Steve

Pet insurance is a good idea for at least the first 1-2 years. That's because this is the highest risk period for accidents and if anything nasty is going to turn up such as allergies, reactions to vaccinations or heartworm meds, HD etc chances are its going to happen in the first 2 years.

http://www.sallson.com/workmaremmas.html Lots on my website to help answer some of your training questions. There is no way any Maremma should be chasing or playing with any animal they are working with and that is the biggest danger with getting an older dog which hasn't been bonded properly or of trying to cut the initial training short.

In NSW you have to physically sight a dog at least once in every 24 hours via the prevention of cruelty to animals act. I know in Queensland they drop a dozen Maremma in the middle of a couple of hundred thousand acres and by nightfall they reckon that every animal of the species they work with on the property has a dog guarding it and they only check them every month and it works well, they cant live without them. But I would hate that - I guess because my dogs are my priority over my sheep and around here normal is seeing us everyday so we can check you're O.K. Im just too soft to be that kind of farmer. You gotta know your weaknesses :D

Also, a working Maremma is quite different to a non working Maremma.They crave company but not necessarily human company. My working Maremma say goodaye and come up for a pat when we come into their paddock but they want the company of the sheep way over and above anything else. They make you think they love you just as they make the sheep think they love them - everything these guys do from the minute they are born is designed to create this illusion so you think they feel about you the way that you feel about them - not necessarily true.They are working and part of that is making you believe they want to be with you and make you dependent on them and trust them to look after you if you are oe of their species but reality is - as much as it hurts to know it they prefer the company of what ever species they live with and feel they need to protect.Do they crave human company - no I dont think so but they are human friendly and accept that you are part of the species life that they live with . You cant live with them the way they used to live with them in Italy where the human is always part of the small flock and you dont want them to want your compnay more than they want the sheep. For me personally , I have them in my house and also working.The ones in the house sit with me, go with me everywhere I go as I move around the farm,have no interest at all with the sheep but there is a huge difference between that and the working dogs who say hello, get a feed and pat and clearly want the company of the sheep way over me. The beauty of the breed is that they just go with the flow what is normal on your property is normal for them, and thats why you need that initial period where the species they will work with get to trust them and they are working out what is normal and in my opinion part of that normal should be sighting them daily and handling them though I know that they do just fine if they are not.

They are hard to keep alive but this one got to have his Mum for two days so had the benefit of the colostrum so we are hoping that will keep him going - though even with the Maremma pup its not easy to bring them through.The Maremma take down a lot of the stress and Dorpers like company and accept the dogs quickly but its no easy ride. Dorpers are bred to thrive in drought and on poor pasture so the lamb milk you buy from the produce store isnt good for them as its too high in protein and they drink coles brand human milk or they get scours and it kills them. Im sorry Shawn died.I hate it when they linger.

Yep and they get as cranky as stud bulls when the girls are on heat. Because this one is being hand reared as it gets older it will be a real pain as it will run at us when we enter the paddock .

No wool here. I've a Dorper stud. No shearing,crutching, mulesing or eating anything I breed.

This is what that little boy will look like in about 10 months time.

It is - they just amaze me more and more every day and of course everyone should have lambs and puppies in their lounge room too No wonder nothing gets done around here.Every time I look at them I cant help but smile. Hubby wants to call the lamb Sunday Roast .

Its not The Maremma that dont cope without humans. Mine don't come in at all.They are with the sheep 24 hours a day but some human here has contact with them every day because that's what makes me happy. Ive no doubt the dogs would be just as happy if they didnt see humans as they are very much sheep dogs but I like to check them and say hello - which is easy for us because of the way our property runs and its size . There are thousands of working Maremma which have no human contact for weeks and they do just fine including several I've bred.The dogs are happy with what they learn is normal - they dont need humans but they cope well with humans if its normal.

Ive got an orphan lamb which we are feeding by hand and he has been driving me nuts calling for his Mum Maremma pup put a stop to that - stopped it within about a minute and now the baby lamb isnt missing his Mum so much. How cute is that!

I agree with Tralee - even though on big properties they are doing a great job they love their people and it seems such a waste to have them un attended by people for days or weeks at a time. I think its likely that mine would take a bait .

