staffylovers Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Hi.... Our American Staffy is almost 16 weeks old, we have had him for 8 weeks. Can anyone offer advice on stop biting techniques and house training please? He bites when he gets excited; when some comes home after work, when he wants to play or seeking attention or when he gets cranky. We don't like to hold his muzzle as that makes him upset but we say firm NO twice and then put him in 'time out'. Generally that works but not 100%. Again, he uses his piddle pads or goes outside on most occassions but sometimes he sniffs around and then decides he is going to release himself wherever it suits him. He is in the house most of the day...with one of us for companionship. He cannot go out and about freely as he has not received his last vac. However, that will be very soon!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffles Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 (edited) We have an Amstaff pup who's 19 weeks tomorrow. Loki, although house trained also does the occasional 'no ones watching I'll just pee here' thing. I do not know why! We just take him to where he is supposed to go as soon as he does it then he has time out there. Apparently they are just hard to toilet train. He is getting better though so perhaps just give him a chance... As for the biting, Loki has bitten twice (on purpose) not hard however. I just hold his mouth closed for a moment, sternly tell him NO then cease any activity with him like time out. We have done this with both our dogs and they seem to have gotten the idea that biting doesnt get attention. I know I probably havent helped but thats just my personal experience Edited February 15, 2006 by Ruffles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 (edited) Staffylover: Staffylovers: We don't like to hold his muzzle as that makes him upset ... :rolleyes: Sounds like he's got you sorted out already....... Staffylovers: He bites when he gets excited; when some comes home after work, when he wants to play or seeking attention or when he gets cranky. ..... and that he's learnt how to get YOU to give HIM what HE wants, but not the other way around. Staffylovers: but we say firm NO twice and then put him in 'time out'. Generally that works but not 100%. It's not JUST about stopping the behaviour at THAT moment, but about generally weakening the behaviour as time goes on, so the pup becomes less and less inclined to mouth. IMO 'Sin-binning' (as opposed to what many people refer to as 'time-out') is a good method, provided it serves to reduce the frequency and intensity of the behaviour, until the behaviour is extinguished altogether. Staffylovers: sometimes he sniffs around and then decides he is going to release himself wherever it suits him. Housetraining takes vigilance. You need to be watchful of him when he's inside ... looking for those early warning signs that tell you he's thinking of toileting. Restrict access to any of the other rooms of the house other than the one you're in. That way, you can keep better watch. Take him out first thing; after play; after feeding; after sleep; and at any other time if he simply hasn't been for a while. If you're vigilant, housetraining GENERALLY takes about 2 weeks (can be earlier for some, a bit longer for others) before you see the signs that he knows what he's supposed to do. Once he starts to take himself outside, don't think housetraining is over. A dog shouldn't be considered "housetrained" until there's been no accidents inside for at least 4 weeks after the pup has shown the initial signs that he understands about going outside. Make sure you take your pup to the same spot each time and as much as possible, get HIM to walk out (call him out or use lead, for example) rather than pick him up and carry him. Naturally, lots of praise when he wees outside. You can also introduce a 'cue' word - this will be handy for you later on. Staffylovers: He cannot go out and about freely as he has not received his last vac. However, that will be very soon! There are still many people who believe this, and I will not start a debate on the subject here, as it has been done in length on DOL before. However, IMO, pups lose valuable socialisation time within their critical period this way. (Critical period generally, but not always, finishes at week 16.) It is my opinion, and experience, that dogs end up much more prepared for life if sensible and positive socialisation begins from 8 weeks old. I see your pup has someone with him the majority of the time - don't forget about independence training so your pup doesn't become dependent on the presence of someone all the time and then become panicked when this is not possible. Ruffles: Ruffles: 'no ones watching I'll just pee here' thing. I'd suggest house training was not completed (read response to Staffylover above). You should continue house training and not allow your dog in the house where he cannot be supervised. Edited February 15, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffles Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Loki's not 100% housetrained obviously but he has this nasty habit of not giving any warning at all... no sniffing nothing just walks then pee's then walks. Very annoying! I think its more of a dominance thing but he is learning, as I said apparently they are stubborn and take a long time to toilet train. We are definately still at it :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 (edited) Ruffles: Loki's not 100% housetrained obviously ... Ruffles - If Loki is not 100% housetrained, then he still shouldn't be left unobserved. Ruffles: but he has this nasty habit of not giving any warning at all... no sniffing nothing just walks