Possession Aggression

[JLPandFriends]

Hiyas,

I have an desexed english cocker spaniel male, 2yrs old who has possession aggression but only towards other animals. I adopted him when he was 7 months.

I've read a lot of articles and blogs about this but because my situation is a little bit unique I haven't been able to find any information regarding how to deal with this issue.

Not only is my dog possessive (growls, snarls and barks at the cats if they even attempt to walk by when he's playing or chewing on something), if he finds something that grabs his attention, even if its a 2cm piece if string on the floor, as soon as one of the cats walks by he turns around and sits and start guarding it. It's not just food, its anything he finds. Sometimes it doesn't even have to be something that he's particularly interested in. If he sees the cats are suddenly interested in something, he'll go over to investigate, and then he'll sit next to it and guard it and growl and the cats.

The thing he does that makes this case of possession a little unique (I assume since I can't find info on this particular behaviour) is that he will often pick something up and then take it over to one of the cats, sit it down in front of them and then sit and guard it as though he's saying "come on, try to take this, I dare you". The cats have never tried to take anything from him before, the most they'll do is smell whatever it is he's got and then walk away so I'm not sure why he does this. Obviously I don't actually know what he's thinking but I've observed his behaviour long enough to get an idea of what he's doing. Just to give you as clear a picture as I can, this is a step by step example of what he does. Lets say he finds a leaf in the house. He'll give it a sniff, pick it up, walk around looking for one of the cats, when he finds one he'll walk over to him/her, drop it infront of them then sit down and guard it. As soon as the cat tries to move, whether its to investigate or just move away cause he's making them uncomfortable, he starts to growl at them. Usually he'll sit there for quite a while, even if no one else is interested. Unless he hears a cat playing, he'll leave what he was guarding to investigate and if the cats playing with an object, he'll sit infront of it and stop the cat from playing with it. It seems like this is his way of asserting his dominance, but this is not what I want. I need him to be submissive towards the other furbies.

I've been trying to "retrain" him by reaffirming his place at the bottom of the hierarchy. I've been doing this by getting him to lay in a submissive position while I feed the cats infront of him (I fed them separately before I started doing this). Then once they're done I praise him and take him out to feed him as well. I seemed to be making some progress but the problem is that he doesn't just do this with food, he does it with everything. And the thing that's making it even more difficult is that he actually creates situations where he becomes possessive by finding something and then taking it over to a cat to "taunt" him/her with. I almost forgot to mention that when I don't allow him to eat before the cats or if i take something away that he's guarding and give it to the cats (trying to teach him that he has to share), he starts to shake uncontrollably and doesn't stop until the cats go away.

He is fine with the cats, in fact he has a special bond with 1 of the cats in particular, but when he decides he wants to claim something, its a different story.

I'm hoping someone can help with my dilema because I don't know how to change his behaviour. Am I thinking along the right lines with the way I'm trying to retrain him, am I totally off and possibly making it worse? I have no idea.

I've been trying to take a Cesar Millan approach.

A bit of background on him, I adopted him when he was 7 months, he's now about 2yrs old. He had 3 previous owners in his 7 months before he came to me and he was very timid. For example he hid under the car the entire time we were talking to his previous owner who we adopted him from. We met at a central location as we lived a fair way away from each other. He hid from anyone he was unfamiliar with, and still does that today though he's not as bad as he was when we were with him at the park that day. When we brought him home the first thing we did was let him out onto the property to explore his new home. When he walked past the jasmine on the fence he brushed up against it, yelped and leaped away from it. Anything that touched him that he didn't have forewarning of made him yelp whether it was brushing up against something, bumping into something, even the slightest touch of a tissue falling on him would startle him. He still does it today but its not as bad as it used to be.

Sometimes even just yelling at him for doing something he's not supposed to like stealing a sock or jumping up on the couch or sneaking into the kitchen makes him yelp.

He seemed to be a well looked after pup when we got him, and as I said he was only 7 months when we adopted him so It's hard to imagine that in such a short time he could have been mistreated to the point where he's high strung and possessive. He's not an aggressive dog, but when he's guarding something he starts to display aggressive behaviour. Luckily he doesn't show possessive aggression towards us, just to the other animals, but I'm worried that he'll eventually hurt and possibly even kill one of them.

Any help/advice you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Annette

[BarbedWire]

Your dog sounds like quite a character.

