BJean

If you're not already, loop some baling twine to your tie-up area and attach the lead rope to it with a quick-release knot, hopefully will reduce the destruction by breaking easily if he pulls back or whatever.

Thanks BM -

when he first arrived he was breaking the twine, and then using his chest to barge out. he would go fwd, meet the gate or barrier, pause at the sound and then just keep going (such a doofus :rolleyes: ).

He is not allowed to be 'locked' in anywhere now - we've decided if he really wants to exit the bulding, it is best to just let him go.

But this has improved heaps and there hasnt been any damage for a while.

If there's food about, he'll stay put

It can be uncomfortable for a horse to stand for a farrier. Holding up a leg can be tiring and strain the muscles. This may be happening to your boy. How long do you hold his legs up for, in training?

(You may also want to get him physically checked, in case he's having some pain.)

If he mucks up, it's usually either stroppy mucking up (don't want to do this, it's hard work) or nervous mucking up (this is hurting, I'm worried I'm going to fall over or get whacked or that something bad will happen). Not always easy to tell which.

I'm giving you a link here to the first page in a sequence of pages that give you some tools to help train calm behaviour with the farrier. The first one is circling to get calm behaviour with the farrier and the second one is clicker training for calm behavior with the farrier. Particularly if the horse is nervous, emphasis needs to be on rewards.

If you can, get a training partner to be the "farrier" so you can work with the exercises regularly. Remember to work on duration of holding the leg up.

Thanks for the link sidoney - if I make a consistent effort I think we can get there

I think him muckingup is nerves and not knowing what is going to happen or expected of him. But maybe also a bit stroppy when he has had enough? The trainer said he is used to throwing his weight around and obstacles giving way to him, so maybe this is part of that? Hmm don't know - will just try a few things and see how we go

You can try a twitch on his top lip, or pinch a fold of skin on his neck or hold one ear.

After watching the vet try for half an hour to get hold of his nose to apply a twitch last year, I think I will give it a miss. (I shouldn't laugh but I'm sure he did it on purpose - let the vet get hold of his nose, and then throw his head up 'throwing' the vet away ) Also if he puts his head up I can't reach his nose or his ears . I don't want to encourage him to do this - not when he lowers his head to be tacked up, groomed, washed etc

When I first got him it took me a few months for him to lower his head and allow me to brush between his ears etc - even when we had 'issues' over the weekend ;) he still lowered his head for me, so I don't want him to start having to worry about his head being in 'danger'.

:p

hairy winter pics of the subject taken this morning:

IMO a horse needs to be controllable no matter how fit and/or full of rich feed it is. (Or how scary things nearby are - this could save a life one day.)

This is where a good structured foundation groundwork training programme is invaluable. The horse learns self control and trust and respect for the handler. This relationship extends to work under the saddle.

Thanks Sidoney

I think perhaps I had become lazy over winter with him and probably let him get away with things that months ago I would not have.

So its back to the start - my trainer returns on thursday so hopefully over time the thorse and I will get succeed at establishing self control, trust and respect - in any circumstance.

Lunged him before taking him out the paddock this morning and then led him out on a bridle - no rearing or striking out with his near foreleg - I was very relieved. I am now very cautious of leading him now - I think we both have to build up trust again ;) .

Regarding his feet

You still need to do some work with him on his front legs - he should accept having his legs worked on. Don't accept the stamping and pulling away. Reward him for standing nicely, make him work if he plays up. He needs to understand control and respect in all areas, not just some. It's across the board.

I can pick up his front legs - he lifts his front legs up on command - but back legs, not so good. I can pick them up but for only a minute or so -

I will try making him work when he wont lift his back legs...

Any suggestions to stop him striking out at the farrier?

I can lift his front leg, move it forward and back, tap the hoof with a hammer etc, hold it up for 5, 10 mins etc - but after about two minutes with the farrier he won't lift his front legs any more and strikes out instead. He only has to get his front feet trimmed - anything I can do to stop him carrying on like a pork chop with the farrier?

Thankyou all for your helpful advice

Only had time for a quick lead about today -

Trifecta, I led him on the bridle with a tad more success

I always keep real close to his shoulder so when he rears up I am out of the way of his forelegs.

Ultimately we make our way slowly with me moving him laterally - applying pressure to his shoulder and keeping his front and hindquarters away from me.

I'm going to go back to basics - before work tomorrow we are going to do some round yard work.

