Steve

QLD is the only one who has that program at present as far as im aware, and no I don't agree with the tick the boxes and pay you get it. As I have previously said.. No fee, an award. Sounds interesting - how do you see that managed? We hand one out at every awards evening with the Diane Gunn Scarcella memorial award. Its the only one we dont take nominations for from the public.

disagree, that's what life memberships are handed out for. And im saying that (if I had it my way) the elite breeder program (or whatever you wish to call it) would run a similar way, by the existing governing body and not a private business. Yes that would be great except they still have the same restrictions and when some who have life memberships actually export puppies to pet shops it sort of puts a damper on it all anyway. The accredited breeder programs are up and running now that's managed by the governing body do you think that's preferrable ? Tick the boxes and pay the fee and bobs your uncle.

Do you mean not registered at all or not registered with the ANKC ? Both. Eg Kelpies( recognised breed) bred as working dogs but that are not registered with ANKC and unrecognised breeds ( and neither circumstances want to be ANKC registered- just left as they are). With some breeds there will be two registries - one working one show - similar to how we have done for Border Collies see below. With breeds who are not recognised by the ANKC but who have their own registry - maybe. For GSD all of their titles and jobs will be entered as well as health issues on the registry. Working Registry ; Working Bloodlines. Dog must be registered with, or the offspring of dogs registered with ISDS, ABCA, CBCA, AWBC or MDBA Working Registry parents. General Registry; Includes Show and Work bloodlines or any combination. Dogs must be registered with Acceptable KCs, MDBA general registry or MDBA working registry ISDS, ABCA, CBCA, AWBC or any combination of the accepted working and KC registries. Dogs who qualify may be dual registered in MDBA Working registry and MDBA General Registry Dogs or their offspring can move from Working Registry into general Registry Dogs or their offspring cannot move from General Registry into working registry

you really know nothing about the dog world do you? If I left the ANKC my dogs would become unregistered and joining the MDBA would get me no where as they are not recognised worldwide. My bitches pedigree is tracable back something like 32 generations, it would be gone; poof; if I left the ANKC. No one would sell me semen to import, I would be unable to continue to breed registered pedigree dogs, if I wanted to keep breeding I would become a BYB. But there wouldn't be any point to that cause my breed aren't exactly popular. Why would you leave the ANKC ? cause Annie said I should if I wanted to prove I was ethical Oh Dear

That is exactly what has been happening for many, many years. Some people are passionate REAL dog lovers and will risk trespass charges and criminal record to protect and bring awareness of puppy farms http://www.prisonersforprofit.org.au/?p=385 So only activists are real dog lovers? Question: are you kind of new to all this stuff? I'm reading 'convert' of some sort from your posts. No not all activists are the only dog lovers at all. But they have got real balls to go and get punched in the head to expose the cruelty of puppy farms. I know it is political and there are some nutters in the activists but overall I think they have balls and I take my hat off to people who are in my opinion, incredibly brave. I an a convert to being VERY anti puppy farms and BYB. As i said previously, I abhore puppies and kittens being used as commodities with no concern for their welfare (or that of breeding females) O.K But you had better stand back a bit and get a bit more educated on the subject before you go backing fanatics and terrorists.

you really know nothing about the dog world do you? If I left the ANKC my dogs would become unregistered and joining the MDBA would get me no where as they are not recognised worldwide. My bitches pedigree is tracable back something like 32 generations, it would be gone; poof; if I left the ANKC. No one would sell me semen to import, I would be unable to continue to breed registered pedigree dogs, if I wanted to keep breeding I would become a BYB. But there wouldn't be any point to that cause my breed aren't exactly popular. Why would you leave the ANKC ?

We're not saying scrap it.

Do you mean not registered at all or not registered with the ANKC ?

