or so off it. That might've been what started it originally tho The muzzle looks like a good idea, certainly better than that huge annoying collar, I never even considered a muzzle as I didn't realise a dog could drink with one on, it gets very hot here so very important that she can get water easily. I might have a look at ordering one or see if I can get one from the vet. Will have to try the t-shirt "anxiety wrap" too, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) Another question: Does your dog have anything else she can chew on? Is a big recreational bone something she gets? Is she allowed in the house? Edited January 18, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) I was trying to think what to colour it with, black texta maybe? That could be toxic? Perhaps a food colour dye .... not sure which ones are dark colours though. ETA: Oh.. just seen that the white tip of your dog's tail is no longer there :D. Sorry. Edited January 18, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 gone for less than a minute and by the time I came back she had opened the wound on her tail up again :D I'm not saying this is the case, but it could be the case that he has learned not to do it in front of you. If it is the case, then it does give you some hope that he can learn not to do it while you aren't there, also. Erny's anxiety wrap suggestion is worth a try. Some people use a kid's t-shirt, you can also use a horse polo bandage in warmer weather. There are videos on YouTube demonstrating the wrapping procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 The muzzle looks like a good idea, certainly better than that huge annoying collar, I never even considered a muzzle as I didn't realise a dog could drink with one on, it gets very hot here so very important that she can get water easily. I might have a look at ordering one or see if I can get one from the vet. They can drink through a basket muzzle, but some dogs need to be shown that they can do it - please don't leave her unsupervised without making sure she knows she can drink through it. There are heaps of different types of muzzle out there. My dog has a rigid plastic basket muzzle for hiking in (to avoid poisoning), but if I were leaving her alone muzzled I'd aim to pick a softer one (for comfort) & definitely a basket design (for good ventilation). I'd go for something like this: http://www.k9pro.com.au/products/Jafco-Plastic-Muzzle.html http://www.fordogtrainers.com/index.php?ma...roducts_id=3827 & definitely not something like this, even if your vet sells them: http://leerburg.com/clothmuzzle.htm :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melz85 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Another question:Does your dog have anything else she can chew on? Is a big recreational bone something she gets? Is she allowed in the house? she has a couple of soccer balls that she chews on and runs around with. We have stopped giving her bones because it sets her off, she starts trying to "guard" them, instead of eating/chewing them she will sit near them and grow/lunge at her tail. She used to sneak inside and steal soft toys quite often, but has stopped that. She also used to chew shoes, seat cushions off the outdoor chairs etc. She seems to have grown out of that now. She's not allowed inside the house, (we rent, otherwise I'd let her!). We have a large semi-enclosed veranda type thing out the front where we spend a lot of time, especially in the evenings and she is allowed in there, she sleeps there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Another question:Does your dog have anything else she can chew on? Is a big recreational bone something she gets? Is she allowed in the house? she has a couple of soccer balls that she chews on and runs around with. We have stopped giving her bones because it sets her off, she starts trying to "guard" them, instead of eating/chewing them she will sit near them and grow/lunge at her tail. She used to sneak inside and steal soft toys quite often, but has stopped that. She also used to chew shoes, seat cushions off the outdoor chairs etc. She seems to have grown out of that now. She's not allowed inside the house, (we rent, otherwise I'd let her!). We have a large semi-enclosed veranda type thing out the front where we spend a lot of time, especially in the evenings and she is allowed in there, she sleeps there Bugger - forgot about that. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melz85 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) well we went to the vet this afternoon and saw a different person to the last one who didn't seem to know much.. he just said to give her antibiotics and keep the collar on her. He spent most of the appointment time out of the room reading her records and getting anitbiotics, didn't really want to talk/listen to us. only spent a minute or so checking her tail before he kinda shuffled us out the door.. seemed really busy. ugh. well $80 later we have 7 days worth of antibiotics. :-\ I want to get one of those Jafco muzzles to use instead of the collar, I measured her nose is 9cm long and 28cm around so I think size 3 will best best but when I choose size 3 on the website it says "The selected product combination is currently unavailable." Also the site says "K9 Pro will be closed from 3pm on the 18th Jan and reopen 9am 1st February 2011." Bugger. The vet only had the type of muzzle someone here said not to get, I checked the pet store too and all they had was the same, and some hard plastic ones that look like she could easily get her tongue through to lick at the wound. Is there anywhere else that sell the Jafco ones (or something similar, something she can drink with it on and not get her tongue through it) in Aus? Edited January 18, 2011 by melz85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I want to get one of those Jafco muzzles to use instead of the collar, I measured her nose is 9cm long and 28cm around so I think size 3 will best best but when I choose size 3 on the website it says "The selected product combination is currently unavailable." Also the site says "K9 Pro will be closed from 3pm on the 18th Jan and reopen 9am 1st February 2011." Bugger.The vet only had the type of muzzle someone here said not to get, I checked the pet store too and all they had was the same, and some hard plastic ones that look like she could easily get her tongue through to lick at the wound. Is there anywhere else that sell the