Akayla

That sounds like the park in Page? If not, it happened there too. Used to get a huge group there until the cricketers objected, and yep, deckchairs ;) Thats the one! :D Mum used to go with her little Jap Chin X and my big Czech Shepherd. I went a couple of times with my two GSD bitches. Was such a shame to see that go. Unlike other offlead areas there seemed to be some really nice people with well behaved dogs.

First off I think its wonderful that everyone is discussing this is an adult manner :D Second I just had to add Poodlefan that my bitch like most German Shepherds like to take the stance of head between my legs - I think its just a GSD thing , no matter how big they are they want to be as close as possible. It hasnt stopped her stepping out and getting inbetween me and a threat yet PS - Incase you cant tell from the screen that was my attempt at a joke ;) I would personally love to see more available to "test" or working breeds :D

Vehs you can come meet an Armahani baby any day! I have one from her last litter right here.

My mum used to have a local oval like this too. They all used to take their deck chairs Unfortunetly the sports people couldnt stick to their times or share so they had it changed from a offlead to an onlead area and the people that used to have lights on at night for them refused to do it anymore! Oh well wishing you better luck with your group!

But most on those things Sam would be fairly obvious that its not appropriate - but what about every day? Its ok to not want kids around but you need to say so. Like I said Id have to arrange a babysitter or not go so I need to be told if for some reason kids arent welcome. Not that I often can go I guess Im lucky that the small amount of friends I do have are happy to make allowances even though I know it makes it hard for them sometimes. A good example of this was when I went with a good friend to look at wedding dresses for her. I arranged a babysitter for an hour and a half and turned up child free. She was suprised and said she wouldnt have minded and that if I needed to bring her along not to worry she would tell me if there was a problem. The point, we both showed respect for each other and tried our best to make each other comfortable.

QUESTIONS 1. What is my relationship with the breed? (ie breeder, first time owner etc) I had a family member that was a major part of the GSD world I have always had them in my life and at least had my ear talked off about them before I ever owned one. Soon as I moved out of home the GSD was the first dog I wanted and still today remains my passion. I now have a prefix and breed quality German Shepherds though I am taking a small break at the moment. 2. Where and why was the breed first developed? Germany as an all rounder dog that could perform what ever task the owner needed. That very simplified but since so many others have answered before me Ill just keep these brief. 3. How common is it in Australia? Very. 4. What is the average lifespan? Id say 10 -14 depending on the line. 5. What is the general temperament/personality? Well I think this is a difficult question to answer. They are very smart, loyal, loving, steady and strong. 6. How much daily exercise is needed for the average adult? I think a long walk and a offlead type exercise with as much mental stimulation during the day. Not the kind of dog you can take for a couple of bug runs and leave at home they need stimulation aswell. 7. Is it a breed that a first time dog owner could easily cope with? It would depend on the first timer and how much they loved the breed and wanted to work with the dog. 8. Can solo dogs of this breed easily occupy themselves for long periods? They would need stimulation when alone and they really are in love with their owner and need to spend time with them eack day. However they can survive while you are at work if they must so long as you give them something to do! 9. How much grooming is required? It would depend on the coat. There is a wide variety of coat and this alters the amount of grooming. But generally they drop coat about twice a year and unless you want fur tundras every where you would want to remove it 10. Is it too boisterous for very small children or for infirm people (unless the dog is well trained)? As an adult they shouldnt be but I imagine with no work at all they would be possibly to dnagerous to have around. Puppies always get carried away a little just like little kids. I have a toddler and have never had problems with her or any of my 10 nieces and nephews or friends that visit. 11. Are there any common hereditary problems a puppy buyer should be aware of? Yes there is and potential owners should make sure that all of the necissary tests have been done (as listed already) and actually look to see that the breeder possess the required certificates. 12. When buying a puppy, what are the things you should ask of the breeder? (eg what health tests have been done (if applicable) and what is an acceptable result to those tests so the buyer has an idea of what the result should be) Health tests, if their dogs have been breed surveyed and if not why, why they breed, view at least the mother, view any certificates claimed, what they do with their dogs work wise, what is the line like in temperament and health, what age ect I think they get the idea. Ask lots of questions. If you want the pup for a particular purpose ask if this line suits that need. Ask around other people as well dont stop at the first breeder. Good luck

Armahani - must be something wrong with me cause you know I like the others too! I just think she has the sweetest little boofa head Now I cant wait to see some sables born

Snowflake is just adorable! But then when are any of your pups not gorgeous!