How do they have a greater burden? There is no difference between an ethical ANKC breeder and an MDBA breeder. Only that the MDBA breeder member has coughed up more money to be a member of an extra organisation. Sounds like MDBA has higher ethics to me. Not selling to pet shops = Have you actually read what the Code of ethics are????? Make it easier <H4 style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify">MDBA Breeders Code of Conduct</H4> At all times I will have a goal of breeding to improve, restore or develop our breeds via a process of selection over successive generations and, before breeding a litter, I will give serious and equal consideration to construction, temperament, health and soundness, in the choice of breeding stock. I will always bear in mind that aggression and nervousness form no part in temperament and character of any dog. I shall aim all breeding to the improvement of my breed(s) No bitch shall be mated without due consideration as to the well being of the bitch and her offspring. I agree that I will not deliberately in-breed with mother to son, father to daughter or brother to sister unless I have clear & substantive reasons, and approval from the board of the MDBA to conduct the mating. (15/9/09) I agree that I will never provide false information regarding the parentage of my litter. (15/9/09) I shall not breed a litter unless I am certain of finding good homes for the puppies. As the owner of stud dog(s) I will make it very clear to the bitch owners of the commitment and facilities necessary to rear a litter. I shall never allow any puppy to leave my premises to go to a new home before the age of 8 weeks. No puppy shall be sold without having had its first vaccination and regular-worming treatments and I will provide documented evidence of such to the purchaser. I will never supply a puppy without a diet sheet. A full and accurate puppy care sheet(s) shall be supplied to the purchaser, outlining health care information, heartworm control, flea control, reasons for desexing, microchip information, etc. I will provide a full and detailed health record of any puppy I sell to the purchaser showing a complete history of that pup from the date of whelping to the date of delivery. And I will keep breeding and health records for all dogs in my care. I will provide a written health guarantee for every pup I breed and sell. I will provide on going support and advice for the life of the pup. I will never knowingly sell any puppy/adult dog to laboratories, pet shops or dealers in dogs or to person's known to sell stock to any of the above. I shall not provide any stud services to such persons (a dealer is defined as any person who regularly buys stock for sale at a profit). I will screen prospective buyers for suitability and shall fully advise them of the characteristics of the dog as a breed stressing the necessity for care, grooming and ample exercise. I will register all pups with the breed's registering body unless they are disqualified from registration due to a non recognized colour. I will supply the buyer with the dog's registration papers from my breeds' registrar unless this is not practicable in which case I will provide an endorsed copy to the buyer . I will also clearly state whether the puppy is on limited register or full register (where applicable) and explain the benefits and restrictions of that register. I will never allow a puppy or adult which has any apparent physical defects or which shows definite departure from the Breed Standard to be knowingly sold without the buyer being made aware of such defects and its possible consequences. I will only sell puppies and adults, which, to the best of my knowledge and belief are in good health at the time of sale. I will impress on the buyer that they should contact me in the event of any problem arising with the puppy or adult and that I will make every effort to be of assistance in these circumstances. In the case of a dog needing to be re-homed I will take full responsibility to assist as much as possible in achieving this end and will accept the return of that dog at any age if this in any way possible. My advertising will be strictly factual. I will not use misleading exaggeration or unfounded implications of superiority. I will not promote my dogs as something they are not. I shall refrain from making negative or malicious statements about other breeder's, their dogs or practices. I will be co-operative in any measures aimed at eradicating hereditary diseases or genetic defects. I will seek information and understanding of genetic diseases and defects and use this understanding in my breeding program. I commit myself to a positive breeding program aimed at eradicating such hereditary diseases or defects known or suspected within my breed. I will be honest and forthright in notifying any genetic or heritable diseases found to be in any dogs I have bred and pass on any information required to help breeders make necessary choices in their breeding program. I shall not breed a litter unless I have the time and facilities to devote proper care and attention to the rearing of the puppies and to the well being of the dam. Any dog/puppy in my care shall receive immediate professional attention should it become ill. I will continue to offer helpful assistance to any puppy/adult dog buyer as long as such assistance is required. I will allow representatives of the MDBA to inspect my property or my dogs if requested. All dogs in my care will be adequately housed in clean, comfortable and weatherproof accommodation with a minimum of 2 hours off lead and exercise with appropriate stimulation and companionship per day. All dogs in my care will be under control at all times, housing and exercise areas kept clean and all care taken to limit possible disturbance to neighbours. I will lead by example and advocate responsible dog ownership. I will microchip all animals as prescribed by law. All follow up paper work will be fulfilled and sent to the appropriate canine authority. I will exhibit and promote excellence in the discipline and practice of dog breeding. I will encourage the exchange of knowledge, of technical, practical and ethical matters between members. I will uphold the dignity of dog breeding and the status of members of the Master Dog Breeders & Associates. This will be reflected by the knowledge and understanding, skills and positive attitude toward the members of the Master Dog Breeders & Associates . I will uphold and maintain the integrity of the Master Breeders & Associates through impartiality and confidentiality. I will act and advise in accordance and within the parameters of my experience. I will do nothing which will bring the MDBA into disrepute.

