Jap Spitz Puppy Meeting New Dogs

[Alec]

Hi All,

Wondering if you can help me.

Our 3 1/2 month Japanese Spitz puppy was fully vaccinated a few weeks back so we have started taking her for walks in the park and also obedience school where she meets lot of other puppies and dogs.

She is such a confident pup and absolutely loves humans, shes 'everyones pet' as a nice lady said at the park, but we are a bit concerned about her behavior around other dogs.

The first other dog she met was a small adult poodle, a little larger then herself. The poodle approached nicely to say hi, but Lilly cowered on the ground with her tail between her legs

She got a little better after a few mins, but she was constantly hiding between/behind our legs whenever the poodle approached.

For the whole walk, she met maybe 5 or 6 other dogs and the same story, perhaps with a little less cowering.

Next day was a bit better, and she hasn't really cowered since the first day. Aside from hanging her head a little lower, her tail does not go between her legs and she wont cower on the ground. But she will still not approach other dogs willingly unless they have their backs turned. The moment the look at her she runs behind us! Initially we have tried to hold her in front of the other dogs to let her sniff but she tries her hardest to get away and we don't really think this is the right way to do it so have stopped.

She will quite happily sit within a few feet of other dogs but only if they are ignoring her.

At puppy school she met alot of dogs, mostly bigger than her, and again she was ok to walk around them until they approached her. She would sneak up on them and sniff, but as soon as they turned towards her she was off like a rocket!

At the park just yesterday she met alot more dogs, both puppy's her age and adult dogs. She wouldn't go near the larger dogs and pulled away on the leash. With the puppy's she cautiously approached and ran away when they paid her attention! Shes always pulling back on the leash.

She did make friends with a toy poddle which was the first pup we found who was actually smaller than her, and after a caution introduction of about 15minutes she was playing with it. The poodle was a little scared of lilly this time, but not nearly as scared as lilly was to other dogs!

Below is a photo of her meeting her brother, the first time they have seen each other since 6 weeks of age.

It was almost like she didnt recognise him! She hid behind us and we had to maneuver her in front of him! As you can see she sits quite happily near her bro, but as soon as he starts to show her attention she will run behind us. Same with the other JS behind them.

I will point out that the way I type this probably makes her sound really scared of dogs. I am not sure this is entirely true because is she were scared, I guess she wouldn't even sit near them, and shes no longer hanging her tail between her legs unless the dog is really big, but in those cases she normally runs away as far as the leash will let her!

Also, its worth noting that when she eventually started playing with the little poodle, she was off her leash. All other times she was on it.

Are we worrying over nothing? It it normal for puppy to not want to approach other dogs? I would have thought she'd be eager to try something new, she is with everything else! How long should it normally take for Lilly to get used to other dogs?

I will note that at the breeders she was raised with a number of other JS and also Staffordshire Bull Terrier's of all ages (and lovely temperaments) so its not like shes never seen a dog before! She payed quite happily with her sister and brother as a wee one at the breeders (not any more it seems...)

Edited October 9, 2011 by Alec

[PennyGB]

Lilly is beautiful!

What did the person running puppy preschool say about her behaviour??

I can't really help as I have the opposite problem, Archer wants to play with everyone and everything, although as a puppy he had lots of weird fears (like walking down the hallway) which he eventually got over given time.

How are you when you take Lilly out, relaxed or tense/cautious?

[Tassie]

As long as she's not displaying really fearful behaviour, this is not a bad 'problem' to have. She'll get herself into less trouble by being cautious than by being full-on/in-your-face with other dogs. Not all dogs are party animals, and IMO, being comfortable and happy with people is WAY more important - and sounds like she's got this all sussed :D .

Obviously be guided by what your instructor says (after all they can see the behaviours) but personally, I'd just be taking things steadily - not trying to force any interaction she doesn't want, keeping her at a distance where she feels relaxed and comfortable. As she gets used to being around other dogs, you will probably see her relax some, and the comfort distance lessen - but she may always be one of those pups who, except for a few special friends, prefers to just be on the outskirts. Doesn't mean she's not having fun, or that she's missing out on anything. Her main fun should come from you anyway.