So I assume then this goes for husbands and boyfriends too? Not welcome unless specified? My friends wouldnt be so rude as to assume I had to ask permission to take my family out every time I had a social life! But then I guess they also know I get to go out by myself maybe once in six months. My daughter is young but Im on top of her every minute and its MY decision as her mother to judge dangerous situations like going to a home where there are so many dogs or was some how unsafe. I dont let my daughter run around and touch stuff so I dont see the problem with the gneral house hold. If my friends want to do something special they know I need alot of notice just to find a babysitter and would ask me ein advance if I minded. With dogs its different they can stay at home safely with no worries. When I need to or want to I ask the host, but children are apart of your life 24/7 till they are old enough. If they dont want kids coming at all then they dont get me coming at all - its not even a choice but if it was I still wouldnt go because they cant expect me to be a mind reader or dump my kids all alone.

Im a bit shocked that kids arent welcome without an invite! Its a bit different to a dog that CAN handle being on it own no matter what age. A 2 yr old cant be left in their room alone and I dont think (even though some of us love our dogs like children) that it can be compared. No way would I take my daughter say to a house where there will be lots of unknown dogs walking around but then as a single mum I just wouldnt go at all. I have a few friends that we take the dogs to - but thats usually the reason we visit for play dates but with family since many dont own dogs I would ask. My mum of course being exempt because I know the dogs there are ok with it and so is mum. But again I think it comes down to bad manners - if your dog is uncontrollable and a nuisance why bring it? Only stressful for everyone involved.

I think in some cases it can be ok - if its a common thing and you are confident the people dont mind ect. But with a situation where they dont expect the dogs that different and personally Id never take my dogs at ALL if they had such bad manners! If one of y bug dogs jumped up it could cause injury so no Id never risk the dog or the child. On peoples furniture is just plain rude if you ask me.

I also just wanted to add that the breed has always been described to me as the "great all rounder" not a this or that. GSDs are often out done by breeds that are specifically breed for just one particular job. But can that dog that excells at x also compete to a high level of y and z? My understanding is that the GSDs biggest assett is that it wants to work with and please it owner and has little fear to try these new things and can do just about anything! Not many breeds can boast that. I would recommend the breed to lots of people but people looking for a versatile dog that can sit and be climbed all over by two year olds, defend it master, excel in obedience, Sch and tracking as well as stop by the old folks home on the way back - not to mention their ability as actors . ETA: So long as they are willing to put in the work of course Some training is always required but the more you want to do - the more they can do.

Ok so there were some stairs but what prevented the dog exactly from interacting with the public and what kept the public from playing with the dog?

Its true that at that age a dog can go through a number of changes. He is getting close to adulthood and will want to make "his place" in the pack and start to become more protective aswell. For the most part puppies are all licks and cuddles - he is just coming from that to become the dog he will be. In no way would I go by his temperament in the past. Ive made that mistake myself - assuming because they love everyone when young that you have done a bang up job socialising. Its when they become adults that you can really tell.

I don't think what happened to your child in the coffee shop Slk, is what happened in the hair salon where the dog approached the child to bite her???. A dog biting an innocent child doesn't automatically deem the dog's at fault. It's up to the parents to teach a child how to behave around other peoples dogs like I was taught to leave them alone. The dog did not approach the child. Three witnesses claims that the dog was in its' same poition when they saw the child crying - minding its own business. Also how did they "see" the dog if it was in a totally different area from salon? Especially three people.

loveseverydog - look people are going by what has been said by two people. Yourself the friend of the owner and another person on here who is friends with the parents. Neither of you were witnesses as ar as I can tell. You both have very different accounts. No one here is saying the dog should be destroyed so no one is going on about it like a total mauling. BUT it has been reported as biting this child and unless you have some kind of degree and have inspected the child youself then I dont where you can say nothing happened. I dont want to get in an arguement with you but statements like this : "Agree! Just because a business is "Public Access" doesn't mean that it's open to be a playground. And the dog in this matter (salon) was away from the salon minding his own business. Provoked? No sign of actual bite. Fell? Most likely!!!!!!". Im finding it a bit insensitive. You might be right and it was just a fall but you dont know that for sure and making out that it was nothing to the child is just offensive. I know you are sticking up for your friend but if you were my friend Id ask you to stop in respect for the other party especially since this might go through court. Id be truelly saddened if the owner took the same approach as you as to just instantly dismissed this. What if the dog did bite, what if there is a good reason and what if he is inclined to do it again but harder next time? If you dont even look into it you are in my opinion not a responsible dog owner.

Diablo it used to be that the owner also had to prove that the dog wasnt just aggressive and a threat to people - ie that it was provoked enough to bite said person or child. Different state and a while ago now. Better yet if it was actually under control like locked away in a different area not accessible for the public.

Nicely put Greymate.