Jafco ones (or something similar, something she can drink with it on and not get her tongue through it) in Aus? K9: Were just doing a stock take and the out of stock size three is back in stock. Were the only Australian Supplier of Jafco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melz85 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 K9: Were just doing a stock take and the out of stock size three is back in stock. Were the only Australian Supplier of Jafco. ok have ordered one, thank you very much =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rottifan Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Just a completely different side thought that I dont think has been mentioned in this thread.....I know of dogs that have chewed at their feet and/or tail as a result of being out of alignment. I dont know of many vets who properly diagnose this along with other symptoms of being out of alignment with their way of dealing with both to suggest xrays (which dont show nerves so wont show if your dog has pinched nerves anyway) or painkillers/anti-inflamatories which only mask up the problem however the problem remains because the cause of it has not been addressed. I'd see an animal chiropractor if you see no change. If your dog has pinched nerves in his back or sciatic nerve is pinched it is highly likely that referral pain or niggling annoying feelings could be shooting down his spine to the tail/rear legs and once adjusted and put back into alignment the feeling/pain instantly is relieved and then it will stop....or it will be a matter of breaking the habit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobul Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 It is not a habit but ocd. Google bull terrier neurological disorder and you will find info. There is also a bull terrier yahoo group dedicated to this problem. It occurs in many other breeds also like shepards. Amputation won't do a thing Cheers Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) ..slightly OT ....But ,to me, this seems to NOT be 'spinning'/tail chasing... but ATTACKING the tail ... like attacking a dog about to steal her bone ...or am I being thick/pedantic .? the OP does not mention 'spinning' that I have seen,.. but does mention food guarding... Is it the same class of behaviour? Does it get managed in teh same way? Edited January 19, 2011 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 ..slightly OT ....But ,to me, this seems to NOT be 'spinning'/tail chasing... but ATTACKING the tail ... like attacking a dog about to steal her bone ...or am I being thick/pedantic .? That's certainly how I saw it too. the OP does not mention 'spinning' that I have seen,.. but does mention food guarding...Is it the same class of behaviour? Does it get managed in teh same way? Some of the same behaviour mod techniques (e.g response prevention) are used, the same meds are usually used, but I don't consider them to be the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Looking at those pictures, I can't help but wonder if that white tip on the tail is triggering something? That's a thought worth exploring and experimenting with. I was trying to think what to colour it with, black texta maybe? There are a whole bunch of neurological conditions that result in people (or animals) misidentifying parts of their bodies. Sometimes the solutions are intriguing. You could always dye it with Condy's crystals, would help with any infection and will turn it a similar colour to her body colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 ..slightly OT ....But ,to me, this seems to NOT be 'spinning'/tail chasing... but ATTACKING the tail ... like attacking a dog about to steal her bone ...or am I being thick/pedantic .?the OP does not mention 'spinning' that I have seen,.. but does mention food guarding... Is it the same class of behaviour? Does it get managed in teh same way? Although I don't profess to know what this dog is thinking at the time, but I wonder that it is not a confliction response. Along the lines of : the dog's anxiety-loaded state + the dog's urge to food guard + no outlet to express those things to so turns on its tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Is it anything like this? It's a fairly wild idea, but I tend to think the dog in the video is suffering from what we might call "Alien Hand Syndrome" (worth googling) and is resourcing guarding against a body part that he is not consciously controlling or identifying with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Yes - I expect in either case the dog at the time of "attack" would not be focusing on the body part being its body part as much as it would be conscious of feeling an uncontrollable urge to express food guarding behaviour. That's just my thoughts and feeling on it though. I hate that video footage. Not for what the dog's doing because it is an interesting and telling incident that we can learn from. I abhor the behaviour of the humans in the background though, who are killing themselves laughing. I am actually quite sad for the dog experiencing the emotion that would have to be behind that behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Yes - I expect in either case the dog at the time of "attack" would not be focusing on the body part being its body part as much as it would be conscious of feeling an uncontrollable urge to express food guarding behaviour. That's just my thoughts and feeling on it though. I hate that video footage. Not for what the dog's doing because it is an interesting and telling incident that we can learn from. I abhor the behaviour of the humans in the background though, who are killing themselves laughing. I am actually quite sad for the dog experiencing the emotion that would have to be behind that behaviour. Yes! That's the video I had seen. Poor dog. .. and that's sort of the way I see this dog's problem ...only a tail, not a leg...and with a heightened arousal state... it is ..."ATTACK!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobul Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Tail biting, spinning, in the same catagory even fly biting, take a look at the web site . I have heard/seen OCD dogs bite their tails down to stumps, bitches bite their teats to nothing, all different extremes I suggest proffessional help NOW and with some one expereinced in OCD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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