huski

I do hardly anything compared to some others! Like most others I work in an office and enjoy it but being a crazy dog lady is my passion. - I compete in obedience with my beagle - I also train in agility with the intention to compete hopefully later this year also with aforementioned beagle - I am an obedience instructor - I attend as many dog related workshops and seminars as possible! - I am not-so-patiently waiting to get my next puppy! (probably won't be till early next year)

;) MrsD I'll be there on Monday and will follow up for you.

Sorry Cos I didn't mean to imply that was what you are saying (I think even though we may have different ways of saying it we share similar views on the subject anyway) - I was talking generally

Maybe it stems from having dogs that don't place high values on play but I still don't see why it's considered imperative or necessary that a dog finds play with other dogs as highly valuable and rewarding I am more than happy for my dogs to interact with and even play with others when I deem it appropriate but I don't understand why someone would want a dog that wants that all the time. And re neutralisation - just explaining it the way it has been explained to me :D Thanks for your compliment ;) and I agree, I would hope most beagles would find scenting the most or one of the most rewarding things they can do, that is what they have been bred for and I hate to see a scent hound with a low scent drive. I don't want to sound like my dogs never have down time or are never allowed to "be dogs" because that is very far from the truth, but ultimately I can't see myself owning a puppy and seeking to teach it that play with other dogs is highly rewarding. It makes more work later on when you have to train them to ignore what you have socialised them to see as highly valuable. Just on this Jakemon, I think it's really important to note that neutralisation and socialisation are not mutually exclusive. A dog that you are 'neutralising' is not a dog that is never exposed to things outside of the handler. It's a dog that is taught that valuable things like attention and rewards from other people and other dogs etc is never going to be as satisfying as what the handler can provide. For eg - my next pup will be exposed to LOADS of people but she will be taught that they are pretty boring and never as exciting or rewarding as I am.

Well excluding the fact that dog's aren't children and you really cannot compare them... When the dog's value for other dogs exceeds the value the dog has for the handler, that is when it's too high. When a dog will pull it's owner off their feet to get to another dog, the dog's value for other dogs is too high. When a dog can't focus around other dogs, gets over aroused at the sight of other dogs and ignores the handler completely, that is when the value is too high. Just because someone has multiple dogs does not mean they are run together 24/7. My dogs rarely play together, they get along well in that we don't have any fights or misbehaviour and I don't think they dislike each other by any means but they all enjoy time on their own and would be happy in a single dog household. When I get my new puppy she won't be run with my adult dogs either. I will never understand the "dogs are pack animals" argument for taking your dog to the dog park or having them play with others all the time. The dogs at the dog park, random dogs on the street etc are NOT part of their pack, so why is considered natural that a dog plays with dozens and dozens of dogs outside of their pack? Goodness gracious, have you never seen two dogs having a really good rumble? It is the most blissfully joyful experience, and it puts a smile on my face every time. The creativity my dogs display when they play with each other is not replicated anywhere else in their lives, including when I'm shaping them! They learn all sorts of things in play, and there is nothing on this earth I can do with them that is more fun to them than wrestling with each other. Except maybe playing with the flirt pole for Erik. He's nuts about that thing. I wouldn't have it any other way. Seeing that pure joy, laughing when they do something unexpected or outrageously obnoxious to each other, being incredulous when they use a behaviour they learnt in training to evade a pursuer, and just enjoying watching them in full flight... Why WOULDN'T you want that?? It's my greatest joy in owning two dogs. I don't know what I'd ever do if I had dogs that didn't love to rumble. It would be boring. Well I have a dog who has very little interest in playing with other dogs and I can assure you it is not boring. I find watching a dog working excitedly with their owner far more joyful than watching dogs play with each other. My dog will 99% of the time choose herself to track scents instead of play with other dogs, so yes, I really fail to see what is so important or exciting about dogs playing with each other. This is something a breeder raised with me recently when I went out to meet her dogs, she wanted to make it clear to me that genetically her dogs will have little interest in playing with other dogs because it's simply impractical to have a working dog out in the field that wants to run off and play with other dogs. That's not even something the dogs have to be socialised or taught to do - they just naturally have a low value for other dogs because that is how they were bred. Which is ideal from my perspective.