No Diablo but if you trip and fall onto someones property and it injures you they may be liable. Dogs having their own space fine, dog approaching someone not fine. Lets not forget that the dog was just walking around not restrained in anyway. If the kid went and opened a door or anything like that ok sure we could argue that the owner had taken reasonable steps but that doesnt seem to be the case.

In regards to training I agree with Huski.

After some thought Im going to step out of the conversation for a while. I just feel Im going to upset you too much and believe it or not that is not my intention. Anyway I hope the issue with the dog is resolved as quickly as possible.

The last paragraph is what I'm talking about. Kids are innocent and education about being around animals is very imoirtant. On the other hand, I don't support muzzling as this is cruel for dogs that are not clearly vicious or dangerous. In this matter: Husky v Toddler- I don't think the child is at fault. From the source I got was the father and two staff that were there that day, after they heard the child start crying) they all turned to look and saw the child on the floor, all fours facing away from the husky, while the husky while lying down behind her chewing on a treat with his down. Apparently, the mother wa NOT next to the child at the time. Muzzling is far far from cruel. I have chosen to do it from time to time and as long as the dog is trained to except it there is no distress. (a good muzzle though not those cheap fabric things!). Have you stopped to think about the fact that children do fall do get rough as you say and what happens next time? If the dog isnt muzzled kept seperate or anything like that what is to provent this happening again? Its not just at their home its in a public place. Of course they are distressed! Its a terrible thing to go through! I really do feel for them. BUT what are they going to do if they get the dog back? So who are we supposed to believe the friends of the family of the child or the friends of the salon owner? You are probably a great person but you are just text on here.

That isnt unfortunately that rare Im afraid. Evidence of the bit like photos ect would most likely been collected already its going through all the witnesses ect and then going into a meeting to decide type thing. It can also help protect the dogs from people that want to bait them ect. The child was in a public place if there was a bcak section it should have been sealed off to keep the customers safe. They are probably lovely people but that was a bad decision on their part and the fact they had dogs that were around their bussiness means they take on some responisbility for the care of the dogs and the public who enter their business. Do they have signs warning people not to go into that area because of the dogs? Also have you read that friends of the child family have been in and contradict your account? I also think the attitude of blaming the child and declaring her injuries not that serious is not good enough in my books. I think I can stand up and say this as I have had a dog in a simillar situation - there was no injury to the child but my dog did scare her. I paid the fine accepted some conditions because I think that is only fair as a responsible owner. By the way my do was in the pound for two weeks and recieved injuries while there and that while having no injuries at all! It may seem unfair but 4 weeks sounds about right. They need to find a solution thats fair to everyone. I dont want to upset you further because Im sure as their friend you only want to defend the good people you know. But as heartless as it seems the dog should not have been where people had access unless under effective control. We can only go by the general information supplied and I am inclined to think the truth is some where inbetween.

First off I know how this discussion would make you feel but you have to keep in mind it is just that a discussion. Have you never discussed anything before with friends or family? Just because you werent there or dont have the whole story doesnt mean you dont speak of it. Second as others have said the fact that he is fine in some situations is not evidence he didnt do it. I also see why you would be so upset with his treatment, there is much to be desired about the treatment of dogs like this. Hopefully it will be resolved quickly.

I dont think any one is saying they would have a dog PTSd cause it reacted as a one off. The point is if this dog IS allowed to go home I would think they would want to be proactive regardless of what restrictions are placed on it. Example - dont allow the dog run of the shop - restrain it when unsupervised, muzzle the dog when you are in a situation where something unpredictable might happen. Now after a conversation on the weekend I have thought a bit more about some issues. See in Canberra we are only just getting enclosed public dog parks so before then (given the size and population of Canberra) it was very difficult say to walk a dog without having children, dogs ect present. Its something I guess you learn to live with. However after visiting Melbourne talking to people there I realise not all places are like this and some have the luxury of being able to avoid people. So I think a muzzle would depend on where you lived and if you had access to an area like this where you could really be sure not to say have school kids run past ect. But if they lived and walked their dog in an area where an incodence like this COULD happen again I would muzzle. Im not being nasty to the dog but concerned they WILL be PTSd if the owners do nothing. To society a dog that does bite twice is a accident waiting to happen and really as responsible dog owners now that they know there dog can/will react to discomfort or shock by biting they need to take steps to protect the public the same way as we call for the public to provide some protection for our dogs. Its gotta be a compramise. I would also like to say Id never allow my daughter to approach a strange dog (especially one thats unrestrained) and teach her that there are ways to handle any type of animal. But if she just fell and bumped a dog and it reacted badly enough to cause that kind of damage be sure Id be VERY angry with the owners. I wouldnt ask for them to destroy the dog but I would ask for it to be muzzled in public. I think thats fair. There has to be some give on both sides.