I would like to work on our relationship - get it back to 50/50 - before I have to resort to a nose chain -

I don't really want to use a more severe method of leading if I haven't needed to in the past.

Choppa Chop - I am in Lysterfield, VIC.

Tonymc - I will also follow up with the Join Up Process that you recommended - will wait for the trainer to return on thursday to oversee that. As of 6am tomorrow we are back in work!

greychicken - if I'm not in hospital tomorrow morning I will take some pics. he is very hairy and shedding his winter coat, so looks like a mammoth.

Benji'sMum my OH has been giving him lucern for the past week

I usually keep him on rye/clover or grass hay, so yes i think he also has had some extra beans

RealityBites it may sound silly :cool: but I am concerned about rapping his forlegs with a whip (while leading him out the paddock) when he rears, as we only have a four metre wide path to walk along, wooden fences along one side with horses, and the property boundary with barbed wire on the other. When I lead him there is only about half a metre either side of us, and when he throws himself around he is not afraid to crash into things. He is also not that fearful of a whip and if I smacked him with the whip while somehow still hanging on to him, he could strike out at me, and there is not much room for me to go. Also his wither is just above my head, so there is a big leg to avoid if it strikes out. He is kind of like an elephant - they're much better when they are not angry or afraid, else they will take down everything in their path.

Lilli,I take it from your post that this is the first time you have encountered Rearing with this Horse?

Lilli,as you know the factors that need to be taken into account are your state at the time,the onsett of Spring,the behavior of nearby Horses,the late Gelding of this Horse and the way he see's you.

Before I go any further Lilli,as this was a first it is not entrenched behaviour.I would if you feel a little wary, get somebody else to take this Horse and recreate the situation that you had and see if he repeats the behaviour.

Lilli as you know Horses are like Dogs in one respect and will repeat a behaviour if there is a payoff in it for them.alot of Horse Training is making it easy for the Horse to do what we require and hard for him to do what we do not want!!!We show them a Path of least resistance.

lilli,it is not helpful to chastise yourself about how you may have contributed to this matter.Awareness that there may be a problem is the first step in seeking a solution.This first step you have taken, so do not beat yourself up over it.No matter what we are doing life is learning.

lilli,there are a few options here.Firstly as you already know many issues with Dogs go back to Leadership.Horses also are subject to Leadership issues.Lilli I would check out Monty Roberts and his Join-Up Process as one good starting point.

Lilli, one option which another poster has already touched upon is this.I would equip yourself with a good Halter and a Lead long enough to lunge the Horse with.Recreate the scene you had or enlist the help of other People.Have the other People assemble all leading a Horse each.Get these People to group together.Next lead your Horse up and down past this group of Horses.Take note of your Horse"s body language and behaviour.If he starts to act up,immeditately send him out on the lunge right near the group of Horses.Keep him Lunging then stop and proceed in leading him up and back past the group again.Any unwanted behaviour and straight away lunge again!!!!You must initiate the Lunging immeditately so he connects it with his behaviour.When he will walk past calmly let him stand as a reward.We are showing him that his behaviour of acting up makes life hard for him and his behaviour of being calm makes life easy for him.

Initially in the early stages have the group of Horses being held all pretty well stationary till he gets the idea.As he gets the idea you can then have the Group move around a bit,whilst still repeating the Lesson.The same way one would introduce a distraction into a Dogs training to strengthen behaviour we want.

Lilli, is it helps PM me a postal addy and I will send you one of those Halters mentioned in this Thread, as they are one of many items I make.The Halter will be on the House as I will be glad to help see the situation rectified. Tony

Thankyou Tony for your considerate reply

He is rearing and carrying on when we go past the left corner where there is one filly and a mare -

I don't lead him past the right corner (the only other pathway) as that corner has one stallion and a very vocal colt.

Last year at Spring the extent of his Spring jollies was to prance about when approaching this corner, but this year he has added rearing.

Once in the yard or arena he does not act up when being lead past other horses.

He is a difficult horse to get help with as his upbringing was unusual - not many trainers would help me with him (many refused based on his size and age)- I found one eventually though

I am the only handler he has known, and compared to other horses I've owned and my snobby mare - he seems very bonded(?)

When he hears my car approach he calls out; if I call out and he hears he will respond and run to the gate waiting for me. If I get distracted and take my time getting to him, he will walk through the fence and meet me at the hayshed. If he gets himself into trouble he will wait for me to fix it.

Until I got him he just lived in the herd of horses he was born with at the CSL.

