Oscars Law

[emilee]

apparently i am being told that this subject has been done to death over the years a few posts back someone said this sorry i can't be bothered to look back.

i am not a regular i've been on DOL since 2004 but disappear for months at a time i was unaware of this subject.

i still find this discussion facinating and perhaps if the people who are saying this has been done to death perhaps don't read this thread if people are so sick of it??? just a suggestion ;)

im not the only one repeating myself as many are trying to get their points across. all good. im also not the only one that is sometimes maybe a bit off topic.

i don't want to start trouble with anyone especially people i don't know, but being told these things is bound to get up anyone's nose especially when we are all on a public forum and wanting to participate as best as we can. ok enough said....this in itself is so back on topic.

Copied from your very own website.... "A puppy farmer is a person who sells their dogs for money"...... so by your very own definition, anyone who has ever sold a dog for money is a puppy farmer.

Do you mind telling me what you require as a means of payment for any pups you may sell

[toy dog]

So you stand by everything you have written on your website?

if you mean putting up oscar law stuff, i've had that there for years and never really thought about it, after this lively discussion and others point of view on the whole thing, im actually thinking that instead of supporting their cause and giving out oscar law flyers, i think i will forget it and make up my own, something that entails the benefits of pedigree dogs over pups and dogs bought at petshops and puppy farms. the state controlling body here had flyers you could download of their webs a few years ago and distribute far better to do this. i feel like a rebel now especially when it was made clear that i was not to promote pedigree dogs at all against crosses. lol

[toy dog]

apparently i am being told that this subject has been done to death over the years a few posts back someone said this sorry i can't be bothered to look back.

i am not a regular i've been on DOL since 2004 but disappear for months at a time i was unaware of this subject.

i still find this discussion facinating and perhaps if the people who are saying this has been done to death perhaps don't read this thread if people are so sick of it??? just a suggestion ;)

im not the only one repeating myself as many are trying to get their points across. all good. im also not the only one that is sometimes maybe a bit off topic.

i don't want to start trouble with anyone especially people i don't know, but being told these things is bound to get up anyone's nose especially when we are all on a public forum and wanting to participate as best as we can. ok enough said....this in itself is so back on topic.

Copied from your very own website.... "A puppy farmer is a person who sells their dogs for money"...... so by your very own definition, anyone who has ever sold a dog for money is a puppy farmer.

Do you mind telling me what you require as a means of payment for any pups you may sell

what is this now a witchhunt on me personally or something?

[emilee]

apparently i am being told that this subject has been done to death over the years a few posts back someone said this sorry i can't be bothered to look back.

i am not a regular i've been on DOL since 2004 but disappear for months at a time i was unaware of this subject.

i still find this discussion facinating and perhaps if the people who are saying this has been done to death perhaps don't read this thread if people are so sick of it??? just a suggestion ;)

im not the only one repeating myself as many are trying to get their points across. all good. im also not the only one that is sometimes maybe a bit off topic.

i don't want to start trouble with anyone especially people i don't know, but being told these things is bound to get up anyone's nose especially when we are all on a public forum and wanting to participate as best as we can. ok enough said....this in itself is so back on topic.

Copied from your very own website.... "A puppy farmer is a person who sells their dogs for money"...... so by your very own definition, anyone who has ever sold a dog for money is a puppy farmer.

Do you mind telling me what you require as a means of payment for any pups you may sell

what is this now a witchhunt on me personally or something?

No, but really did you think about what you wrote before you put it out there? Statements like that don't do responsible breeders any favours.

[toy dog]

apparently i am being told that this subject has been done to death over the years a few posts back someone said this sorry i can't be bothered to look back.

i am not a regular i've been on DOL since 2004 but disappear for months at a time i was unaware of this subject.

i still find this discussion facinating and perhaps if the people who are saying this has been done to death perhaps don't read this thread if people are so sick of it??? just a suggestion ;)

im not the only one repeating myself as many are trying to get their points across. all good. im also not the only one that is sometimes maybe a bit off topic.

i don't want to start trouble with anyone especially people i don't know, but being told these things is bound to get up anyone's nose especially when we are all on a public forum and wanting to participate as best as we can. ok enough said....this in itself is so back on topic.