There's a really good book by Jean Donaldson titled Mine on resource guarding. I found it useful. I bought it online.

Good luck with it.

[Simply Grand]

A puppy that has been through four homes (including yours) at 7 months has had a tough and unsettled start to life. Whatever good intentions anyone had he didn't have a stable environment with consistency during important socialisation and development stages. He may well not have been "mistreated" per se but that unsettled life during those critical phases is plenty for him to develop issues. Having said that, he could certainly have actually been mistreated enough to cause serious issues in a 7 month period. He also will have been born with certain inherent temperament characteristics so could have had issues even in the most stable of environments from day 1.

He sounds horribly conflicted to me, like he maybe wants to be friends and "pack mates" with the cats but has this instinct to resource guard from them and has had all sorts of differing consequences to his behaviours so has no idea where he stands. I hate to say it but I suspect your Cesar Millan approach of trying to force him into submission to the cats have probably confused him more and made things worse

Dealing with resource guarding from other animals is very difficult. You cannot force them into a hierarchy amongst themselves. Your approach has to be to teach all the animals that resources are yours to control and you will calmly and consistently manage them amongst the animals so there is no need for any of them to guard anything. I would be very wary of using any sort of physical punishment, or even yelling, with a dog like this, there are ways to deal with resource guarding that are based on creating positive associations and using consistency and positive methods to change his mindset.

You really have a complex situation going on here now and you are going to need professional help to sort it out. If you tell us where you are located hopefully someone can recommend a good trainer who can help you. Good on you for trying to do the best for your little guy :)

ETA - if you don't get on top of this and he continues to be confused and conflicted it is highly likely to escalate into resource guarding from humans (you!) so you are definitely doing the right thing asking for help now!

Edited July 30, 2014 by Simply Grand

[JLPandFriends]

Your dog sounds like quite a character.

There's a really good book by Jean Donaldson titled Mine on resource guarding. I found it useful. I bought it online.

Good luck with it.

Thanks, he definitely is a character. I'll have to see if I can download the book, thanks for the info. =)

[VizslaMomma]

Hiyas,

I have an desexed english cocker spaniel male, 2yrs old who has possession aggression but only towards other animals. I adopted him when he was 7 months.

I've read a lot of articles and blogs about this but because my situation is a little bit unique I haven't been able to find any information regarding how to deal with this issue.

I'm hoping someone can help with my dilema because I don't know how to change his behaviour. Am I thinking along the right lines with the way I'm trying to retrain him, am I totally off and possibly making it worse? I have no idea.

I've been trying to take a Cesar Millan approach.

Cheers

Annette

Given what you went on to describe, I would stop the Cesar Milan approach yesterday. It's not exactly what the dog needs.

I would consider a trainer to do one on one with you. This will give you the confidence and will be a postive for the dog to stop his confusions.

He is so lucky to have you trying to look after him well.

:)

Edited September 4, 2014 by VizslaMomma

[persephone]

Ok -

What training /exercise does your dog do each day ? Does he go to teh beach, parks, shops? Does he know any tricks? :) Does he spend a lot of time at home alone- ?

Have you had his eyesight and hearing tested at all?

he seems to have a few problems , you have mentioned he startles, is timid ..and does odd things - poor lad -

I really think you are correct , and the problems in your household are not anything you, and "the internet" can comfortably fix.

It's good that you are doing research , and now, with what you know , you will better understand why you need personal help from a professional :)

I am not in a position to recommend anyone other than the team at K9 pro - they are fantastic with all things dog - and especially these sorts of happenings.

if you CLICK here you will get to info on Steve and the services provided .

It would also be a BIG advantage if you can get your dog checked out by a VETERINARY BEHAVIOURIST , as the signs he is showing may actually be coming from a disorder in his brain , or an illness ....

For recommendations of REPUTABLE and very experienced professionals - just ask on here - this is not a simple "training" issue - as you have found out ...

Edited July 30, 2014 by persephone

[JLPandFriends]

A puppy that has been through four homes (including yours) at 7 months has had a tough and unsettled start to life. Whatever good intentions anyone had he didn't have a stable environment with consistency during important socialisation and development stages. He may well not have been "mistreated" per se but that unsettled life during those critical phases is plenty for him to develop issues. Having said that, he could certainly have actually been mistreated enough to cause serious issues in a 7 month period. He also will have been born with certain inherent temperament characteristics so could have had issues even in the most stable of environments from day 1.