I'm not sure if there is anyone around (until Thursday) who will be able to recreate (and possibly contend with) the situation for me.

I will lunge him before I take him out the paddock today, and will lead him using the bridle.

Hopefully it will abate soon.

(I thought the 'damage' phase was over with last year. We took down a stable, nearly pulled down the wash bay and broke the barriers in the tie up area )

I will also measure his head and send you his sizing THANKYOU

I remember that his browband measurement from when I had a bridle made for him was 49cm - will send you PM

THANKYOU

L:-)

I had a striker and was advised to carry a crop and smack him across the front legs when he did it. He was an ex-racehorse.

Thanks Benji's Mum - I don't really want to get into a physical confrontation with this horse, what starts off as disrespectful play could turn very nasty if he moved to anger or fear. He is the type of horse that will do things for you if he trusts you and you ask firmly but nicely. I use a crop as an aid when riding, but would be reluctant to use it when he rears, as when he throws himself up or to the side, he is too strong for me to counter and correct by swinging him around or pulling the lead. If I was to smack his front legs he would just pull away. And if 1 tonne pulls away, you go with it or you let go.

One farrier that saw him (sadly we have gone through a few ) wacked him under the belly when he moved, and the horse just got angrier and more afraid - and tossed the farrier through the air like a peanut.

It sounds to me as if your pony has an advanced case of the Spring stupids. Lots of protein in the grass, nice sunshine, too much energy and his brain has gone phhhwwt. You'll probably find that when the Spring grass is over he'll get sensible again.

My suggestion, for what it's worth, is pretend he's a young horse all over again and teach him to lead as if he was a young 'un. Get his attention back on you, maybe start with lunging him in the paddock a bit so that he can get some ya yas out, and then work on his ground manners. Even the nicest horses can do with a refresher course every so often.

Thanks Aphra

yes i think it is a severe case of the Spring stupids

last year he just pranced about, but this year has got even silllier.

Will try lunging him before I take him out the paddock, see if that settles him a little

thankyou

L:-)

I have dealt with a rearing horse or two- one was particularly bad after being confined for 3 months after an injury- and he was a silly thoroughbred to start with! Did a couple of things- stallion bit to manage the behaviour short term and 'natural horsemanship'/ negative reinforcement with a knotted professionally made rope halter (not a $15 from horseland) long rope line (not flappy lunge lead) a 'carrot stick' AND professional assistance as it was a very dangerous situation to begin with.

The carrot stick was invaluable- allowed me to keep some distance between me and the horses shoulder and apply relevant pressures easily. Taught the horse how to give to pressure in every respect and with forehand and hindquarter movements, sideways, forwards, backwards- all on the ground to start but then comes in very handy under saddle.

Thanks Cosmolo - I think I will look at getting a different halter made for him -

fortunately all Horseland's stuff is too small

I think the lady who made his bridle and rugs can make halters, will find out...

Well it is spring after all

But you're right , really no excuse for such a display , not when complete with 'shadow boxing' .

Is it only the once now he's done it ?

Do you use a rope halter ? If you dont , invest in one asap . And as Cosmolo says , you dont want a flimsy , flap around lunge rope . You need something 'soft' but still managable .

Is he aware of 'your space' 'his space' . Is it well enforced ?

Do you/have you used any natural methods during his training ?

Sorry for more questions but need to know a bit more

Thanks Choppa Chop,

Well he has done it twice now, (not today as I won't be dealing with stinky until later this afternoon).

Perhaps because I allow prancing while on lead - it escalated to rearing?

A 'friendly bump' from this horse would knock me flying, but despite his size what makes him so easy to handle is his gentle and willing nature.

He never barges past, even to get into his stall when I have placed his food down - when i am filling up his water he peers from behind my shoulder, if I say back be backs up, and in an enclosed space he will walk backwards rather than have his rear face me. He lowers his head so I can put on his halter, and when I dismount he follows me around.

During his training the only amount of force that was used was to tie up his front foreleg to teach him he couldn't stamp it down when he wanted to.

I have a leather halter that was made to fit him, the lunge rope is a strong nylone one - but perhaps it should be longer?

Perhaps today I will lead him out with his bridle on, and maybe with the lunge rope to give me space if I need it. Or would that be a disaster?

