Greytmate Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) You didn't say how you were going at agility with your current dog. Before you get carried away with buying a dog most suited to dog sports, wouldn't it be an idea to try out dog sports for a while? I don't understand why you wouldn't go further with working with the dogs you already have before deciding that you are ready for a third dog. You say you have thought about this for a long time, but only recently you asked about trying beginner agility with your current young dog. Getting out there and participating in dogs sports now will give you the answer to your question. You will be able to see for yourself the strengths and weaknesses different breeds have at dogs sports and how breeds suit various handler abilities and training styles as well as how they suit the sports. You will have a fair idea of what sort of dog does suit you. I can understand why somebody that doesn't have a dog that is able to do dog sports would start a thread like this. But the best way to find the information you are looking for is to participate in dog sport now so you can see and understand for yourself the various breed tendencies as they relate to dog sport. Edited July 19, 2011 by Greytmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Can someone tell me if a Coolie is the same as or related to the Smooth coated collie? no and no. A smooth collie is the same as a rough collie but without the long coat A Coolie is a different breed altogether and looks nothing like a smooth collie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 You didn't say how you were going at agility with your current dog. Before you get carried away with buying a dog most suited to dog sports, wouldn't it be an idea to try out dog sports for a while? I don't understand why you wouldn't go further with working with the dogs you already have before deciding that you are ready for a third dog. You say you have thought about this for a long time, but only recently you asked about trying beginner agility with your current young dog. Getting out there and participating in dogs sports now will give you the answer to your question. You will be able to see for yourself the strengths and weaknesses different breeds have at dogs sports and how breeds suit various handler abilities and training styles as well as how they suit the sports. You will have a fair idea of what sort of dog does suit you. I can understand why somebody that doesn't have a dog that is able to do dog sports would start a thread like this. But the best way to find the information you are looking for is to participate in dog sport now so you can see and understand for yourself the various breed tendencies as they relate to dog sport. I don't see a problem with what the OP is aksing? Lots of people start in dogs sports only to find while training and learning with their current dog is fun, there are dogs out there that may be more suited to the purpose (in both temperament and build). I am one of those. While I love training my lab and I think we can be quite good together (once I get my handling skills in order lol), I can see she is just not the ideal build and temperament to be truly competitive in agility. I love working with her and improving together and she has been a fantastic introduction to the world of dog sports I do hope to add another dog to our family in the nearish future and I would like for that dog to be able to compete well in agility. Obviously I'm still going to keep training with Mindy as well. If you are wanting another dog anyway, does it hurt to get one that will potentially excel in dogs sport? I don't see the point of battling on with training a dog (for dogs sports) that is struggling due to body type or even temperament. Some dogs are lazy and while you can motivate them to a point, wouldn't it be much better to get a dog with a more suited temperament and let the other dog laze around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I tend to agree with Greytmate. I think you need to focus on a dog that you want to live with, and then look at a dog that is suited to how YOU do at dog sports. Certain breeds do very well at dog sports when they have very experienced and measured owners. I have a dog who is good at agility given my complete lack of handling skills. He seems to be able to figure out what I really want from him, has good but measured drive and is very forgiving. If I had a dog that was a lot more drivey and not as forgiving (no offence border people, but most BC's I've met fit into this category) we'd fail miserably (not due to the dog's lack of skill, but mine). I suggest giving agility with one of your current dogs a go. Not to necessarily compete with them, but to learn how YOU operate. Also, it will give you time to improve your skills. A total newbie trying to handle a dog with a lot of drive, nouse etc (all good things in an agility dog) can be very hard on both dog and owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I don't see a problem with what the OP is aksing? Lots of people start in dogs sports only to find while training and learning with their current dog is fun, there are dogs out there that may be more suited to the purpose (in both temperament and build). I am one of those. While I love training my lab and I think we can be quite good together (once I get my handling skills in order lol), I can see she is just not the ideal build and temperament to be truly competitive in agility. I love working with her and improving together and she has been a fantastic introduction to the world of dog sports I do hope to add another dog to our family in the nearish future and I would like for that dog to be able to compete well in agility. Obviously I'm still going to keep training with Mindy as well. If you are wanting another dog anyway, does it hurt to get one that will potentially excel in dogs sport? I don't see the point of battling on with training a dog (for dogs sports) that is struggling due to body type or even temperament. Some dogs are lazy and while you can motivate them to a point, wouldn't it be much better to get a dog with a more suited temperament and let the other dog laze around. The OP has not started in dog sports. I