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You could try Blackdog Wear....I believe that they will make up collars to order if you need special sizes. Link

GayleK, when I was first investigating prong collars I put one on a cushion....a round calico covered bolster cushion. I attached my best lead, stood on the cushion a foot either side of the prong and gave it all I had. I could not make the prongs pierce the calico. If I maintained a constant (and I only did this so that I could observe the effect in slow motion) pressure on the lead the 'pressure footprint' for want of a better phrase is similar to that which you would get from an ordinary martingale or limited slip collar. With the above in mind, my experience is that if too strong a correction is given with a dog on the prong, then the effect would be similar if too strong a correction is given if a dog is wearing an ordinary martingale or limited slip collar so far as risk of injury may be concerned. My dog used to be quite happy to give her self a level of correction (by lunging on lead) that I wouldn't have been happy to use on her because of the risk of injury at that level.....in fact she on occasion flipped herself off her feet and landed on her back or rump wearing an ordinary martingale, and once on a show check chain. Delivering herself that level of correction was not severe enough to her to change the behaviour.....she'd just get up and have another go. With the prong, we could use a lower level of correction to get a behavioural change and all we risked was a pinch on the skin. My dog still sometimes gets aroused enough by something to want to try and influence the direction that we travel in, but these days, she doesn't show that arousal by leash tension....she just stands on her back legs looking at that which has caught her attention but doesn't put tension on the lead....the other day we flushed a hare while we were out on a walk and she did just this......but now she breaks off at a command and gets rewarded for that rather than either flipping herself off her feet or pulling me off mine. Overall much better for both our health LOL! The other thing is I haven't yet been able to deliver myself a pinch from the PPC prongs themselves that equated to the level or intensity of pain of the pinch that I get from the chain portion of either the PPC or an ordinary martingale collar where the chain runs through the rings and I've tried it on both my neck and my thigh.

I'm not sure if there is one at Cooroy either.....I know some Pomona people who attend the Gympie club, they've never mentioned there being a club at Cooroy.

Unless its a private club I don't think there is one in Noosa now.....none listed in Dogworld.

Yup Thats it.

Hi Happie The reason why just standing still won't work for some dogs is that they can still be oriented towards/focussing on whatever it is they hope to achieve by pulling on lead....they have perhaps learned in the past that they can influence the direction that you will let them go in by pulling on the lead (eg your dog pulls towards a tree, you think 'maybe he wants to pee' so you go with him or you dog sees a friend that he is eager to get to and he is pulling on the lead to reach them, even if you intended to go up to that friend anyway, the dog believes that he influenced the approach by pulling on the lead). So the dog is indicating that he wants to reach something by pulling on the lead now and you are just preventing him. This increases his frustration and so he tries harder....he doesn't understand why pulling on the lead sometimes gets him what he wants and other times it doesn't. For these dogs, you actually have to turn around and walk in the other direction so that you can break that orientation/focus. In many cases an appropriately timed correction will help to speed up the learning process coupled with reinforcement when there is no tension on the lead. But the bottom line is, the dog has to come to understand that he never ever gets anything he wants when there is tension on the lead, and he never influences either the direction or rate of travel with leash tension. I also feel that its important that when you are training for loose lead that you never walk your dog with a set destination or distance to be covered in mind because if you do sooner or later you might give in to the dogs tension on lead out of impatience/running out of time and his previous learning about leash tension will be reinforced again.

Thank you very much for your thoughts and comments to those who have made them... Please keep em coming

Not entirely sure yet LL, just wondering if there is a correlation and if so how and why.

Thanks for pointing that out Leema....I figured there might have been a flaw there but wasn't sure about how to fix it..... ETA: hoping that the third option in the second area helps out

I haven't done a poll before so I hope this all works out Gratitude to all replies and thoughts

Thanks for the replies I'm not personally facing this problem with my dog, but just wanted to know more about the condition. My best wishes to those who are dealing with the condition in their dogs and to the continued well being of all

Just wanting to know more ;) If you've had a dog with it, what treatment options were given to you? One that I've read of involves removing either the hip socket or the head of the femur...how would a dog adapt/cope with this? Do you know of any dogs with this condition and what was their quality of life like after the op? Were there any special considerations that you had to give to the dog? How would a dog cope if the surgical option wasn't taken? Any shared experiences will be gratefully recieved ;)

Ooooh I hear you there TSD and it makes successes just that little bit sweeter dontcha think?

Yay KR!!! As well as being cute, he's a smart, nicely focussed boy. He'll do you proud

Steve, you won't believe how close I was to actually getting on a plane and being there I've got a 3 week commitment beginning on the 30th of April that I can't get out of if I'm to move ahead in some areas where I seriously need to. Might just have to settle for you coming back up here and some possibilities have come up for that thanks to Sieta

I thought it was illegal to lead your dog off a bike!?! Am I wrong? In some places I think its illegal to lead your dog off a bike on public roads, paths or walk ways. I usually go to vacant parks, the showgrounds or sporting fields and I've got a mountain bike that does well on grass and a walky dog bike attachment.

