Steve

I guess owner was told about the urination problem - cause unknown, and an uncertain heartworm status ... I hope all goes well . I'm not sure being recently speyed makes it a behavioural issue . may well be - but it may also be related to the speying /surgery . I agree.

i think the dog see the vet as parrotpea spoke about getting the all clear form the vet and her teeth being worn down.

I think the difference that no one has really touched on, is that when the puppy farmed dog is sold in a petshop, money goes into the puppy farmer's pocket, thus directly enabling them to continue breeding. Shelter dogs being sold in pet shops is not going to line puppy farmer or backyard breeder pockets - even if they may have come from there in the first place. In fact if it's done on a large scale it will do the opposite as the BYB/Puppy farmers will not be able to send their pups to the pet shop because all the pups and kittens are shelter pets. I reacted negatively when I first heard about this a year or so ago but after thinking it through I feel that it's appropriate as long as the pups aren't in glass boxes and have room to move,they don't 'live' there all day and night, and the homes are screened appropriately. Good point about where the money goes but isn't it all about why you are against live animals being sold in pet shops ? If your only beef is that we are assuming that all puppies in pet shops come from puppy farmers then surely if pet shops are telling us they don't come from puppy farmers and money from the sale doesn't go back to a puppy farmer is it going to be O.K. to sell a dog from a pet shop? I believe that some puppies in pet shops come from people who keep their dogs in substandard conditions but I also believe some puppies in pet shops come from people who have an accidental litter, who only breed now and then and treat their dogs well etc and I know that some of these people only get a few dollars when they hand the puppies over to the pet shops. Sorry I still think its O.K. to go the pet shop and tell a dog's story or have photos of available dogs or have ex rescue dogs to show how great they are but having the actual animal in that shop leaves it open to so many variables and I still don't like it. By the way how many people sell their puppies to pet shops because they feel this is better than having to dump them at a pound not because it gives them money but because it gives the dog a chance to find a home better? Is there really a difference all the time?

This is intrinsically the major difference between someone who is a breeder and someone who breeds dogs. Anyone can breed a show champion, a nice pet, a working dog,obedience champ,agility champ, guide dog, search and rescue dog etc but being able to consistently breed dogs which are predictable, healthy well temperament ed for generations takes a hell of a lot of work, knowledge, and dedication. Without every decision being made by a breeder having that one main underlying theme and an understanding that anything they do today with the litter they are planning will impact on the entire breed if any of those animals are used for breeding way way into the future, It could mean the difference between generations of dogs living quality lives free of illness or temperament issues etc. Understanding this and taking the road which is sometimes not popular with people who don't understand exactly what betterment of the breed means takes heart and knowledge and courage. Without a breed standard - a base or blue print of what the end goal should resemble and be able to function as over time these things are extinguished. The people who were founders of the breeds understood that breeders would have their own challenges to face as time moved on. Genetic issues would show etc so they gave us a blue print , guidelines to stay within as closely as possible or to come back to as we went about the task of ensuring every generation was identifiable as a member of a breed and fit for the function it was intended to perform. The minute one breeder determines that only one aspect of the breed is important for improving the breed - for example a person who wants to breed show champions who doesn't also consider the intended function and temperament of the dog or someone who breeds working dogs who has no concern for how closely the dog resembles its ancestors the breed or at least that group of dogs in the breed is changed.You will have one group which is able to win in the show ring against a current visual interpretation of the standard and another which is producing dogs capable of doing a great job but looking less and less like the original. Those who want to own one of these dogs can no longer simply decide they want a dog of that breed and their choices become more complicated as they have to seek out breeders who have been breeding to the things they most want in that dog. They have to choose which part of the standard or breed peculiarities are most important to them which was never the intent of those who were working on the breed foundation. A person who breeds cross bred puppies only has to consider what they see to produce their litter and they get what they get based mainly on luck, a person who is breeding purebred dogs has to have as one of their goals being able to provide a level of predictability - why would we want a particular breed if we couldn't anticipate how its base instincts will be or how much grooming it requires, its management issues are , how it will fit our lifestyles etc Just as interpretations of a standard will differ so too will interpretations of what is for the betterment of the breed and each breeder will place more importance on one aspect or another and feel anything else is either secondary or irrelevant. Where the major dangers come in is when only one group is calling the shots and all of the breeders or most breed to their interpretation of what is best for the breed or out of ignorance for what breeding toward the betterment of the breed really is . This gives them no where to go when they realise they have neglected something they should have been taking into account and they become defensive , continue on because they believe only their goals are important and really bugger it up.

what was she checking them for - is she a vet?