Neutralising a dog is NOT about putting it in a kennel and never socialising it or exposing it to anything new. It's about socialising the dog extensively like you should but socialising it to things and assigning those things with a neutral or low positive value. Like I said above - IMO neutralising a dog is not about not socialising it. It's all about the value you attach to new experiences when you do. I don't understand the desire to have dogs that find playing with other dogs highly rewarding. Daisy is naturally a dog that has low interest in other dogs, she rarely wants to play with them, and when she does she never sees play with other dogs as more valuable or fun than what I can offer. I don't see how that is sad, she's "allowed" to be a dog, she gets to do far more exciting and fun things than the average dog, she's certainly not unhappy. The average pet owner may want something different from their dog but I don't understand why it's so important that your dog plays with other dogs day in day out. We have far more fun and exciting things to do

If you are using a training collar like a martingale, prong, etc, the proper way to fit the collar is snuggly at the top of the dog's neck.

I agree, because in my mind socialising a dog is just giving it a new experience and assigning that experience a value. However, one of the biggest mistakes I see people make with their dogs is socialising them to have too high a value for other dogs. I see this in the majority of people who bring their dogs to the obedience club I instruct at. My preference is that my dogs have a low positive to neutral value of other dogs because I don't see the point in having a dog that has a high value for other dogs and I socialise them with that as a goal.

I always thought that you could only have a check chain or flat collar in the ring, I had no idea you could have martingales or any other kind of training collar. To me the collar my dog wears is completely irrelevant in the trial ring.

The way neutralisation has been explained to me is that the dog has a neutral to low positive value for things outside the handler and it's immediate family. It doesn't mean the dog is never socialised with other dogs or never sees another dog or is never around other dogs (quite the opposite in fact) but that it's taught other dogs are not high value or highly rewarding. I can't imagine a time where I'll get a puppy and want to teach it that other dogs are super rewarding and super exciting. Daisy wasn't a dog I intentionally tried to neutralise as a puppy but she naturally developed a low value for other dogs, not a negative one but she's just not overly interested in other dogs (she was always more interested in scenting than playing with other dogs). I like it that way.

As an obedience instructor I don't encourage people to let their dogs play with each other at training because like Agility Dogs said earlier one of the biggest problems is that the average dog finds other dogs way too high value and distracting. I do however encourage as much play between the dog and handler as possible and from an obedience perspective getting people comfortable with playing with their dogs and actually teaching them HOW to play with their dogs can be quite a challenge. I spend a fair amount of time in my classes teaching people how to 'have a party' with their dogs and trying to show them the benefit to doing so as frequently and unpredictably as possible (I will randomly throw in a 'have a party!' instruction during exercises). It is definitely a challenge though for the average person!

The fitness stuff really interests me. I always try to keep Daisy as lean as possible and I think she's pretty fit but I definitely think her fitness could be better, when I think about it. When everyone is talking about having dogs that would run around for hours, do you all feel that all fit and healthy dogs should be able to reach the same level of fitness or do you think breed (and therefore structure), drive, natural activity level etc all play a part too? For example I would expect a high drive working line dog to go for longer and harder than a small breed with lower drive even when the smaller dog is at optimum fitness.

Sounds like a done deal :D We're going to the K9 Pro workshop while we're there but that's not the main reason we're going, just an excuse to socialise Thanks Dan, I'll keep that in mind. I thought I'd need to contact DT to hire a crate but hopefully I'll be able to borrow CMs

Oh wouldn't she just LOVE that!! Dawww, thanks lovely. Not sure what my plans are yet or exactly when we'll be coming down. Probably looking at flying down on Thursday the 21st afternoon/early evening and then flying back on the Monday night, but I haven't decided yet.

Wow thanks so much for all your advice guys!! I really appreciate it. I think I'll have a look at flights and compare prices and then give both airlines a call to discuss flying dogs. I might give Dogtainers a call too. Vicki if you could that would be fantastic!!! Thanks SO much!! And re flying them in metal crates, apparently you can but not if they are collapsible and I don't know anyone who has a non-collapsible metal crate. The less Daisy can see out the better she is in her crate, so a plastic one will probably be better for her anyway.