Copied from your very own website.... "A puppy farmer is a person who sells their dogs for money"...... so by your very own definition, anyone who has ever sold a dog for money is a puppy farmer.

Do you mind telling me what you require as a means of payment for any pups you may sell

what is this now a witchhunt on me personally or something?

No, but really did you think about what you wrote before you put it out there? Statements like that don't do responsible breeders any favours.

well thats your opinion and i have a right to put whatever i want on my own website end of story

[emilee]

Copied from your very own website.... "A puppy farmer is a person who sells their dogs for money"...... so by your very own definition, anyone who has ever sold a dog for money is a puppy farmer.

Do you mind telling me what you require as a means of payment for any pups you may sell

what is this now a witchhunt on me personally or something?

No, but really did you think about what you wrote before you put it out there? Statements like that don't do responsible breeders any favours.

well thats your opinion and i have a right to put whatever i want on my own website end of story

No its not the end of the story - you still haven't said what you accept as payment for a puppy.....wouldn't be money would it? because that would just make you a hypocrite.

[Steve]

Posted 15 August 2011 - 10:44 PM

toy dog, on 15 August 2011 - 08:58 PM, said:

Steve, on 15 August 2011 - 05:52 PM, said:

If I lived there I sure as hell wouldnt apply for a DA to breed dogs.

ah but wait they'll still find you, locals talk and some even go as far as to dob in anyone seeing doing the wrong thing by the animals. ;)

so you won't get away with it na ah ah (always wanted to use that emoticon and now i found a reason to )

Well thank God you only have two dogs then and never breed from your premises

[Nic.B]

You can however offer education and another perspective. At the moment the farmers have an open market. No one sees anything other than them.

Not quite. Some folk find the reputable breeders.. quite a few in fact.

I am not at all discounting beautiful pure breeds, I have them here with me now at my feet along with rescues.

I just think that if there was much more info re pure breeds, even if people google junk it would be fantastic.

There is plenty of information on purebred dogs on the Web. Most breeders and breed clubs have websites. There are whole websites devoted to matching people with purebred dogs suitable for them.

But you're not talking about people who research breeds here. Impulse buying and buying a dog that fails to live up to your expectations is what sees dogs dumped. Buy from soneone who doesn't give a damn about the kind of home the pup is going to and the chances of dumpage grow exponentially.

This is great, sites matching people with purebred dogs up there with the farmers and BYB's etc would be excellent.

As I said, it is probably not the market you are looking for, though providing user friendly education is so important. As I said at times we have to suffer fools.

I agree with you 100% re your comments re impulse buying, risk factors of dumping, abandonment and neglect go through the roof when the seller does not give a damn about the home, simply profit.

[Nic.B]

Ok, let’s look at things differently.

Do you support whaling in protected waters or otherwise?

Do you support clubbing baby seals in front of their mothers?

Do you support bears being trapped in cages for their bile?

Do you support the black market trade in Rhino horns, Gorillas feet and hands, Elephant tusks and god knows what else?

Animal rights groups bring these sad pictures to the world by being there. If not for them we would have no clue really of what is really going on out there. Tangible PROOF and yes the real story. They make a difference.

So, what is the difference with companion animals I ask? With a massive number of family pets being silently PTS in shelters and pounds.

I do not support animal cruelty yet there is no way i will ever support any group/s that speak of 'ethical' but lie, steal and perform illegal acts under the guise of 'rescue' to get their own way.

I have no respect and will never support them in any way.

I do not/would not support these groups either. There are some groups who do an outstanding job though.

[WreckitWhippet]

Oscars Law, is not one of those doing a great job

[poodlefan]

Ok, let’s look at things differently.

Do you support whaling in protected waters or otherwise?

Do you support clubbing baby seals in front of their mothers?

Do you support bears being trapped in cages for their bile?

Do you support the black market trade in Rhino horns, Gorillas feet and hands, Elephant tusks and god knows what else?

Animal rights groups bring these sad pictures to the world by being there. If not for them we would have no clue really of what is really going on out there. Tangible PROOF and yes the real story. They make a difference.