I agree puppy farm dogs shouldnt be here in the first place but what about when they are already in existence - dont they have just as much hope of finding a home as a shelter dog? How to stop dogs being bred in thise conditions and how to stop dogs coming into shelters is another whole topic but what Im saying is any argument you can use to justify any animal being in a pet shop and being sold via that medium can be given to the others. Simple solution is to profile dogs available and promote the shelter without the actual dogs which are currently for sale being there and Im happy for breeders to do the same.

Yes I get that but you could say the same thing for puppy farm dogs too. If they aren't sold by a certain time frame they are killed .The puppy farmer doesn't just hang onto them indefinitely so you can use the same argument for puppy farmer dogs being better off in a pet shop too. If they are not relying on emotional blackmail and impulse buys then where is the harm in them taking dogs in whch are not for sale - ex rescue dogs and encouraging people to go out of their way and visit the shelter?

thank you. I would advise everyone to take a good look at this.

border Collies? http://www.mastamariners.com/border_collie_colours_page-02.html

Oh big question is she desexed? If not she may just be coming on heat - girls often get the piddles and leave their scent everywhere about 2 weeks before they actually come on heat too. Having a new environment may mean she is letting the boys know she is now here even if she is already desexed - old habits.

Female dogs which have lived with lots of other dogs especially if they have been breeding dogs have a major thing about marking their spots. This is really difficult to do much about though usually its weeing on their bed or some other spot they decide should be uniquely theirs if she is piddling everywhere with no obvious desire to keep that for herself its going to be almost impossible to train it out of her. On the good side some of them poop in their beds etc to do this so it could be worse. Just checking Ive asked the right question is she obviously deliberately sqatting and weeing or is she sort of leaking ? If she is obviously sqatting and weeing its probably behavioural and Ive no idea how you can do anything about that except make her an outside dog. For future reference - now you have the course you will see what temperature and various other things are normal - an infection is associated with a temperature so often you can eliminate some things by taking the temperature

If this is true and I believe it is and Im assuming these animals have come from a shelter to get to the pet shop you could be taking animals which are incubating these things to a pet shop and spreading that everywhere. you see my problem is that different words but still the same type of things said for and against puppies from breeders being sold in pet shops. Rescue talk about germs in pet shops from breeder puppies when there is as much risk - if not more from shelter dogs in pet shops. rescue talk about how its better for a dog to be in a pet shop than a shelter but surely if these breeders are so terrible surely these dogs would be better off in a pet shop than their kennels, if animals are sold via impulse which come form breeders who sell to pet shops so they can be sold with a greater risk because they are being saved from death if they are rescue dogs. I am more than happy to see people in petshops promoting rescue dogs or breeders dogs but the dogs which are there for a promo should not be dogs which are actually for sale. I'm happy for photos of actual dogs, profiles of actual dogs etc being thrown around in pet shops but no live animal should be on display or sold via a pet shop and if someone sees a photo or meets a dog which previously was in shelter and if they have to then go out of their way to actually meet the dog they may like to take home then that's exactly what is being pushed in advice to people buying from breeders. in my opinion its simply unacceptable - it conveys a double message and no live animals should be sold in pet shops.

But these are the same arguments which can be used about people buying any dog from any source especially from breeders. Buying a dog from a pet shop made it easier for you to source and see the dog first any breeder selling puppies to pet shops could and do use the same argument.

I get it. Just cant see how its O.K. to have it both ways - for me its black and white if live animals shouldn't be sold in pet shops then live animals shouldn't be sold in pet shops.

Go in through the shop as if you are buying the course - better PM me your real name first so I know who you are.

Female dogs which have lived with lots f other dogs often do this to mark their possie - the temperature should tell you if she has an infection.

Only when they have been complained about... *grin* T. Yeah thats what I thought.

Geez Sheridan Im glad you did - was like you were talking a whole new language to me . Hope no one minds if I hijack this a a minute What program do printers like? What is the difference between digital and the other?