When working in lunge and when started in round yard, at the end of the lesson the horse would walk into the cirlce and come toward me. If he is not tied up in a stall he will walk and break through the barrier to follow me - even if someone else is riding him in the arena he looks out for my cues - if I call out 'whoa' he stops dead - much to my amusement but not my sisters

I don't know the OP's horse and whether he is rearing AND striking (VERY dangerous) but if the OP would think it safe to do so I'd probably work the horse in a round yard on a lunge-line with a lunge whip. Warm him up on the lunge and at any time he went to rear I'd move him on, encouraging the forward movement with the lunge-whip. But similar as to dogs - very difficult to know what to advise without knowing/seeing the animal. Priority is safety of the human. Perhaps some professional help from a horse-person?

Thanks Erny - he is okay in the arena and didn't rear - the problem is I have to lead him out the paddock to get to the arena.

I think it is a respect issue, and this is best worked on in the arena/round yard

but the problem is I have to lead him from his paddock to get to the yard . . .

Perhaps I should get a stronger halter than the nylon one I have?

Or maybe I will just wait until thursday (but it peeves me that he has got this over me..)

I hope i don't have to get any special lead halter/chain as all his head gear has to be made for him.

What a pest *wonders about all the things I did to contribute to this situation*

oops forgot to add scenario:

On Friday while leading my 8yo Percheron gelding (gelded late at 6) from his paddock, he started to prance about (that's okay its Spring, new grass etc)

but then suddeny it progressed to rearing in front of me, a bit of bucking and another rear with shadow boxing.

Now being a Percheron he is usually a gentle giant (17hh, weighs just over a tonne)

but this rearing and cavorting around while being lead past other horses is not on and because he is so powerful it is very dangerous.

He is doing this in play/excitement, but it is disrespectful for him to be doing this while I lead him. Staring up at my horses feet the size of dinner plates in the air, while he rears in front of me is not something I want to see again, nor do I want to have to drop the lead and run to get out of the way (yesterdays fun).

Once I get him to the yard he is fine and while not on lead he has his usual unflappable and excellent ground manners. (I can put this horse's rugs on him in the middle of his paddock with a gale force wind blowing, or tack him up at night with a torch light no probs.)

When in good spirits he will prance (like when he sees feed arrive in the morning) or if walking past a mare in Spring, but this rearing behaviour has taken me by surprise and I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice to deal with rearing while being led.

I started this horse two years ago (unbroken) and have never been on the end of such behaviour before - even when he was being taught to lift his feet. He would kick out or stamp his foot down but never towards me.

His worst behaviour and only vice, is striking out with his front feet when he has had enough of the farrier picking them up. However this horse never had his feet handled or any farrier exposure until he was 6 years old. He is now okay with his front feet being trimmed, back feet - depends on the day

Any suggestions on what I can do to stop him rearing while being lead past other horses?

NB: should aslo add that this horse has never reared when under saddle - when started his worst would be to shake his head around and do a bunny hop 20cm from the ground in frustration. Until friday, I didn't think this horse could get that hgh off the ground - he can be pig headed, but that is because nothing was ever asked of him unilt he was 6 yo.

The resident horse guru is away (until Thursday)

and I was hoping for some advice in leading a horse that rears.

Anyone about that I could present my scenario to??

thankyou

ETA: scenario:

On Friday while leading my 8yo Percheron gelding (gelded late at 6) from his paddock, he started to prance about (that's okay its Spring, new grass etc)

but then suddeny it progressed to rearing in front of me, a bit of bucking and another rear with shadow boxing.

Now being a Percheron he is usually a gentle giant (17hh, weighs just over a tonne)

but this rearing and cavorting around while being lead past other horses is not on and because he is so powerful it is very dangerous.

He is doing this in play/excitement, but it is disrespectful for him to be doing this while I lead him. Staring up at my horses feet the size of dinner plates in the air, while he rears in front of me is not something I want to see again, nor do I want to have to drop the lead and run to get out of the way (yesterdays fun).

Once I get him to the yard he is fine and while not on lead he has his usual unflappable and excellent ground manners. (I can put this horse's rugs on him in the middle of his paddock with a gale force wind blowing.)

When in good spirits he will prance (like when he sees feed arrive in the morning) or if walking past a mare in Spring, but this rearing behaviour has taken me by surprise and I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice to deal with rearing while being led.

I started this horse two years ago (unbroken) and have never been on the end of such behaviour before - even when he was being taught to lift his feet. He would kick out or stamp his foot down but never towards me.