Aussielover, totally agree! Even Daisy was two or three years old when I really started doing a lot of shaping, luckily she has relatively hard temperament so it worked out ok and can withstand quite a bit of stress and pressure (important with such a novice handler like myself who pushes her too much) but I know she could have been an amazing dog had we started early when we got her (she was originally my mum's dog!!) at eight weeks. Micha is quite a smart dog with lots of drive which makes him frustrating to train now because he had LOADS of potential but now with his age and health (he has arthritis) and lack of training (not that he's untrained - but compared to what I know now...) it makes it difficult especially compared to a dog like Daisy. I do really enjoy training him though and despite him being a softer dog than D he does enjoy learning.

I definitely think that shaping can be quite stressful for dogs, and "how good they are" at it really IMHO depends on their temperament, nerves etc. Not all dogs are naturally "good" at shaping. But I definitely believe that ALL dogs need to learn how to learn and it is always easier when you start the right way from puppyhood.

But Aussielover, to play the devils advocate, how much free shaping did you do with your previous dog? I do a lot of shaping with Daisy and she offers behaviours as fast and as frequently as she can but Micha on the other hand at 8 1/2 years old is a lot more reluctant. I never did any shaping with him (I was a young teenager when we bought him as a family) and I truly believe for my dogs it's purely difference between having one that has learnt how to learn and having one who hasn't and is far more reliant on luring etc to learn things and isn't used to offering behaviours.

Having a sweet tooth must be a beagle thing

Only just saw this, AWESOME pic Nik!!! Look at that beag go :p Sadie works for snakes She's so funny! ...like, lolly snakes? Awesome! I should try some with Daisy. ;)

Awww, shucks, KG, that's very nice of you to say, though I can assure you I would barely have more experience than yourself or anyone else in this thread :p I've mostly made lots of mistakes which means I've spent lots of time fixing them ;) If you ever want a trainer to consult with in Brissy who knows their stuff when it comes to drive training, Jane Harper from Dogs on Track is always a great choice

Daisy and I are going to Sydney for a few days in July and it will be the first time I've ever flown a dog so I am feeling quite nervous about it and I have a tonne of questions! If anyone can help me out it would be great. Things Huski is Curious About: - What is the best airline to fly on when traveling with a dog? - How do I go about hiring an airline crate, I don't want to buy one as I won't use it enough - If it's really cold when you are flying them, can you put them in a jumper or that not recommended/allowed? - Assuming they fly without a collar on, do you take their collar and leash with you in your carry on luggage? - When flying with your dog, what doggy things do you pack to take away with you? - If you are flying with your dog, is it correct that they are classed as excess baggage? Does this mean you can still take a suitcase with you? - Can you bring bedding to put in the crate with them? I don't want her sitting in a hard crate with no softness to sit on :p Sorry for all the dumb questions I just want to make sure I have all my bases covered before I book the flights. *already edited to add more questions

Thanks :p I hope KG doesn't think I am picking on her or anything, but I think it's an important distinction to make. Too much drive is never a bad thing but having a dog that doesn't have self control or understands how the game works will not only lead to a frustrated dog but a frustrated handler

Only just saw this, AWESOME pic Nik!!! Look at that beag go

Sorry to crash your thread, guys, but I saw this and had to put my two cents in Having a dog that has a high value for a reward is only one part of doing drive training. You have to train the dog how to think when they are in drive, how the game works etc. If he is always trying to snatch the toy from you, won't listen/hear you because he's too hyped up, then you have drive for the toy but aren't really training in drive properly because you are missing all the other elements (if that makes sense). There's a discussion thread on training in drive here K9 Pro Discussion Threads if you want to ask some questions and Steve is also coming up to Brissy in September for a workshop, which I think would be really worthwhile if you are interested in how to use drive in training. It may even be worth shooting him an email to ask if he'd be doing any private consults. /thread invasion