If you have more than one and someone were to keep coming in the night when they were told not to by the dogs chances are they would get dropped but if you had one it would depend on what they are guarding and where what they are guarding is. Ill try with some examples. Years ago when I was just learning about them I had one bitch which was born the same day as my youngest son. Im on a 500 acre property and I hear a noise - so did the bitch who was in the house with me .Everything about her bidy language told me she knew something was out there. She barked and I opened the door and told her to go out - Nup no way . Instead she got up when I opened the door and moved back to the kids bedroom door way as if to say .Yes there's a noise out there if you want to be brave and go out after them that's O.K. don't worry Ive got the kids covered .That's exactly how they work with the chooks or the sheep. If there is two one will go out the other will stay - If there is three one will stay dead centre as a back stop unless they actually go in and then 2 go in and one comes and goes for short bites and then back to the sheep. If I change the ratio the one that was going out stays with the sheep and takes over the job. But they bark and give loads of warning no matter how many there are and only go in if there is no option. So with Maremma you dont look for dead predators you look for no sign of predators any more. they guard their animals more than they guard the property but they know their boundary and work out in a heart beat what is normal. Someone walking in and behaving s if they are coming to the front door is yelled at a lot on the way but able to come in without real concern they will be bitten but be sneaky, come in running or attempt to go to an area where normally people outside of the family dont go and if you keep coming they will pin you down. We had one "night time human visitor" who came over our 6 feet high colour bond fence - he got back out again but left the back of his jeans behind where the dogs ripped them off him just a little bloodstained as he was going out again. We have everyone coming to the house usually stopping at the front of the house go further and we escort you but the guy who services the septic system decided to drive straight into the back yard - as he got out of the car the bitch knocked him off his feet by hitting him in the back of the knees and then stood over him and didnt let him up until I came out and she then moved off him and came and sat at my side with low growls if he looked like coming close - So they know what is normal- normal for the property, normal body language, normal reactions when there is no threat - anything out of the ordinary they react to. How they react depends on how quickly the intruder backs down and gets out.Keep coming they will definitely do what ever they think is needed to protect their flock. Wild dogs which don't do as they are told and stay back are found belly up in the dam with broken backs - hard to console the gentle giants that love me to bits with a killer but no doubt about it give em no choice thats exactly what they are if they cant avoid it . They react by knowing when their charges are feeling worried or stressed - With sheep its a stamp of the foot, an ear movement flared nostril etc Price depends on what you want them for and how much they are started. An adult which is working well with a species that can go straight in and guard a couple of hundred sheep or walk in and fend off Eagles for your chickens is worth more than an 8 week old pup because Ive done a lot of the work for you and you dont have to wait to get it to a point where its doing what you want it for. One which is going to be used for breeding is worth more than one which isn't and renting mine in fox season for a few months is worth $200 a week and thats only if I know you and like you. Mine start at around $800 for an 8 week old pup and the most Ive had is $4000 for a 2 year old boy working with sheep.

Maremmas work differently depending on how many are in the paddock. One stays with the flock as leaving it means they would be unprotected - a predator could come in from behind etc but put two or three or more there and you have a whole new ball game. The guys Ive placed which are protecting from wild pigs are working with nothing but Maremma and doing a great job. Maremma arent interested in hunting them or killing them unless they have no choice and the pigs dont take the hint and keep coming. Usually they dont keep coming.

Maremma keep wild boars away just as they keep wolves and bears away! Maremma in Italy is famous for its wild boar and while its known as a menu item the dogs are more than capable of keeping them out. I have about half a dozen working around Australia that Ive placed which keep away pigs and all the rest and doing a great job. However, they work better in numbers against pigs and wild dogs - see here http://www.maremmano.com/maremma_bond_to_livestock/using_packs_of_maremmas_to_guard.html

Oh my goodness! How terrible for you and your poor dog I know accidents can happen but how on earth could that happen in a kennel. So sorry for you. I have not boarded my dog for a few years now but I always go with a big one in Sydney because I think they have a reputation to look after...now I am not sure at all. The one we dealt with was one of the biggest in Sydney - Id rather small.