OH - and I'm not really a spitz person , but she and those other puppies look so darned cute in the photo that I could almost be converted. :D

[W Sibs]

You still have a little puppy who's still discovering the big world. To her everything is new, exciting and a little scary... I think give her time. Take her out and about. This is all socialising your gorgeous pup

[dancinbcs]

Very sensible puppy to submit to every new dog it sees. Far less chance of any dog attacking her that way. Try not to keep getting her to meet lots of new dogs until she gets to know a handful of them better. Once she gets to see the same dogs a few times she should get to know how they are going to react and relax around them. I definitely wouldn't be taking her up to bigger dogs you don't know. If you are not certain of the dog's temperament keep your precious baby way from them. JapSpitz are very good at being full of bravado when safely contained in a crate or behind a fence. Take them out of the safe environment though and they have the sense to know not to take on anything bigger than them.

Dogs are pack animals and like to be in a pack of dogs they know. It is not normal or desirable for dogs to bound up and greet every strange dog they see. Wild dogs are never friendly to dogs from another pack. You will have a far better trained dog if she concentrates on you and ignores most other dogs than if she is a social butterfly wanting to play with every dog she sees.

[Sandra777]

Basically what Dancinbcs said.

Two things stuck out though.

She hasn't seen her brother since they were 6 weeks old? You got her when she was 6 weeks old or she stayed with the litter and he was taken at 6 weeks? 6 weeks is MUCH too young for you to have got Lily if this is what happened - not really surprising she doesn't do well relating with other dogs, poor mite never learned how to in those very important weeks...........

Related to this "it's as if she didn't recognise him" - well she probably didn't. To her, he is another dog she doesn't know you were forcing her to meet. No wonder she wasn't very keen.

Do NOT hold her in front of other dogs, firstly it will only make her more wary because she needs to be able to trust you and you are forcing her to do something that worries her, so she is learning that YOU can't be relied on either. Secondly it will make it impossible for her to escape if the other dog turns out to NOT be friendly - which could lead to a very unpleasant incident for everyone. You might think the other dog is being friendly, but dog language is incredibly subtle and Lily can read another dog's intentions a thousand times faster than you can even if you noticed it's subtle signs in the first place.

IMO it's perfectly normal and shows a degree of smarts for a small (and cute ) "breakable" pup to be wary of strange dogs! It's not in the slightest bit normal for dogs to be social butterflies - they are pack animals.

[Alec]

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies.

I think we are just overly worried parents We took her to her 2nd obedience school on tuesday and she was much better!

She had a chance to play around before hand with a flat coated retriever (nice and tall) and also her brother and sister in law (the other 2 spitz in the photo) and she had a riot running around them playing once she got familiar with them.

Shes started kissing her brother (weird...) and playing, albeit cautiously, with the other pup's in her class and she sniffed a bum or 2 for the first time Funnily enough the pup she was most interested in was a St. Bernard lol its paw if bigger than her entire body (almost :p)

We are just being relaxed and normal, as if there were no other dogs around (but of course being careful of the big mean looking ones)

The trainer said the same thing as you all have.

Tassie,

Join the Spitz owners clan :D

Sandra,

We got her when she was 8 weeks When we met her at 6 weeks the brother wasn't there, but maybe he was just in another room...we all know what they say about assumptions!

EDIT: Come to think of it, Mikey (her bro) was dropped of the same day Lilly was, so they must have been together for the full 8 weeks)

So our instincts to stop 'forcing' her to meet the other dogs were right then We haven't done it since that one example, it just felt wrong.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Alec

[Atanquin]

Zorro is like that he cannot get enough of people he loves them to bits and they love him but he is scared meeting new dogs and I was worried for a while but I found out once e had sniffed there bums he was fine he just had to get in to have a hallo sniff first so I wouldn't worry to much about it she will figure it out she is still young and very cute :D.

[RubyBlue]

This sounds a lot like my adult dog. When she was younger there were very few occasions where she didn't present her belly to a new dog (much to my embarrassment ). Now she uses a much more subtle head turn eyes down submission and will only roll over on occasion. Shes just a submissive dog and I think will always be content to be a follower.

Providing your puppy is not bolting in fear I don't think you need to be too concerned.

She is extremely cute by the way

[Alec]

These are all reassuring comments thanks

She now bolts with her ears down and her tail straight, in otherword's her 'catch me if you can' run...we call her 'mighty mouse' lol

[Ambrosia]

JS can be wary of people and dogs they don't know, it is in the breed standard.