then pee's then walks. ... I think its more of a dominance thing but he is learning ... IF your own observations are reliable, then this might be marking, rather than housetraining issues. If it is, then I'd recommend you investigate your heirarchy status as perceived by him. :rolleyes: Also watch you don't use ammonia based products to clean up the mess. Edited February 15, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffles Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 he isnt left unsupervised... Its hard to explain... There aren't any issues with my OH and I. He knows we are the bosses, it'd be our Female Princess even though she's hardly in the house. He is getting better so its not like he does it 5 times a day, its maybe once a week - if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffyutopia Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Hi Ruffles, I understand completely, I myself have a 15wk old staffy pup that i bred myself. We have a mum & a male that also live comfortably in my home. Lately meaning the last week, Lotti, my pup, has gone to the opposite side of the room squatted while walking & watching me. I go straight to her but by the time I'm there she's finished & has headed straight to the back door where she knows is her next place she'll be. See not dumb!!!! :D She has me bewildered as I know she knows what she's doing is a No No. She also has a bad habit of mouthing at our face when she does it we give her a firm NO & she's sent straight to her crate. Its slowly becoming less of a habit but its consistency that counts. I'm with you on the piddling.... It drives yu crazy. :D Ok then cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffylovers Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 Erny, thanks for the info We have taken our little man to puppy school for basic training and for the opportunity to socialise with other pups. We also take him out for a drive every now and again. Soon, very soon he will be out and about...displaying his skills no doubt :D Overall he is a 'good boy'...he listens to commands (on most occassions) but we obviously have to work on the areas requiring further training...just like kids. Erny, do you think the 'time out' process is the most effective for biting or misbehavious? Or are there other methods you have found more effective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Ruffles: he isnt left unsupervised... Ruffles - Sorry - I obviously misread this part of your post .... Ruffles: Loki, ... does the occasional 'no ones watching I'll just pee here' thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Lately ... my pup has gone to the opposite side of the room squatted while walking & watching me. I go straight to her but by the time I'm there she's finished & has headed straight to the back door where she knows is her next place she'll be. Although sometimes difficult to detect, close watching and learning the ways of your pup will help you identify early signs that you might now be missing. For example, I can tell when my girl is thinking of urinating by the way she slightly alters the walk with her back legs. I'd suggest, because those early signs are being missed, your catching your pup too late and hence the accident occurs ... and hence the habit continues. :D Staffyutopia: She has me bewildered as I know she knows what she's doing is a No No. Or perhaps she's learnt the sequence is: 1. I pee. 2. I go outside. Rather than: 1. I go outside. 2. I pee. Staffyutopia: She also has a bad habit of mouthing at our face when she does it we give her a firm NO & she's sent straight to her crate. Just a hint here - her crate should NEVER be used as a place of punishment. By all means, "sin-bin" her, but use a place other than a spot that is meant to represent her 'safe-haven'. Eg. Toilet (close the lid and remove the toilet roll :D ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Firstly get rid off the piddle pads,this only confuses them as your saying he can go inside but he should asking/access outside & all efforts should be put into training outside . As someone is home during the day this will be so easy,just quick visits outside side with a keyword'Wees or "Toilets" Many people make the mistake off when getting home greeting the dog so over the top that dog reacts to this & continues,come home walk in & ignore. A good training schol will teach you alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 (edited) Erny, do you think the 'time out' process is the most effective for biting or misbehavious? Or are there other methods you have found more effective? Staffylovers - sorry, I missed this post earlier. "Sin-binning" is a good method if it works to successively reduce and finally diminish the behaviour. If your pup continues to come back at you and mouth at the same frequency and intensity, then I'd suggest, on its own, it is not enough. There are other methods which you can use singularly, or if necessary, in conjunction with sin-binning. However, those methods should be demonstrated to you and used only after the puppy has been seen and assessed by an instructor/trainer/behaviourist qualified for the job. :D As I mentioned earlier - I don't refer to an 'isolation punishment' as "time-out". To me, "time-out" is simply putting pup somewhere not unpleasant, but in a place where it will calm down. To me, "sin-binning" is a more appropriate term for isolation as a punishment. Just so's we're clear and not talking cross purposes. :D ETA: If your puppy school is conducted by instructor/s who have a sound knowledge and understanding of puppy behaviour and dog psychology, they should be able to help you out. If not, then I'd recommend you seek out a training