agree with what you are saying, but it doesn't apply here. There has been no participation in dog sports, and there has been no battling on with training. I would say the OP will be in a better position to decide her next breed once she has tried the dog sport. And like JulesP I wouldn't encourage any young person that rents their home to keep more than two dogs as pets, as so many people have difficulty finding properties in convenient locations that will allow that number of dogs. Lack of suitable rental accommodation is a common reason why some people are tragically forced to surrender their dogs. The OP has said they have put in a lot of thought and consideration, but I think they should do some more thought and consideration after trying out dog sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) I tend to agree with Greytmate. I think you need to focus on a dog that you want to live with, and then look at a dog that is suited to how YOU do at dog sports. Certain breeds do very well at dog sports when they have very experienced and measured owners. I have a dog who is good at agility given my complete lack of handling skills. He seems to be able to figure out what I really want from him, has good but measured drive and is very forgiving. If I had a dog that was a lot more drivey and not as forgiving (no offence border people, but most BC's I've met fit into this category) we'd fail miserably (not due to the dog's lack of skill, but mine). I suggest giving agility with one of your current dogs a go. Not to necessarily compete with them, but to learn how YOU operate. Also, it will give you time to improve your skills. A total newbie trying to handle a dog with a lot of drive, nouse etc (all good things in an agility dog) can be very hard on both dog and owner. Do you think it is influenced by being on DOL though? Normally people would join their agility club and train their dog and it wouldn't be until they started competing that they decided they wanted a more 'competitive' breed. By that time they would probably have seen all these 'competitive' dogs train or compete. But here they see the pictures, video's etc of these breeds competing and decide that is the best way to be competitive? Rather than how much it just comes down to training- plenty of the 'competitive' breeds fail to make it to competition because they are trained incorrectly..... I am not saying this is the case with the OP- there have been plenty of similar threads in the past few month. Where someone has got a lovely pet and decided that they need a more competitive animal before they even know the limitations of their current dog- be it in agility, the show ring or flyball? Asking what is the right breed for them when that is something that should evolve from what you learn from your first dog. Lists are made from the dogs they see in the ring, not based on dogs they actually want to live or train and in some cases I have just despaired at how little people have understood about the dogs on their list.... Edited July 19, 2011 by ~Woofen~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I think we agree with eachother woofen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I think we agree with eachother woofen? Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Do you think it is influenced by being on DOL though? Totally. Most of these threads seem quite authentic. But this one and the recent ' which small dog' thread leave me with questions. Why the need to add to the number of dogs right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Oh sorry Greymate, I thought the OP had started in obedience and maybe beginner agility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Do you think it is influenced by being on DOL though? Agree to a point. I think in general though, most people, even if general members of the public (not dog obsessed like us lol) wanted a dog to do agility a BC or kelpie would be their first pick (whether that be a good or bad thing...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) Do you think it is influenced by being on DOL though? Agree to a point. I think in general though, most people, even if general members of the public (not dog obsessed like us lol) wanted a dog to do agility a BC or kelpie would be their first pick (whether that be a good or bad thing...) But most people dont go out and buy a serious competition dog before they have competed with their first dog if that makes sense. The logical progression is to get a dog and start sports, regardless of suitability. You then get to the competition and see that your current dog is lacking in some areas, be it breed limitations or training limitations. You work on these limitations, and you may also go get your serious competition dog- knowing more what you want this time because you have identified the areas that you dont want limitations in. The new dog/breed may/may not work because it might be your limitations not your dogs. But hopefully you fix your training with the second dog anyway. But on DOL it appears that people get their first dog and hit the training/breed threads. See dogs that are already competing and say I want that, putting limitations on their dog before they have even competed. So they make a list of successful dog breeds and ask which one for them. Its not possible to answer because we don't know what your limitations are, and where you want to strengthen your performance. Do you want a faster dog, or a more willing dog or one that looks flashy? And in reality if you go to comps and see these dogs you generally ask the competitor where they got them from, because you want that LINE of dogs, which is more important than breed in some cases! So you could come up with the perfect breed for you, but get a dog from the wrong kennel, and be no better off than you were with your first dog, which still doesn't compete so you wouldn't actually know you were no better off.... DOL seems to fast track people but I dont necessarily agree with it. Better to slow down and really look at what you want. Do appropriate research instead of just looking for a good breed and learn how to train so you know your own limitations, before saying that your dog has limitaitons. Case and point- in Flyball