He sounds horribly conflicted to me, like he maybe wants to be friends and "pack mates" with the cats but has this instinct to resource guard from them and has had all sorts of differing consequences to his behaviours so has no idea where he stands. I hate to say it but I suspect your Cesar Millan approach of trying to force him into submission to the cats have probably confused him more and made things worse

Dealing with resource guarding from other animals is very difficult. You cannot force them into a hierarchy amongst themselves. Your approach has to be to teach all the animals that resources are yours to control and you will calmly and consistently manage them amongst the animals so there is no need for any of them to guard anything. I would be very wary of using any sort of physical punishment, or even yelling, with a dog like this, there are ways to deal with resource guarding that are based on creating positive associations and using consistency and positive methods to change his mindset.

You really have a complex situation going on here now and you are going to need professional help to sort it out. If you tell us where you are located hopefully someone can recommend a good trainer who can help you. Good on you for trying to do the best for your little guy :)

ETA - if you don't get on top of this and he continues to be confused and conflicted it is highly likely to escalate into resource guarding from humans (you!) so you are definitely doing the right thing asking for help now!

Ah yes that makes sense. I've been treating it as just a simple matter of training him but maybe in this particular case I need to seek professional help.

Poor guy. He's always happy and loves nothing more than to be next to us and even loves the cats, but when he decides he wants to guard something its almost like he's a different dog.

Yes I'd love some information on local trainers. They don't even need to be local, we can travel within an hour or 2 every couple of weeks. I live in the Blue Mountains, Hazelbrook NSW.

Thanks a lot for the advice. =)

[Salukifan]

JLP:

I've been trying to take a Cesar Millan approach.

I strongly suggest you stop it.

You have a resource guarder - quite an extreme one from what you've described but I gather he hasn't actually bitten anyone or anything. This behaviour has nothing to do with dominance. Indeed, the least socially confident dog here is the resource guarder.

Making your dog 'submit' won't solve it. You need to manage the behaviour and take steps to encourage your dog in other directions.

How much exercise does he get every day?

K9Pro is in your neck of the woods and definitely the person I'd recommend you consult.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[VizslaMomma]

Yes I'd love some information on local trainers. They don't even need to be local, we can travel within an hour or 2 every couple of weeks. I live in the Blue Mountains, Hazelbrook NSW.

Thanks a lot for the advice. =)

The very BEST is literally a stone's throw from you. Virtually you would need to swing a LEFT turn at Springwood and drive down to the Hawkesbury.

Perse mentioned them in her reply.

http://k9pro.com.au/services/

Read over the site. To cover yourself, consider a Vet check too for the boy.

Edited September 4, 2014 by VizslaMomma

[JLPandFriends]

Given what you went on to describe, I would stop the Cesar Milan approach yesterday. It's not exactly what the dog needs.

I would consider a trained to do one on one with you. This will give you the confidence and will be a postive for the dog to stop his confusions.

He is so lucky to have you trying to look after him well.

:)

Thank you. Yes the Cesar Millan approach doesn't seem to be working which is why I am posting for help here. =)

I hoped to be able to help him myself, but it seems like professional help might be my only real solution.

Ok -

What training /exercise does your dog do each day ? Does he go to teh beach, parks, shops? Does he know any tricks? :) Does he spend a lot of time at home alone- ?

Have you had his eyesight and hearing tested at all?

he seems to have a few problems , you have mentioned he startles, is timid ..and does odd things - poor lad -

I really think you are correct , and the problems in your household are not anything you, and "the internet" can comfortably fix.

It's good that you are doing research , and now, with what you know , you will better understand why you need personal help from a professional :)

I am not in a position to recommend anyone other than the team at K9 pro - they are fantastic with all things dog - and especially these sorts of happenings.

if you CLICK here you will get to info on Steve and the services provided .

It would also be a BIG advantage if you can get your dog checked out by a VETERINARY BEHAVIOURIST , as the signs he is showing may actually be coming from a disorder in his brain , or an illness ....

For recommendations of REPUTABLE and very experienced professionals - just ask on here - this is not a simple "training" issue - as you have found out ...

He has basic training, he sits, stays, lays down, he wont eat unless i tell him to even if i put the food right on his nose. He goes for a 40min walk every day and is never home alone. I have never had cause to have his sight and hearing tested but my vet has never mentioned anything when we've taken him for checkups. I have wondered if he has ADD thought because he can't stay focused for more than a few seconds most of the times.