So, what is the difference with companion animals I ask? With a massive number of family pets being silently PTS in shelters and pounds.

I do not/would not support these groups either. There are some groups who do an outstanding job though.

The "difference" in my opinion, is that companion animals DO NOT SUFFER during humane euthanaesia. Grasping that immediately differentiates this issue from all those others. That doesn't mean that the issue isn't important and can be ignored. But its not comparable.

[Nic.B]

I get your point Poodlefan, we may have to agree to disagree though.

Spending 7 to 10 days in a pound or shelter is stressful for companion animals. The actual act of euthanasia by lethal injection is the most humane death we can offer happy, healthy family pets. It should never be acceptable though.

I have seen these dogs 1000 times bum plant all the way to the room, or lie flat like a pancake on the ground. Nearly all “put the brakes on” It is deeply distressing to witness and for the staff.

It is not just about euthanasia though. What about all of the dogs suffering passive neglect in a backyard once they are not so small and sweet?

How on earth is it not stressful for a dog to be surrendered by their owners with no hope of finding a home in a foreign, noisy and stressful kennel environment? And you know what, despite their despicable owners, they still love and show loyalty toward them. They wait and look for their owners every single day. If they are lucky they don’t “shut down” due to the stress, because if they do, they have no hope.

I am probably best off to bow out now, as this is now a distressing subject. I would prefer to continue with my hands on work in trying to make a difference for these lovely souls, rather than discuss here on DOL.

It is a subject close to my heart and something I have years of experience witnessing.

[toy_dog]

No, but really did you think about what you wrote before you put it out there? Statements like that don't do responsible breeders any favours.

so you are speaking on behalf of responsible breeders are you, the same group that i proudly belong to too? are you a breeder? if you were you'd know what im talking about.

and ofcourse if i write a response on here i'll be accused of writing essays and going off topic and being irrelevant again.

let me get this clear to you, i make no excuses what-so-ever for breeders who breed their dogs for sole purpose of making money/profit. then you can call these people hypocrites because they are exactly the same as a dog farmer arent they.

this is the common misconception amongst the public today, they think because we get "money" for our dogs we must be making a buck but they dont' stop to think about how much "money" has gone out before we even started, fees like stud which can be up to $1500 sometimes $2000 then there's vaccinations, microchips, running backwards and forwards to the vet if the bitch is having trouble all costs lots of money, ceasarians can cost up to $1500, also desexing fees so in essence if you are "responsible" as you put it, you are just getting your money back. we get alot of farmers/BYB with our breed who buy a young female of us lie through their teeth about what they want the puppy for comes into season then breed it to buggery so to stop that we keep our females to an age that we can then desex to protect our dogs. People are getting desperate enough to get a female see $ signs in their eyes and then tell you where to get off when you enquire how the dog is going that you sold to them. especially an undesexed female.

so most would know what im talking about as what i say is not new to these forums and has been said to death as i got accused of doing the last few posts.

and then there is the element that we get accused of not liking the competition of these horrid people who breed their dogs for money. i couldn't care less if i don't sell my dogs straight away i am more concerned with finding the most suitable home for my dogs and i know alot of other breeders that are the same. its more about breed not the money.

Edited August 15, 2011 by toy_dog

[toy_dog]

I have seen these dogs 1000 times bum plant all the way to the room, or lie flat like a pancake on the ground. Nearly all “put the brakes on” It is deeply distressing to witness and for the staff.

It is not just about euthanasia though. What about all of the dogs suffering passive neglect in a backyard once they are not so small and sweet?

How on earth is it not stressful for a dog to be surrendered by their owners with no hope of finding a home in a foreign, noisy and stressful kennel environment? And you know what, despite their despicable owners, they still love and show loyalty toward them. They wait and look for their owners every single day. If they are lucky they don’t “shut down” due to the stress, because if they do, they have no hope.

all i can say is its a cold cold world out there sometimes eh.