I have to admit I was pretty naive re boarding kennels until last year when Pacers was helping someone . I had always assumed that dogs which were left in kennels were handled daily especially in areas where things like ticks were a problem. Seemed like common sense to me but it isn't done and until a dog is falling down almost dead they don't know it has a tick ! The person we were helping had one of her dogs go down with a tick and it came close to dying and her other dog had a staph infection in its leg which wasnt picked up. It never occured to me that this wasnt the case and that some kennel facilities have a hundred plus dogs with only a couple of staff and the dogs are never touched through out their stay but I get that there are reasons why they dont handle them. If you had a sales pitch where you could give people that assurance it would be better than most around.

And they wonder why they loose support for funding for their crazy costly studies.

At least for now its not illegal to sell chips to anyone or to buy them if you are not authorised but in some states its illegal for anyone other than a vet or authorised implanter to put them in dogs, cats or horses. So far all Ive seen on line who sell them in australia have a policy of only selling chips intended for use in these animals to authorised implanters but I could buy them for my sheep, mice or guinea pigs and all it takes is this at the end of the order process. Which you may miss You must be an Authorised Implanter and licensed within the State or Territory in which you operate to purchase microchips from our site if you intend to implant: Dogs, Cats and/or Horses. By proceeding with your purchase you agree that you are capable and authorised to perform microchip implantations. There are no checks to ensure you are authorised and it would solve the problem but first you need to check your vet or authorised implanter will do it for you if you buy the chips from somewhere else.

Someone advertises in the DogsNSW journal from memory and I know someone who purchased some a couple of years ago via the net but it may have changed - they took the chips to a vet for implantation and they saved some dollars on each one though some states and some countries dont have requirements about implanters being the only ones able to put them in so its hard to believe you couldnt buy them somewhere unless you are an implanter. If I get some time Ill check it out.

Yeah I think I will, I'm not very happy with their attitude, I mean if other vets are happy enough to do it that way, I don't really know what there problem is. It's handy that this vet is only a 5 minute drive from us, & good incase of an emergency,but I'm disappointed in their attitude. You can buy the chips yourself directly from the distributor and take them with you to the vet or to who ever implants them.

The problem here is that you can be a Vic Dogs registered breeder and still breed unregistered dogs so they will never be registered with Vicdogs.

For me with the Maremma its a bit about how many I need . My Maremma [ with the exception of one ] work and at the moment I have 3 mobs of sheep so I need 3- 6 for that. Soon we will need another 2. The difference is that I haven't lost a lamb to foxes for 15 years but my son went to stay on a local property with no Maremma a few weeks ago and for every lamb alive each morning one was dead .This is unacceptable for me so the Maremma are a huge part of our lives and because of the layout and size of our property and how we manage the dogs every dog still gets to be loved by at least one human every day. Then I have one which stays with me and the 4 beagles in the house yard which is almost 3 acres. Soon I will keep a new puppy to live in the house for the older Maremma to train for me before she [or I ] gets too old. Both of these breeds are pretty easy to live with on this property as its all set up for living with beagles and Maremma dogs - large areas to run and play in, something different everyday to smell and be interested in, escape proof and they get to play with their dog pack and also sit around with us humans and be with us off lead were ever we go around the property and most of the daylight hours is us outside either working or sitting in their kennel [the porch] there is little for me to do to which feels like work and in the main their food is free as we grow some and barter for what we need that we don't produce. There isn't any pack issues or a need to separate them at feed times etc and whilst they sleep on the porch and stroll in and out of the house and they are all house trained they don't actually live in the house as in sleep inside and they all have good manners. Whilst I do have some penned areas to put them in for short times if I need to everything is free range so there isnt any kennel cleaning chores etc. I think if it were different breeds, if I worked away from the property, or I lived in suburbia, didnt have family who live here and share basics life might not be as easy but I know my limitations and that's about when it starts to feel like work rather than just living with them and enjoying doing what I do for them. But the real determination for me is that you cant just have unlimited numbers until sooner or later you have to separate them, keeping em locked in smaller areas,spending less time together and intrinsically changing how you live with them, where it changes from really being within the human and canine family and living the same lifestyle as the family and that is what determines the 'just one more' or not for me.

I have met some ANKC breeders who allow the pet market to dictate their breeding decisions but Ive never met an ANKC breeder who shows their dogs do that. Its about the goals again. One is breeding for pets and what appeals to them and those buying them, the other is breeding for a win in the ring and what appeals to a judge.