If its a UTI it needs to be diagnosed and dealt with pretty quickly and you need a fresh sample. these can be painful for the dog or it may just be something simple like marking her spots- either way you need a diagnosis have you taken her temperature? Hows the cough ? Has she been examined by the vet since she came into care,wormed, vaccinated, checked for heart worm ? The cough could be symptoms of many things including some which your dogs may catch. I agree with Dogmad you have to have some protocols in place to prevent people clocking up unnecessary vet bills etc but regardless of what the shelter's policies are re vet treatment at the end of the day if anyone is pinged for not getting vet treatment it will be the person who is responsible for that animal at the time and they have told you to do the sample so sooner is better than later but personally if I were you with the weeing and the cough Id feel better if the vet examined her. Pacers has this condition in writing for all of our foster carers but all of our animals are checked before they go into foster care and we may hesitate and look for alternatives or owner finances over a recommended treatment we wont over a diagnosis if one is needed. I will shout you a free foster carers course if you would like it. Might help for next time. http://www.mdba.net.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=11&Itemid=743

I have a maremma bitch who ran up behind me and hit me in the back of the legs and skittled me like a ten pin and my ankle went pop.My washing went all over the place covered i dirt . One of my sons saw it and standing with his mouth open I was yelling at the dog and said to the kid [ about 16 at the time] come and help me up .'Not me' he said 'that brown snake is still too close to you yet. The dog knocked me down to stop me from walking into the snake and was now between me and the snake telling it to move on.

Im happy for them to have advertisements in their store for shelter animals, to hand out pamphlets and have photos of dogs and their profiles, be in the store personally and tell people who they are what they do and how to find them even to have animals in their store which are not available for sale today or any day but I hate it when the actual animals are there and the tug on the heart save this dog etc is on. I wont go into a pet shop which has live animals whether they are rescue animals or not.

Registered breeder sell puppies to pet shops in a couple of different ways. One is up front as they are able to do and they supply papers or they sell without saying they are registered. I know a registered breeder who regularly picks up puppies of 4 different breeds that Im aware of and takes them over the border and sell s them to a pet shop and no one ever knows the registered breeder ever had them. There is also a dealer who buys litters of registered puppies and no export certificates from the CC are ever issued as they leave for asian countries and another who buys registered puppies and they apply for an export certificate via the CC and they land in a pet shop over seas. Puppies that dont pass the vet check due to a hernia or heart murmur etc are sold off to a pet shop in the western suburbs of Sydney as the breeder is on their way home with no papers. New people see they are able to sell puppies to pet shops via the Code of ethics for the CC and don't understand the issues. When this was first introduced in NSW there were big one page ads run for months telling breeders they could sell registered puppies to PIAA pet shops and they were encouraged to do so. The export agent who purchases litter lots of puppies for an overseas pet shop often placed ads in the Journal. The propoganda that has become gospel distributed for some time now has an impact on some of this. I witnessed a very well respected registered breeder negotiate with a dealer to take all of the puppies in her litter other than the one she wanted to keep knowing they would end up in a pet shop chain with a poor reputation. She took $50 each for them - her puppies would sell for $1000 plus if she sold them herself - so I asked why. Answer because she couldnt advertise them because someone would see the ad and everyone knows what they say about breeders who advertise. Then of course there is the fear of having your reputation affected if something goes wrong, some genetic issue turns up or the dog ends up in rescue and the pressure of having to be responsible for the dog its whole life. If we are to do anything about the breeders selling puppies to pet shops regardless of whether they are registered or not we have to look at the reward the breeder gets apart from money when they do this - because every single one of them could get much more for their puppies if they personally sold them without going to a pet shop. Clearly its not just about the money.

I dont think her not being a PIAA member or having poor spelling is anything to judge her "rescue" activities by but there is much else here which is not good at all. Do the RSPCA monitor rescue orgs?

Your vet is in your area and treating dogs with fleas so Id be pretty tempted to take his word for it but when your yard is so infested you will need a method of stopping the fleas getting on your dog in the first place as he will suffer constantly until they die when you are using these products which have been recommended. You could look at diatomaceous earth [ food grade] which works like a miracle http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/diatomaceous_earth_fleas.html and you can also use tropical aerogard sprayed on the dog too to prevent them jumping on inthe first place.

We have a half price listed for the Certificate in Canine Foster Care for one week - it helps to prepare you and know what to look for in a rescue group you may want to volunteer for . http://www.mdba.net.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=23&category_id=11&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=748