club/puppy school that can properly advise and assist you. What State/area are you in? Edited February 15, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffylovers Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 Thanks Erny. Puppy school is over for us...it only lasts for 4 weeks. I will have to find a training school to better educate our pup and us. We're based in Sydney. The time out area is our front verandah, we have blocked it off and we place him there when he is 'naughty'. Although he likes being outside he does not like it so much when he is out there on his own. We selected this area so that he does not associate it with his play or sleep areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsong Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 not to hijack this thread but can anyone tell me how to stop a 9 month old puppy from biting you? He snaps at your clothes (and I know this because if he gets flesh, he'll loosen a bit until he only has your clothes in his jaws), and then he pulls...and he's a relatively strong dog...and if he does that to a young child... and sometimes he misses and bites hard on your flesh...if you turn around he bites your butt.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I will have to find a training school to better educate our pup and us. We're based in Sydney. For classes and/or private lessons, I'd recommend Steve Austin @ Hanrob Kennels. For private lessons, of course K9Force is a popular choice. He's also DOL member and can be PM'd for contact. Links for each are: Steve Austin - Hanrob Kennels K9Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 ... can anyone tell me how to stop a 9 month old puppy from biting you? He snaps at your clothes (and I know this because if he gets flesh, he'll loosen a bit until he only has your clothes in his jaws), and then he pulls...and he's a relatively strong dog...and if he does that to a young child... and sometimes he misses and bites hard on your flesh...if you turn around he bites your butt.. Methods should IMO be shown, rather than described. The method/s used and/or their intensity is dependant on your dog's disposition, so your obedience instructor should be able to help you. If he/she can't, I would suggest you search for one/those that can, and/or arrange a private behaviourist consultation at home. Apart from methods to use to extinguish the symptoms, it's also necessary to investigate why the dog is continuing to mouth/bite and cover other anomolies which could be contributing to your dog's behaviour (I already have my suspicions ). What area do you live in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffylovers Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 Thanks for the info Erny. I have heard of Hanrobs. The vet mentioned it today, along with one in the Sutherland Shire and the St George district. These probably don't mean anything to you...as you are Melbourne based...aren't you? Our pup was such a good boy today, he has pee'd (LOL) outside on all occassions and has been very well behaved, even if he is teething! We can't show him, yep b/c he is not a pedigree, etc but if we take him to group training he can have heaps of fun with agility training, etc. I hope....does anyone have any input re group training? Is this another way to inject money into a worthless program or is it genuinely fun, great exercise and a social event? Gee, I have to stop writing a thesis...sorry everyone. I'm just 'a little' excited! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) ... if we take him to group training he can have heaps of fun with agility training, etc. I hope....does anyone have any input re group training? Is this another way to inject money into a worthless program or is it genuinely fun, great exercise and a social event? Group training is excellent, and IMO, necessary for the pet/companion dog. It exposes them, on a regular basis, to other dogs, different people, noises in and around the environment, general traffic (both vehicles and people in crowds) etc. etc. and teaches them the self control necessary to behave in their presence. Something you won't necessarily achieve if you don't generalise your training to these sorts of environments. The classes should be fun - but remember, some of the fun responsibility is yours. You should share the joy of your dog's successes in even the most simple of exercises such as the "sit", as well as the fun in "release" time between exercises, when you bring out your dog's favourite motivator and have a game with him/her - his/her reward for doing a good job. ;) The most boring training exercises I've witnessed is when people have lost this thrill, and refuse to spend the energy in having a good time with their dog. Yes - "fun" will depend a lot on how the instructor runs the class, but also it's about your attitude and about whether you can delight in your dog's achievements (even the very small ones) and whether you can share with your dog the enjoyment that should follow. If you do experience any hurdles in training, you should be able to speak to your instructor either before, after or during class and your instructor should be versed enough to give you some tips to help you through any difficulties. With REALLY sticky problems, sometimes a private lesson can assist greatly to get you through them more quickly, so you can continue to improve and progress through your classes without too much delay. Staffylovers: ...you are Melbourne based...aren't you? Yep ... and if you were too, I'd be jumping up and down recommending Australian Dog Training (and me!) to you! Edited February 17, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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