His worst behaviour and only vice, is striking out with his front feet when he has had enough of the farrier picking them up. However this horse never had his feet handled or any farrier exposure until he was 6 years old. He is now okay with his front feet being trimmed, back feet - depends on the day

Any suggestions on what I can do to stop him rearing while being lead past other horses?

Diesel,I am a fan of Halters but only for Horses.

Does anyone know if two litter mates are rehomed seperately and then re-introduced as adults do they remember each other?

Whether they remember each other or not

litter mates re-introduced as adults will be dogs meeting as adults, not puppies -

with adult ideas about territory, social status and moreover what they have learned about the world from their past/upbringing etc.

Two rescue female CAOs sisters found their way to me at 3yo

I owned their litterbrother.

If there was any memory between them it was not evident.

No happy families here -

ultimately the most submissive female could coexist with the male -

but it was more like a tense cease fire agreement -

the most hostile to her brother's company, but more stable female, was able to be successfully rehomed on her own.

NB: the most hostile female and the male, were close playmates as babies.

Even if dogs do remember their litter mates, I think it is their lives and upbringing that followed a shared puppy hood which influences whether or not they will get along as adults, as opposed to any memory.

Not sure why the many people of 'new-age' advocation so frequently and seemably conveniently omit recognition that many trainer/behaviourists who might well use some element of "force" such as described above, do not use "force" alone nor even agree that "force" is what teaches the dog in problematic situations. Rather, if they read fully they would recognise that it is what other things are done in between the moments that (appropriate) "force" brought about suppression of the undesireable behaviour, that assist in the learning process.

Well, they want to stop people who aren't pro trainers attempting the kinds of things Cesar Milan does without the benefits of his speed, confidence and experience and I can understand that. I do think that physical and verbal correction is rarely correctly applied in the way you describe, and that when it is not correctly applied, the likelihood that learning for dog or handler will happen is pretty minimal.

Plus what people who are clueless do to their dogs can be truly Orwellian, and if the harm can be minimised by suggesting alternative approaches I'm all for it. Unfortunately you're not going to minimise harm by saying to novices "you're unlikely to be competent enough to do correctional training effectively, so do this instead where it will matter less when you inevitably stuff it up".

Yes, it is also true that if someone doles out treats to their dog without any reason and gives a mix of confusing signals, the dog will not learn either. That can be dangerous in some situations, but generally speaking I think there is a higher risk of escalating conflict or damage if you use force incorrectly than if you use rewards and praise incorrectly.

Training theory is that only and aspects from each school of thought shoud be used as tools to rearing / training a dog.

The sole use of rewards and praise will not correct a dog really pushing the boundaries;

in some aspects I regard the 'new age' aversion to correction, as a form of humanising dogs and an incomplete application of the 'benevolent leader' role.

Yes a majority of aplha dogs lead benevolently and "do not need to stoop to physical domination to proove their points"

but if their point is not taken, they will respond with a physical reprimand to ensure that it is.

Maybe dogs are not bothered by 'violence' so much because unlike humans they are not plagued by it.

RE: OP:

How important is pack theory to you? How far do you enforce it? Or is it something that you will only pursue further if the dog starts 'pushing the wrong buttons'....

Do you believe that MOST dogs are happy to be the 'happy mediums' and there are only a small handful that want to be the absolute subordinate and absolute alpha??

ETA: Another big question - do you believe in alpha rolling??? Think it works???

Pack theory is important to me as my dogs are very pack orientated - as breeds they can also be predisposed to being dominant and aggressive.

I don't enforce pack order between the dogs - that's up to them -

a rank orientated dog however I will constantly consider how I interact with.

I think once dogs are happy with their place in the scheme of things then it may not be obvious intially as to any particular order -

I also think that how a dog views hierachy is influenced by its breeding/genetics.

Re Aplha rolling:

New dogs that I am unsure about, particularly a rank driven male, I ask to drop on command (dog rolls over on its own accord). If I have a dog that stares at me head on, dead calm and ignores what I ask - an Alpha roll will not address leadership or discipline issues. This dog is intelligent, self-assured and thinks it outranks me - I am not going to show it is wrong by force - I will lose.

(I'm outweighed and overpowered )

i'd like to ask a theoretical question as i still don't have a puppy (decided to wait till January rolls around) but would like to cover my bases as early as now.

we just moved homes, and now live on acreage. the people who used to live there used to feed the birds everyday, and we continue to do so because they are a joy to watch.

my question is, when my new (boxer) puppy comes along, what is the best way to teach him/her NOT to chase the birds.

