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You would need to ask Hilton he knew the lines, too far back for me. Sadly he has passed. Ask dogs NSW if if they still have the book Hilton is mentioned in, it has lots of the early history of the breeders Why are you ignoring the very different physique of ACD v ASTCD? Also are you aware that breeding stumpy tail to stumpy tail parents Means two copies in a pup is lethal. Hence stumpy to tailed stumpy yields bigger live litters

To date, I still fail to find any differences behind those 2, long and short tail, that's paddock talk. I know that stumpies are pricing on the high side, however I believe it's just posh and clumsy marketing. Feel.free to check out what kennel clubs say about them. They say short tails don't get caught in gates and also say they have better balance in a tight space. Thing is, if I had a tail myself, I reckon it'd improve my balance drastically, look at kangaroos for example, why is this animal has the reputation to be an excellent boxer? Because they would never kiss the mat, simple. Let me ask you one thing. The pups and grown ups you had then as protectors, were they Bagust's or Bentley's strains?

Sorryeveryone. Double post.

https://7news.com.au/news/german-shepherd-left-limping-and-bleeding-after-vicious-dog-attack-in-maddington-c-20554066

https://7news.com.au/news/german-shepherd-left-limping-and-bleeding-after-vicious-dog-attack-in-maddington-c-20554066

https://www.9news.com.au/national/sydney-camperdown-dog-attack-man-fights-for-life/673fd6f8-7be1-4b42-997f-7da34004ff5b

I don't know about where you are LG, but in Sydney, nearly all of the emergency vet clinics are now owned by one corporate or another... purely profit driven, so any excuse for a markup is applied... *sigh* That said, when Zeddy decided that midnight on a Sunday was her time, I took her to ARH in Homebush and actually ended up paying a few dollars LESS than my local vet would have charged during business hours. Maybe because I was not hysterical or mumbling about cost, and after leaving the consult room with only a collar and lead, I chatted with some people with a cat with some scary neurological issues and convinced them that it would be best for them to leave her in the clinic overnight... maybe any one or more of those factors came into play when my bill was tallied up? Far different story with Pickles at VSOS in Miranda... the concerted effort to upsell when clearly she wasn't going to get better was atrocious, and they charged more than double what ARH had charged for Zeddy when they finally realised I wasn't going to capitulate to futile and expensive experiments on my clearly very poorly dog, then the next day I got an email AND a text asking me how Pickles was going after her visit... someone clearly forgot to mark her as deceased on their system... grrr! No apology when I called and informed them either. T.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-03-01/strata-pet-rules-across-australia-as-high-density-housing-rises/104975726

Do you realise there are other stumpies, larger with wire coat. My friend has them, he bought from breeders in Qld n NSW. He calls them Smithfield's He has had them on and off for fifty years, always wire coated No one has applied to have them ANKC recognised He has never had a problem finding a replacement when he wants another when the old one dies Are U going to include them? Have existed parallel to the others Tony said

I've been using the same privately owned vet hospital for years and know there are expectations that they have the latest equipment and technology, but of course then people say they are too expensive! Strangely, as a long term customer who listens to what they tell me and respects their skills and hard work, I often get little freebies from them - extra tests they want to run but didn't ask for approval for don't get charged and they might give me a free cream they've made up themselves to try on a rash. I even have a 10% off VIP card! I was shocked though when I had to use one of those big mobs for Albert (they'd done work on him while he was in rescue and I thought it might be a related issue). I came out of that appointment upsold in ways I have never been upsold before AND I drove and hour to get there. Silly me! I've also used specialist vets - one charged through every orifice they own (and the first so called specialist I saw there misdiagnosed something life threatening) while the other was always minimising costs wherever they could. They even told me about a dermatologist specialist and my doggo could have skin things burnt off in batches rather than repeated surgeries to remove once they got bigger. That actually saved a huge amount of money and a lot of trauma and healing time for my boy. But of course it is hard to shop around when you are in a crisis and at your closest emergency after hours vet dealing with a life and death situation, not being sure you can afford the bill. So maybe some standards could be good. I'm assuming a business will get categorised based on the services they can offer and hospital types with all their fancy equipment will be acknowledged as different to some of the hole in the wall types around where I live. I'll be honest too - why do after hours cost so much? Apart from staff wages that will be different, does it cost more in power, equipment or supplies? I do feel like they take the piss a little. The difference in cost between when my girl was pts first thing upon opening by my usual vet and my boy at the emergency vet (which was his specialist centre during the day) was about 3 times the cost for the same assessment and euth services. Both used the same equipment to assess and 'treat' and likely number of staff. Maybe it is a question I should ask my vet at some stage so I can understand more. I certainly don't begrudge paying for skilled services by supportive professionals but fairness is also important.