Thank you for the info, will definitely have a look at those links. =)

[JLPandFriends]

JLP:

I've been trying to take a Cesar Millan approach.

This behaviour has nothing to do with dominance. Indeed, the least socially confident dog here is the resource guarder.

That's very interesting!

Why is it do you think that he feels the need to guard things? (not just food, he guards everything)

I figured that the act of actually taking something over to one of the cats, laying it in front of them and then guarding it from them was a display of dominance. Why do you think he might be doing that? It seems like an odd thing for him to do if he's the least confident.

Yes I'd love some information on local trainers. They don't even need to be local, we can travel within an hour or 2 every couple of weeks. I live in the Blue Mountains, Hazelbrook NSW.

Thanks a lot for the advice. =)

The very BEST is literally a stone's throw from you. Virtually you would need to swing a LEFT turn at Springwood and drive down to the Hakwesbury.

Perse mentioned them in her reply.

http://k9pro.com.au/services/

Read over the site. To cover yourself, consider a Vet check too for the boy.

Thanks for that! Almost everyone has recommended K9pro so looks like that might be the go. =)

Edited July 30, 2014 by JLPandFriends

[Simply Grand]

Definitely worth a vet check but I suspect he feels stressed a lot of the time and that's partly why he has trouble staying focused on you.

I think it will be well worth talking to K9 Pro about putting together a new training approach, which will really be more of a lifestyle approach, for the whole household, that will hopefully make things less stressful for all of you :)

[persephone]

Why is it do you think that he feels the need to guard things? (not just food, he guards everything)

:) that sort of question is why a good professional's advice is so valuable - it is what they have studied and learned ,and worked with ..

it's like going to a specialist if the first aid kit and/or GP can't fix a problem :)

[Simply Grand]

JLP:

I've been trying to take a Cesar Millan approach.

This behaviour has nothing to do with dominance. Indeed, the least socially confident dog here is the resource guarder.

That's very interesting!

Why is it do you think that he feels the need to guard things? (not just food, he guards everything)

I figured that the act of actually taking something over to one of the cats, laying it in front of them and then guarding it from them was a display of dominance. Why do you think he might be doing that? It seems like an odd thing for him to do if he's the least confident.

Some dogs are born with an inherited tendency towards severe resource guarding. I've seen more than one 7 or 8 week old puppy be super cute and cuddly until a bowl of food goes down then instantly snap into severe aggression towards humans to guard that food, then snap straight back to cuddly puppy mode when that food goes away. I've no doubt that's innate behaviour, not learned. It tends to be really obvious with food as it's such a valuable resource but can easily apply to any item the dog views as valuable, and easily escalates if not managed properly.

Re taking things over to the cats then guarding then, it's hard to know without seeing it but I'd suspect that, as I mentioned, he's really conflicted. I'd say there is an element that he is excited about his fun toy and does actually want to start a game, but then when he gets there his instincts tell him actually no, I better guard it or I'll lose it.

The other thing I'd suspect is that your holding him down while the cats eat has created an even more unpleasant association for him - as in now when there is a resource (food) around and the cats are there he not only doesn't get the food but also gets held down uncomfortably without understanding why, so now however much he night want to invite the cats to join in his game, he's now worried about losing his resource AND being held down so actually he'd better try even harder to scare everyone away from him when he has something valuable.

ETA obviously I'm just theorising, someone watching the behaviour and assessing the whole big picture would be able to give you a more accurate idea.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Simply Grand

[VizslaMomma]

Thank you. Yes the Cesar Millan approach doesn't seem to be working which is why I am posting for help here. =)

I hoped to be able to help him myself, but it seems like professional help might be my only real solution.

But this is what will happen WHEN you get the guidance. You will be trained to learn to help him.

For starters, it's great you have decided to get help.

In learning to train dogs we humans often need another human to guide us and give us the benefit of their knowledge because they are seeing the behaviours of both human & dog. Reading gives the ideas to start.

:)

[JLPandFriends]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to give me your input and advice. Very much appreciated. =)

I've had a look at the k9pro site and decided to give them a call so hopefully I can book some time with them soon to get the ball rolling.

[persephone]

terrific news :) hope it goes well.

[Kavik]

Glad you are going to get help :)

I think a vet visit would also be a good idea, just to make sure you aren't dealing with something medical as well - neurological/sight/hearing etc.