Look at that Steve, 3 (out of what 10?) attendees all doing well in obedience after that one workshop!!! Absolutely, and on the second day there were obedience people there who walked away shaking their heads muttering "I can't see how that would work" LOL!

Not quite as good as yours Sieta, (congratulations :laugh:) our best was 190 and our heeling went a little downhill from there LOL! Ugh....computers...every second time I try to boot up I get a message telling me to remove drive C and I lose more files....its dying a slow painful death LOL! I thought it had gone completely at one stage, but think its only running on faith at the moment cuz I need it. Thanks for the congrats everyone

Ooooh, Shamus would be the one who has stolen my heart with his gorgeous little face! It was nice to see you again KR!

At a double header trial on Saturday night, my girl got the first two legs for her CD title. A 1st and a 2nd place. At the trial they awarded the Rose Richards Memorial Trophy for Excellence for the dog with the highest combined score at the trial.....my girl come a close 2nd to a UD Lab for the trophy. Go the Ridgies! I'm still getting goosebumps and tearing up a little when I think about how well we went People gifted me with some beautiful comments that I'm really grateful for like 'She's such a stylish worker' and 'You and your dog look so good together out there'. We still need to do some work on our off lead heel and I figure that I've taken her too far too fast with that and so I'm going to take her right back to the beginning and train her with that more carefully. The Ridgies can do it and they rock! And.....I love my dog

Is this the same guy that has the place called Cherokee near Wacol?

I believe that NDTF are now also set up to provide the 'attendance' portion of their distance learning packages in Sydney?

Meeting an Angel I had the freedom of the Universe Oh how I could soar and glide But twinkling in the distance Was a light that caught my eye I came upon you gently And felt the love in your heart I knew in that moment From you I'd never part So I traded my wings to be with you Knowing I couldn't stay long We had things to share you and I And our bond would be ever strong So when you grant me leave to go Or if I'm taken before you can prepare Know that my wings are waiting for me Somewhere out there My wings will give me freedom And lift me from the pain Age will melt away from me And I'll be strong again I'll soar when you are joyful And I'll hover when you're blue But I'll patiently wait the moment when You get your wings back too By Rom for all the Angels who grieve at being parted from each other

Hi M-J, When I was talking this over with a friend she gave me an example in regards to the wallet on the dash of the car that I'll admit gave me pause for thought....Her example was what if instead of a wallet, it was a piece of paper....many would react the same way in order to try and prevent the piece of paper from going out the window...... I pondered on this for a bit and then thought 'Why would we be less likely to react in that manner to a random piece of paper blowing past us down the street?' I'm still digesting that one...... In any case, a member of a UK forum requested that I post this topic over there....its taken some interesting twists and turns.....I'm not sure that I can post a link to it here given the forum rules, but will be happy to PM a link if anyone is interested.

That's true but my motivator wasn't instinctive, the action was, may even be a reflex ie messages get short circuited, my motivator was the possibility of loosing my money, lots of repercussions there, none for the greys if they didn't chase as they know they don't chase for their food. cheers M-J This statement took me on an interesting line of research..... Simple reflex is basically automatic responses to protect the body from direct harm....eye blinking, yawning, knee jerk reactions, withdrawing from something hot etc. There are more complex reflexes, but they are conditioned....kind of along the lines of Pavlov's work with the salivating dogs. I can't remember the exact path I took to get from there to the next point (although some of it was prompted by conversations with Erny), but I ended at the endocrine system and homeostasis. The root of the word homeostasis means resistance to change and the function of homeostasis is to maintain the internal environment at optimum balances for survival. If there are imbalances diseases develop or death can be caused depending on the imbalance. And imbalances of some hormones can affect/effect behaviour. While the production of hormones is necessary for some internal functions, the body also acts to destroy those hormomes once they have acted on the target organ or receptor.....generally they are destroyed by the target organ/receptor itself so that a state of homeostasis can be returned to. There are two ways that the internal system recieves feed back that it must act to return the body to a state of homeostasis in order to maintain a healthy internal environment.....they are negative feedback loops and positive feedback loops. The majority of feedback loops in animals are negative and there is only one positive feedback loop identified and that is the effect that a suckling whelp has on the production of the hormone that triggers milk let down.....if this was a negative feedback loop then the suckling action would cease or reduce milk let down rather than increase it. Returning to topic, the interesting thing about stress hormones and adrenalin...the production of which are triggered before fight, flight or persuit behaviours is that the only efficient way for the body to destroy/metabolise these hormones so that it can return to a state of homeostasis is through physical activity. These hormones also have an effect on emotions. So...in the case of instinctive behaviours, not only does the animal act in order to gain a percieved reinforcer/reward, but it also acts to relieve an uncomfortable internal state which occurs before the expression of the behaviour. LL: Touche! Under different circumstances I probably would have been one of those annoying little kids that kept asking "But why?" BTW curious that you mention Ivan Balabanov....does his work cover some of this stuff?