Different clinic setups will have different running costs. A clinic with all the latest diagnostic equipment and multiple vets and nurses will have much higher upkeep costs than a smaller one man clinic with only an xray machine, a basic blood testing machine, and only one or two nurses. Something as basic as rent in whatever area the clinic is situated in can make a difference in what prices must be charged to cover the outlay also. I do support making it known if a clinic is part of a big chain company though, as those clinics are generally much more profit driven than a smaller one man operation. I don't think that the problem is actually so much about the costs of treating our pet... it's that expectations from owners can sometimes be unrealistic if wanting gold class service/treatment options for bargain basement prices (which may be all they can afford). For anyone who may still be confused about the realities of working in the veterinary industry, I suggest you read some of the submissions made to the 2023 NSW Inquiry into the veterinary workforce shortage... https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/committees/inquiries/Pages/inquiry-details.aspx?pk=2964#tab-submissions WARNING: Some of the submissions in the link above may be confronting and distressing to read. T.

She had no other bloodlines accessible once the ANKC had deregistered all other ASTCD breeder's She made it worse by never selling any on main registration's to anyone else so nothing available save what she kept. .the two types have always been very different, square v longer than tall, lighter Kelpie type v heavier Even with a full tail a stumpy is obvious

A friend bought a pup from me, was about ten months later he rang me voice shaking in shock. "I think Jesse just saved my life" He had been walking along the path beside the Nepean river, which he and Jessie do every day. She loved meeting people for a pat, especially the children. But this day to his surprise she stopped walking at heel and dropping back behind him began growling. He turned to see what she was growling at and to his shock staring at a man holding a knife, the second Jessie knew he saw the man was threatening him she leapt to attack, he caught her and as she struggled to attack the idiot with the knife finally realised Jessie would attack the second she could break free and turned and ran. They can read people's body language as surely as stock.. First thing I impressed on Mick he must train her properly as cattledog's like all herding breeds were bred for initiative . If he didn't, she would train him.

The ACD was always dual purpose, working dog on stock and guardian of their owner and family as well as possessions. I was never allowed to go anywhere unless my dad's dog Blue was with me, no one could approach me unless Blue recognised them as family or friend. when Hilton gave my daughter Berrilyn Blur debutant, even when baby and puppy were ten months old Debbie guarded my daughter's nappy when she dropped it. Hilton had given my daughter's eldest brother a puppy 16 years earlier, Debbie was a grandaughter of that pup . . We gave her brother one of Debbie's pups and when he married and brought his daughter home Bennie and his daughter Rosie assumed guard duty soon as he introduced them to his baby daughter. He rang me 3 days later to apologise for never believing my story that when I was sent to the corner shop with blue as escort, people would cross the road, rather than come within 15 foot of blue and me. He said sue wanted to go for a walk and Benny and Rosie instead of staying at heel went straight to the front either side of the pram despite him telling them to return to heel. As they walked he realised people coming the other way were crossing the street. To see why he went to the other side and level with the dogs. To his amazement as a person walked towards sue and the pram, soon as they began to come less than 20 feet both dogs lifted their lips to show teeth, the person crossed the road. Which was what I had as a child realised Blue had done so many decades before protecting me. When there aren't stock to work a good cattledog will curl up at the door and guard you, your family, your home and anything it associates as yours, put your scent on something, to your dog, that's yours now. Before cars your dog guarded your horse, swag and goods. Good car n ute guards Many a tradie has his ACD to ensure no tools go missing Why you don't see cattledog's in a backyard trying to round up birds like u see Kelpies and border collie's that aren't dual purpose and don't have a herding off button .

The UK’s Competition and Markets Authority has released a plan calling for reforms to the veterinary sector, to prevent pet owners being surprised by unexpected bills. i have mixed feelings about this, and the possibility of similar reforms here in Australia. Vet bills can quickly add up to thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars, which could be financially devastating… or emotionally devastating, if the alternative Is euthanasia. On the other hands, I don’t think most vet practices are making large profits, so imposing additional regulations might force some practices out of business. https://www.vettimes.com/news/business/practice-developments/cma-unveils-plan-for-major-reforms-of-veterinary-sector

Thanks for sharing that poem and your thoughts, they were a good read and I get where you’re coming from. What I’d like to add before closing this discussion is that today the official stance from dog societies is to treat the Australian Cattle Dog and the Australian Stumpy Tail Cattle Dog as two separate breeds. From my research and what I’ve seen in the field, they both carry the same genetic foundation. I recognise two strains within the breed, but I don’t accept the ASTCD as truly separate. Iris Heal, despite her place in history, achieved her result through heavy inbreeding between Bagust stock, not from the OG stumpy type. The Bentley or Queensland strain carries distinct features that set it apart from the Bagust and Kaleski lines, and people need to understand that this old nineteenth century patrimony was never meant to be a pet. Without work and purpose, those dogs lose themselves.

