snobbybobby Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 from memory citronella plants can be poisionous to dogs if they eat it and some dogs can have an allergic reaction to citronella oil from the sprays. kind of off topic :D Still doesn't really answer my question! P'haps I didn't pose it properly ) Which is more noxious to the dog and which is more likely to cause the dog to change tack?? A Dog receiving an electric shock or a noxious smell??? The electric shock is via the neck of the animal and would be equal to the same sensation should a human apply the shock collar to his/her own neck and not a wrist as some would want. Just my humble question! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 electric shock such big words for such a insignificant stimulation.Have you ever tried the ecollar on yourself sb? Just to add I have tried the anti barking collar on my neck - the output of that is aprox 50 times stonger than the ecollar. Im still alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamuzz Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 electric shock such big words for such a insignificant stimulation.Have you ever tried the ecollar on yourself sb? Just to add I have tried the anti barking collar on my neck - the output of that is aprox 50 times stonger than the ecollar. Im still alive But you don't know which state you are in.... maybe this explains everything :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 both can be harmfull in the wrong hands as can any training impliment, i personally wouldnt use a citronella collar with my e-collar i have the level set on 3 whilst training...with the e-collar around my own neck i dont feel anything till its on level 4 and even then its only a slight tickle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 as to my dogs reaction. Well the male wags the tail when I get the collar out so I guess he is happy. Never cringes when stimmed. Hangs around me with the collar on his neck. I have burned a citronella candle on my verandah a while ago as there were plenty of mosquitoes, dogs where nowhere to be found. We tried draging them out to stay with us, they were NOT HAPPY.. Personal observations only of course. I think Id personally rather have a TENS machine applied to me (the one physio use) rather than have someone spraying stinking deodorant in my face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 But you don't know which state you are in.... I think it was K9 that didnt know where I am maybe this explains everything :D Never underestimate long term effects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 The qualified trainers required in Victoria are as listed by the Department of Primary Industries.1. Australian Association of Gentle Modern Dog Training Instructors 2. Victorian Canine Association 3. Australian Association of Professional Dog Trainers Inc. 4. Delta Society Australia As at September 2004. At this time NDTF had not applied for qualification with the DPI. Thanks for that, Sonic. I believe that NDTF has applied for and attained qualification with the DPI now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snobbybobby Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Just to add I have tried the anti barking collar on my neck - the output of that is aprox 50 times stonger than the ecollar. Im still alive Well, you should be because citronella isn't harmful to humans or canines, On the other hand - an electric shock delivered to the wrong area or the body can be harmful! You state that, as a physiotherapist, you have seen tens machines work against painful stimuli! Goodee!!! Have you seen the same machines "work" on other nerves??? You leave me cold as a physio!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 On the other hand - an electric shock delivered to the wrong area or the body can be harmful! when was the last time you have used an e-collar or were consulted on the use of one by a professional dog trainer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 (edited) Well, you should be because citronella isn't harmful to humans or canines,On the other hand - an electric shock delivered to the wrong area or the body can be harmful! Perhaps you shoudl read a bit more carefull I didnt say I tried the citronella anti barking collar. So you know it was an electronic antibarking collar, the one that issues the "electric shock" when activated by the sound. You state that, as a physiotherapist, you have seen tens machines work against painful stimuli!Goodee!!! Did I? Show me where pls. Have you seen the same machines "work" on other nerves???You leave me cold as a physio!!! Yes I have, I have used equipement delivering curent to stimulate nerves that in effect contract muscles. It doesnt hurt, well unless you put the stim on a level way to high. As Jeff mentioned an ecollar, as any tool if used inapropiatelly can be harmfull.. Just so you know - tens machnes are there to stimulate the muscles it is the ultrasounds that work agains the pain by "killing" the nerve endings. I guess I will be leaving the physio debate, cold or hot, as its totally off topic. and all you are trying to do is to Edited September 14, 2006 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 This is the Material Safety Data Sheet MSDS on Citronella SECTION VI - HEALTH HAZARD DATA PRIMARY ROUTES OF ENTRY: PRODUCT CAN ENTER VIA INHALATION, INGESTION, OR SKIN CONTACT. EFFECTS OF ACUTE OVEREXPOSURE EYES - MAY CAUSE IRRITATION SKIN - PROLONGED CONTACT MAY CAUSE DERMATITIS BREATHING- VAPORS MAY IRRITATE SWALLOWING- MAY CAUSE STOMACH IRRITATION HEALTH HAZARDS - LIQUID MAY IRRITATE SKIN AND EYES EMERGENCY AND FIRST AID PROCEDURES IF ON SKIN - WASH WITH SOAP AND WATER IF IN EYES - FLUSH WITH WATER, LIFTING UPPER AND LOWER LIDS OCCASIONALLY. IF SWALLOWED - RINSE MOUTH WITH WATER; SEEK MEDICAL ADVICE IF INHALED - REMOVE TO FRESH AIR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 (edited) an electric shock delivered to the wrong area or the body can be harmful! If you knew RT's or e-collars, you'd know for descriptive purposes it's less of an electric "shock" and more of a "stimulation" (albeit aversive/unpleasant). That aside, I wonder where you think we're going to put the collar? :D Any training equipment/tool/aid (yes, even a flat collar) applied "to the wrong area of the body can be harmful". Ergo your statement above is a bit latent. Edited September 14, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I too have 'tested' an electronic bark collar on myself, and while it wasn't pleasant it wasn't painful. Given that dogs have a higher pain/discomfort threshold than us, and we have a lower sense of smell than a dog...and I would find the electronic device less unpleasant that having citronella sprayed up my nose, I think it is pretty obvious what would be less disturbing to the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Given that dogs have a higher pain/discomfort threshold than us, and we have a lower sense of smell than a dog...and I would find the electronic device less unpleasant that having citronella sprayed up my nose, I think it is pretty obvious what would be less disturbing to the dog. I agree - and the stimulus from the e-collar ceases immediately, whereas the affect of the citronella scent would linger in the dog's nasal passages longer .... even after the unwanted behaviour has stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snobbybobby Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I guess I will be leaving the physio debate, cold or hot, as its totally off topic. and all you are trying to do is to Well then, do you have an answer??? Are dog nervous systems any different to our own? Because you are using nerve stimuli without saying how!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 (edited) Are dog nervous systems any different to our own? Are dog scent systems different to our own ? (if sense of smell is a 'scent system' that is what I am referring to) I'm sure you know the answer to that one snobbybobby :D Edited September 14, 2006 by sunny70 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonic Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Ernie Said: Thanks for that, Sonic. I believe that NDTF has applied for and attained qualification with the DPI now. Thanks Erny, I knew my info was old which is why I put the date on it. Myska, it is a case of people applying and being approved by the DPI, not just someone from the DPI understanding their years of experience and putting them on the list. If they don't apply, it doesn't matter how good people believe the likes of Steve Austin or Garry Sommervile are, they will never be on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Sonic I wouldnt be surprised as those two man I mentioned have no intentions of applying.. Thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 Well then, do you have an answer??? Are dog nervous systems any different to our own? What is the point of your question as far as it relates to the debate pertaining to electronic training systems, Snobbybobby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 I just wanted to point something out to everyone SB writes You state that, as a physiotherapist, after I have put this sentece I think Id personally rather have a TENS machine applied to me (the one physio use) rather than have someone spraying stinking deodorant in my face. Now how on earth would anyone straight away assume Im a physio??? It so just happends that I am qualified as a physio but I also have a feeling that this person has been having this discussion with us a while ago under a different login. A thread about NZ Police springs to my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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