Not yet. Is MDBA focused on the pet market? No.

How do they have a greater burden? There is no difference between an ethical ANKC breeder and an MDBA breeder. Only that the MDBA breeder member has coughed up more money to be a member of an extra organisation. Thats right there isnt but there is between the two codes of conduct

That is interesting as I though Pet Shops were not allowed to sell purebred registered puppies. That is what I have been told by Pets Paradise and other shops Not true Pets Paradise are not PIAA accredited so purebred registered breeders cant sell their puppies to them or they breach their code but they do sell to PIAA accredited pet shops and agents. You poor thing it is hard to follow isnt it?

Um pretty obvious you have made out that the MDBA breeders are elite & above law so why would you want members who are also ANKC that follow a COE that is against the MDBA ?? You have gone on who ANKC allow crossbreeds but you wont & the list goes on . You can't have your cake & eat it . Well it seems obvious to me that the more restrictive one will always be accepted just as a code of conduct with the ANKC does not get you out of mandatory codes if mandatory codes are more prohibitive. Of course I can have my cake and eat it - and just to be sure I will ensure that the extra bit which says which ever code is more restrictive wins out to ensure neither MDBA or ANKC are doing anything to breach either code - just in case you arent the only one who doesnt get it. We do agree that just because the code says you can do something that you dont have to right? Thank You

One PIAA accredited agent sends thousands of purebred registered puppies out every year to an oversears pet shop. And one pet shop in NSW sells nothing else but purebred registered puppies. Issuing export certificates for puppies which go out in litter lots to Pets Central and a couple of puppy farmers in Japan and Hong Kong bring in around 100,000 a year to the ANKC in NSW alone

Not yet.

Annie just remember one thing the MDBA are happy to accept ANKC members & hold dual membership so whose COE do they follow? If that aspect is important to you then surely you would want them to be an MDBA breeder only then?? Why ?

Excuse me ? Since when does the MDBA allow its members to breed cross bred dogs? That's how I read it, happy to be correct if im wrong. Here we go again. If you are going to go on with this then you also have to accept that the ANKC allows this too. People who will be working with the foundation registry will not be MDBA breeder members. MDBA breeder members are not able to breed cross bred dogs even though ANKC breeder members can. MDBA Breeder members use the stud registry - main or limited.

By the way Sway the ANKC allows its members to breed cross bred dogs.

not sure unless it is a voluntary restriction, ie agreement by breeders not to engage in that activity and ramifications by the organisation if they breach their voluntary agreement? Can someone tell me if this is right ANKC - sells to pet shop MDBA - does not sell to pet shops If that is the case, I will go with MDBA So you would rather support the MDBA who will allow it's members to breed cross breed dogs?? Excuse me ? Since when does the MDBA allow its members to breed cross bred dogs?

Well all this energy and the end result is that even just within the last hour on this forum people are sending people off to registered breeders and Im sure considering the topic I noticed is about pet shops that the public will think registered means something different to what the people advising do. Such is life.

Yep and people can muck it up with one dog as well as if they have 100.

double post

That was why we went with the business entity we did - so we didnt have to worry about that.

Um those COE are no more special than what ANKC members already abide by Dogs NSW - Members can and do breed cross bred dogs as long as they are not registered purebreds and they can sell to export agents and pet shops if they are PIAA accredited. A Member shall not knowingly permit any of that Member's pure bred dogs to be mated to adog of a different breed, to a cross-bred dog, or to any unregistered dog of the same breed or to a dog not on the Main Register unless:- i) such mating is for the health, welfare and/or the development of a breed or an aspect thereof, and ii) The member has obtained the prior approval of the Board of Directors. The prohibition against crossbreeding contained in this clause shall not apply to guide and working dogs. 12/08 A Member shall not: (a) sell any dog to commercial dog wholesalers or retail pet dealers, who are not accredited by the Pet Industry Association of Australia Limited (PIAA). (05/05) (b) allow a dog owned by that member to be given as a prize or donation in a contest of any kind. (10/03)

I cant see where its going either and it is sad. Im not sure Id use the word plug though.