Last comment 2020 Wonder how many available Australia wide now

Stumbled on this and the poem, change for changes sake isn't always a good thing... "On a recent poke around the 2nd hand bookstore in Corryong, I found a little treasure written by Neil Hulm. "Where the Snow Grass Grows". His family has had a strong connection and presence in the mountains since before it became a park. I wanted to share one of his poems. A MOUNTAIN HERITAGE LOST Could I be told what a heritage is, Surely it's something we see, Is it to hold, or give away? That's not the way it strikes me. We must have parks, reserves and such, essential, I would think we all agree, But without any votes, a handful of blokes Can close land, from the Plains to the Sea. A fair control is a different role, But the grazing stopped, shut down. Have you ever known of country men For heritage, close down a town? PACK HORSES, PACK SADDLES, GREEN HIDE ROPES, HUTS, SALT LOGS AND HORSE PADDOCK RAILS, STOCKYARDS, DOGS, SHEEP AND CATTLE, AND LONELY STEEP STOCK TRAILS!! Bush fires now burn red hot and turn to black dust, that was thick grass and sticks. Controlled burn was slow on lease years ago, The snow grass remained firm and thick. One heritage strongly guarded, While another one thrown away. In the same place, on the mountain face One banished, the other will stay. Swarms of bees in the Snow Gum trees, Honey birds hover and sing, The beautiful scent from the heather And the herbage that flowers in Spring. 'HUTS, SALT LOGS, HORSE PADDOCK RAILS, STOCK TRAILS, LONELY AND STEEP!!' SURELY, AN AUSTRALIAN HERITAGE LOST, WE FOUGHT FOR, BUT FAILED TO KEEP. Neil Hulm Cochran Horse Treks Peter on Sparkie at the Man from Snowy River Festival Reenactment 2019. National parks so badly managed we watched them burn from Victoria to Sydney, billions of native animals died along with rfs volunteers and families, all land once managed by locals until seized by Govt and given to idiots to mismanage.. Same is happening to all pet owners, govt micromanagement to the point PETA spokesperson boasted "legislation passed to date has been so successful l we anticipate domestic dogs and cats will be extinct within this generation " Sadly you may be documenting the end days of pet ownership if pet owners and blindsided pollies don't wake up in time, or is it too late already?

When I was a kid in the 1950's any cattle dog that didn't have any eye patches was called a Merle. (Absolutely nothing to do with the coat colour of other breeds) Has been so until fairly recently, until people have began calling them clear faced... Bit like the changes in describing a horse's height. 14 hands is 14 X 4 inches. 14.2 hh is 14x 4 inches and 2 inches above that high. Now we see idiots putting 14.5 hh. Hands is not a metric measurement. how on earth can you metric 14.2 1/2 hands high??? It's 2 1/2 inches higher than 14 hands. My stallion Nea was measured at Sydney Royal 14.3 3/4 hands high. iE one quarter of an inch under 15 hands high... Query the advertiser who put metric after . They have a hissy fit. Say Merle today and the clear faced brigade argue that gene isn't in the breed. It isn't.. the word for over a hundred years meant no patches not even a small black dot. Perhaps the question is, tradition or rewriting the past for new political correctness? .

Hilton Sinclair of Berrilyn kennels told me nearly 50 years ago, at the time he was one of the oldest ACD prefixes . he said the spot had been passed down by a very popular dog named Bentley, pretty remarkable really. But some genes can pass like that if only one copy is needed to express it.

A statistical look at wide ranging health problems in German French Bulldogs based on survey of 574 owners. I found it shocking. Not just BOAS. https://cgejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40575-025-00149-8?utm_source=bmc_etoc&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CONR_40575_AWA1_GL_DTEC_054CI_TOC-251101

It seems to be not showing on this specimen, this is just an example. A lot of them have that white marking on the top of the head indeed, I would say a majority from my observations. However, would please be able to give us more instructions about what you know about the Bentley's mark? I'm just a tradesman and not a dog specialist, just got a bluey with me, that's all, I'm basically nobody against the dog society. That said I don't even socialise with dog owners when we got to the park as usually I get depressed if I extend our visit that way... so I just keep walking around like it says clearly on the park rules (to avoid the dogs to get territorial with one area of the park) I know that Bentley didn't actually draw a mark on his dogs, but here again, you can't pretend to be putting together an ACD breed chart without mentioning the Bentley's mark or can ye I believe It’s part of the story whether it’s genetics or just legend.

If this is your view I can only respect it. And listen, have a wonderful day.

Bentley mark is on the forehead of all cattledog's It's neither a type or breed

Re experience, I once read "Do they have twenty years' experience or one years' experience repeated twenty times?".