Apply flock guardian bird training

When your new pup arrives, take he/she out with you when you feed the birds.

Observe the dogs behaviour.

Calm demeanour and ignoring the birds is praised

('calm' at baby puppy age

also includes behaviour where the pup does not notice the birds because it is playing with a flower etc - the pup is still praised for 'ignoring' the birds, as we want to instill in the pup that the birds are a 'non event'.)

Over excitement barking and running up to the birds is reprimanded with a firm "NO".

Any pause in unwanted behaviour is met with praise.

From Day 1, take the pup with you when you feed the birds.

Keep the pup on a lead while you feed the birds during the learning process,

as this allows you to quickly respond to any unwanted behaviour ie: chasing.

Also you don't want the pup to take off after the birds and then you to take off after the pup,

as this will encourage the pup to keep playing this new fun game

B2 and friends

Great post shmoo

Rescue has so many different facets

some are community based

others operate within a breed or club network -

DOL is just one of many rescue communication hubs and resource sharing platforms.

Ignore the ones who know nothing Choppa Chop

Sometimes carer is a heavy burden, and to do the right thing

you must do what is the hardest and most painful for you, but best for the dog

God bless, and trust that you did the right thing.

I treat mine all the same including Chopper.Chopper is highest amoung my dogs and the girls know that.Between the girls I don't know what the rank is.

That's interesting - I thought if you had boys and a girl, the girl would always wind up as highest ranked.

Is that just another myth?

In general I think it depends on the personality of individual dogs.

Generally - I have found the male to be the ultimate quiet overlord

although for the past year a very alpha female has ruled the roost.

thanx cosmolo..would u encourage it in puppies? This is wat the trainer was referring to? Do u think she is out dated in her training too?? She said not to play it with kids in the vicinity and not to play until puppy is old enough to have learnt to stop nipping etc. what r ur thoughts on that? Im going to bombard her with all ur answers soon lol

L&L I am not a trainer

but I do advise potential homes of my dogs - particularly the Anatolians

NOT to play games of tug of war with them.

This is taking into account temperament lines of the dogs - and some are very dominant - not just unruly adolescents, but individuals with a psychlogical ascendancy that does not need the aid of a game (which they really are not that interested in anyway) of tug of war.

Someone who knows what they are doing - yes fine.

Family with kids - nope.

:rolleyes:

I treat mine all the same

that said, the pack order amongst the dogs is never far from my mind

and is always a consideration.

My actions do not affect the pack order amongst the dogs

Rather my actions - given the order system that has been worked out between the dogs for themselves - can cause altercations if I don't think about what I am doing, and what dogs is where etc.

My dogs are each fed seperately.

[Most things I've read about raising wolves as "pets" suggest that it's very different to raising a dog - e.g most sources suggest that the pup should be taken away from the dam at about 2 to 3 weeks old and allowed very little contact with other canines for several weeks afterwards, that this is necessary for the pup to bond with people. And most also suggest that the wolf is never let anywhere near small children since you're unlikely to be able to train the wolf not to see a small child as a snack. Most also say that wolves and even wolf-dogs are too shy to guard anything from strangers.

I don't know much at all about LGD, so don't really know if these traits and requirements are similar to those of LGD. I have heard that LGD definately unusual and not suited for most homes, as you say. I don't think I could properly handle one (or a wolf either for that matter!)

Yes LGDs must differentiate from the wolf in their defence reaction as they were selected by man over 1000s of years to outthink, overpower - to defend against and succesfully combat with wolves.

So maybe they had to be able to think like their enemy, to overcome them?

Central Asians are referred to as "volkodav" - wolf strangler

I think that's probably true. Although all breeds of dog have been domesticated (gone through the initial selection process from wolf to dog), as soon as we started using them to do different jobs then some have been bred to be more or less aloof to humans, be more or less dominant, more or less predatory, etc. So some dogs and some breeds may have more wolfish characteristics than others, although I doubt you'll find any normal domestic dog breed that is as wary of humans when adult, & as hard to socialise, as a true wolf is.

I don't know how wary of humans when mature or the difficulty of socialising a true wolf is

but the Caucasian is a domestic dog (normal but definitely not the usual ?) that is very dominant, territorial, independent and aloof - and was selected for these traits - definitley a breed that needs very careful, knowledgeable owners who understand exactly what the dog's capabilities are.

Very sharp and dominant, their aggression towards people and other dogs into their territory (or sense of territorial personal space) makes them a difficult dog to socialise and unsuitable for most homes