there is a Lab running under 4.5 seconds (I think it has run a 4.3) and regularly competes in division 1 and 2 with the kelpies and border collies (fastest in australia is 3.8, but most run 4.0-4.4 seconds for those not familiar with the sport in those divisions)..... They do obedience successfully too. So nope their next competition dog wont be a border collie or Kelpie because their training, and the lines they have chosen make them very competitive with their current breed. But if they hadnt given their dog a chance then they would have missed that. ETA- they have just found an agility club they are happy with so I am expecting they will also have some agility titles to add to their dogs names. Edited July 19, 2011 by ~Woofen~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 That's a really good observation about this type of thread Woofen. Thanks for explaining it so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Very true woofen My dog's biggest limitation is me :D I know she can be fast and agile- she is amazing when she is running to retrieve her ball and when she's is playing with other dogs. The main issue is getting that enthusiam in the agility ring, which is a training issue. OT sorry- but where do you do flyball? I am interested in starting with my girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Very true woofen My dog's biggest limitation is me :D I know she can be fast and agile- she is amazing when she is running to retrieve her ball and when she's is playing with other dogs. The main issue is getting that enthusiam in the agility ring, which is a training issue. OT sorry- but where do you do flyball? I am interested in starting with my girl. Southern cross at Fairfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 My opinion is that dog sports are something we can use for the enjoyment of the dogs that we own and love. It involves a change of priority when dogs are the things we use for our enjoyment of the dog sports we want to do. Nothing wrong with dog sports and choosing breeds to suit them, I would encourage that, as long as the welfare and happiness of all of your pets is the number one priority. Buying a third dogs now means you have to look down the track when all three are too old for dog sports but will still need care. If that stretches your resources you will be out of dog sport for quite a long time. If you delay buying the third dog now until a time when you can no longer do dog sports with your current dogs, you will have a better chance of continuously being able to participate in dog sports over the next decade and improving your performance in the sport. Working with the imperfect dogs you already own and going as far as you can is a real achievement and deserves as much or more admiration than a person that keeps buying more dogs until they have an 'impressive' one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphra Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Not what but who! We were really hoping someone with an interest in agility would take a look at our Gibson: he's a Cocker Spaniel X probably Kelpie. Medium sized, very athletic, really tuned in to people and only young. He's got such a quick, clever mind and learns so fast, he's really fun to train. http://www.petrescue.com.au/view/108816 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) Gibson looks a lot like my previous dog Belle :D who was also Cocker Spaniel X we think Kelpie (she was black though - but very similar looking). She was vey smart Edited July 19, 2011 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 My opinion is that dog sports are something we can use for the enjoyment of the dogs that we own and love. It involves a change of priority when dogs are the things we use for our enjoyment of the dog sports we want to do. Nothing wrong with dog sports and choosing breeds to suit them, I would encourage that, as long as the welfare and happiness of all of your pets is the number one priority. Buying a third dogs now means you have to look down the track when all three are too old for dog sports but will still need care. If that stretches your resources you will be out of dog sport for quite a long time. If you delay buying the third dog now until a time when you can no longer do dog sports with your current dogs, you will have a better chance of continuously being able to participate in dog sports over the next decade and improving your performance in the sport. Working with the imperfect dogs you already own and going as far as you can is a real achievement and deserves as much or more admiration than a person that keeps buying more dogs until they have an 'impressive' one. I think that it definitely challenges our skill as handlers when we train dogs that aren't necessarily "ideal" for dog sports. However I can also understand why people don't want a challenge like that, and IMO, every dog regardless of breed comes with it's own challenges. I am glad I had a more challenging dog for my first dog sports dog but when it came to choosing what breed for my next pup I intentionally picked a breed I knew I would enjoy training the most and would be most suited for the style of training I like to use. But I also didnt want any of the more "common" obedience or agility breeds you see around so that made it interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Personally I think the 'challenging skills' with a less ideal dog is total crap. Try training a border collie that anticipates so much that it does a right about turn on the judges command! Training a high drive working dog is like driving a sports car (not that I know what that is like but you get the point), very very easy for the handler to stuff up. Very sharp animals are quick to learn and give you a super feeling but they are challenging. All my border collies have required great self control from me. None of them have appreciated correction and just a gruff command if I am having a bad day can have a nasty effect. Kelpies I've noticed are a little the same. They will take their toys and go home too. Aussie's seem a little bit more robust although I have seen some soft ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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