[toy_dog]

If I lived there I sure as hell wouldnt apply for a DA to breed dogs.

ah but wait they'll still find you, locals talk and some even go as far as to dob in anyone seeing doing the wrong thing by the animals. ;)

so you won't get away with it na ah ah (always wanted to use that emoticon and now i found a reason to )

Well thank God you only have two dogs then and never breed from your premises

okay steve i never meant to make this a personal thing about you or i, i was talking about some puppy farmers or people who are operating a dog farm with many many dogs and who have not been licenced but the locals all know what they do and who they are just because these people are members of the council and/or members of the police force. they get away with blue murder and not following the rules like others have to. i was talking about oscar law people and how they chase up these people and get to be in the know about what is going on.

[emilee]

so you are speaking on behalf of responsible breeders are you, the same group that i proudly belong to too? are you a breeder? if you were you'd know what im talking about.

Yes I am and yes I do and I certainly don't need your preaching nor your essay. I breed, I rescue, I train I exhibit, I health test and I assist as many people as I can.

What I am trying to get across to you is that when some potential pet owner who doesn't know better reads your little spiel and gets to that line what do they think, I certainly don't need anyone telling me that because I charge money for my pups I am therefore, in your opinion,a puppy farmer.

[toy_dog]

so you are speaking on behalf of responsible breeders are you, the same group that i proudly belong to too? are you a breeder? if you were you'd know what im talking about.

Yes I am and yes I do and I certainly don't need your preaching nor your essay. I breed, I rescue, I train I exhibit, I health test and I assist as many people as I can.

What I am trying to get across to you is that when some potential pet owner who doesn't know better reads your little spiel and gets to that line what do they think, I certainly don't need anyone telling me that because I charge money for my pups I am therefore, in your opinion,a puppy farmer.

and i'll say it again for the upteenth time, im not talking about "charging" i am talking about people "breeding" their dogs for money and nothing else if that were so by what you say, i'd be putting up if breeders charge money for dogs they are a farmer but i haven't said that have i, i'd also say breeders should be charging nothing and giving away their dogs i mean its all common sense and straight forward if you have taken exception to it then don't visit my website. i stand by my little Spiel as you put it, and i have stood by it for the last 14 years thats its been there.

so if i defend myself i am preaching to you when i don't know you from a bar of soap and what your experience is. i know what my experience is and i know where my heart lies.

okay enough said spending time explaining myself to strangers. i've got other things to do.

Edited August 16, 2011 by toy_dog

[emilee]

so you are speaking on behalf of responsible breeders are you, the same group that i proudly belong to too? are you a breeder? if you were you'd know what im talking about.

Yes I am and yes I do and I certainly don't need your preaching nor your essay. I breed, I rescue, I train I exhibit, I health test and I assist as many people as I can.

What I am trying to get across to you is that when some potential pet owner who doesn't know better reads your little spiel and gets to that line what do they think, I certainly don't need anyone telling me that because I charge money for my pups I am therefore, in your opinion,a puppy farmer.

and i'll say it again for the upteenth time, im not talking about "charging" i am talking about people "breeding" their dogs for money and nothing else if that were so by what you say, i'd be putting up if breeders charge money for dogs they are a farmer but i haven't said that have i, i'd also say breeders should be charging nothing and giving away their dogs i mean its all common sense and straight forward if you have taken exception to it then don't visit my website. i stand by my little Spiel as you put it, and i have stood by it for the last 14 years thats its been there.

so if i defend myself i am preaching to you when i don't know you from a bar of soap and what your experience is. i know what my experience is and i know where my heart lies.

okay enough said spending time explaining myself to strangers. i've got other things to do.

Once more for clarification, from your website:

A puppy farmer is a person who sells their dogs for money

[toy_dog]

anyone else want to have a go at me for what i write on my website? i take it people are now going in there and trying to pick the hell out of what i write. what i have there is from the heart and based on my experience and i am not going to change what i write or apologise or excuse myself. thank you very much.

and don't send me any more personal abusive messages please. i haven't got time for all this crap. thats what i get for coming on here to this forum people personally attacking me.

it sucks man.

[toy_dog]

Once more for clarification, from your website:

A puppy farmer is a person who sells their dogs for money

whatever mate. ETA: please refrain from cutting and pasting on my website as this infringes on copyright. thank you.

Edited August 16, 2011 by toy_dog