Steve

I think , no cross that out I KNOW you are on the right track with your comments re impulse buying, you cant' do it with firearms, you cant' buy a drivers' licence on the spot you have cooling off periods for many purchases so why not? If we are all really serious about our love of dogs' and/or other animals why would you be concerned about some restraints on the impulse buying of a pet for '" little johnnie " in the days' particularly coming up to xmas. If you wish to buy a pet for your child plan ahead, dont' just walk into your local shopping complex and walk out with a totally unplanned pet. How about we all get real and put the welfare of our animals above the rush and the greed for money at all cost. Lets' make sure that the poor animals that are flogged every year get a fair chance at a decent life. Yep I agree but do I have to lose my rights to make decisions on what I think is best for its health to do that?

Look no doubt about it they need a mandatory code for pet shops - the fact they dont have that yet is amazing but why drag breeders who are doing the right thing into their crap and take away our rights to make decsions whcih we think are best for our puppies. Bloody hell! Especially when they already have that filthy law anyway which says they all have to be desexed at 12 weeks. If there's a whole lot of dogs at that age not desexed then obviously they either need to enforce what they already have or chuck it in as a failure.

Alright Ill bite how will desexing stop this? The demand for puppies is still the same so eliminating oops litters simply means someone else will breed them. Thisis irresponsible breeding problem is an irresponsible owner problem and all this does is ensure we have more sick desexed dogs and more sick desexed dogs coming into pounds. But we can blame the breeder for that too.

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Well its got me buggered how any one can say they care about preventing dogs from suffering and still push for early age desexing - especially when you can advocate for only purebreds to be given the chance to get out of it or purebred dog owners to be able to make an informed decision about what is best for their dog in conjunction with their vet. The introduction of mandatory sterilisation needlessly and recklessly interferes with the traditional relationship between veterinarians and their clients. The decision to perform surgery on a pet should be made, weighing risks and benefits, by the pet owner in consultation with their vet. In addition, any regulation which establishes an arbitrary age as the standard for mandatory sterilisation ignores the variables between breeds and scientific research. The appropriate age for sterilisation is an issue that is ardently debated in the animal arena, with well documented medical and behavioural problems that can develop in dogs that are sterilised too early. The decision to sterilise any animal must remain with pet owners, in conjunction with their Veterinarian, and the decision must be based on education and knowledge rather than through a lack of choice and government legislation. Numerous Peer reviewed studies discuss the Possible Negative effects of early sterilisation. [see references ] Negative, sterilisation male dogs: If done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis; increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6; triples the risk of hypothyroidism; increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment; triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems; quadruples the of prostate cancer; doubles the small risk of urinary tract cancers; increases the risk of orthopaedic disorders; and increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations. Negative, spaying female dogs: If done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a common cancer in larger breeds with a poor prognosis; increases the risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 2.2 and cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of >5; this is a common cancer and major cause of death in some breeds; triples the risk of hypothyroidism; increases the risk of obesity by a factor of 1.6-2, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems; causes urinary "spay incontinence" in 4-20% of female dogs; increases the risk of persistent or recurring urinary tract infections by a factor of 3-4; increases the risk of recessed vulva, vaginal dermatitis, and vaginitis, especially for female dogs spayed before puberty; doubles the small risk of urinary tract tumours; increases the risk of orthopaedic disorders; and increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations.

The real problem at ACT animal shelters is not due to an excess of irresponsible dog breeding or entire animals being sold . It is an undersupply of responsible dog ownership.

Why not simply have a mandatory code for pet shops and leave breeders alone.

Say no to any new laws.If its already law to have pets desexed at 12 weeks then where is the bloody problem? Why not just police the law they already have? Oh thats right they cant - because a dog is my property and if I dont want to have its organs yanked out they cant make me. I will not sell my Maremma puppies or my beagle puppies at 8 weeks desexed. Full stop.If someone wants to desex their 12 week old pup thats their decision but no animal Im responsible for will be de sexed before its first birthday. Do they really think that this would do anything to stop people from interstate selling puppies at 8 weeks to people who live in their state entire anyway ?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/12...9244.htm Proposed animal laws 'smart': RSPCA Updated 6 hours 38 minutes ago Map: Canberra 2600 Related Story: Greens push to toughen animal welfare laws The RSPCA is backing a draft bill that would make the ACT's animal welfare laws the toughest in the nation. The draft bill was introduced to the Assembly yesterday by the Greens and would enforce all dogs and cats to be desexed at the point of sale. Other measures include tighter restrictions for pet shops and higher fines for animal cruelty. The Chief Executive of the ACT RSPCA Michael Linke says desexing animals at the point of sale would make a significant impact. "The law in the ACT is to have a cat desexed at 12 weeks of age or a dog desexed at 6 months of age, the problem is that pet shops, newspaper sales, the internet sales are selling these animals younger than that," he said. "So there's a loophole...this type of legislation will guarantee that we have legislation in Canberra with teeth that will stop the influx of animals here at the RSPCA." Another proposal is to ban pet shops from displaying kittens and puppies in the front window, and prohibiting children from buying pets. Mr Linke says he's been advocating for many of the measures outlined in the draft bill for years , and he's urging all sides of politics to support it. "We'll be lobbying strenuously with the Chief Minister and his cabinet as well as the Liberal Party to see that smart legislation like this does get carriage and gets passed by the ACT Legislative Assembly," he said. "It's laws that we need in Canberra, it's not going to negatively affect anybody. It's positive, good sense legislation and I'm hoping it gets tripartisan support."

For those of you who thought there may have been a grand plan in place for animal rights. This was written in 1987. Very Interesting - how many of them are they working on now do you reckon? From “Politics of Animal Liberation” by Kim Bartlett, published in ANIMAL AGENDA, November 1987 1. Abolish by law all animal research 2. Outlaw the use of animals for cosmetic and product testing, classroom demonstration and in weapons development 3. Vegetarian meals should be made available at all public institutions, including schools 4. Eliminate all animal agriculture 5. No herbicides, pesticides or other agricultural chemicals. Outlaw predator control. 6. Transfer enforcement of animal welfare legislation away from the Department of Agriculture 7. Eliminate fur ranching and the use of furs. 8. Prohibit hunting, trapping and fishing. 9. End the international trade in wildlife goods 10. Stop any further breeding of companion animals, including purebred dogs and cats. Spaying and neutering should be subsidized by state and municipal governments. Abolish commerce in animals for the pet trade. 11. End the use of animals in entertainment and sports. 12. Prohibit the genetic manipulation of species. NOTE: This was written in 1987, long before genetic engineering and cloning. In this context, “genetic manipulation” means selective breeding” **Cross-posting notice** Cross posting is highly encouraged and welcomed

Do registered breeders have to do it? Not many. I thought hip scores & PRA were compulsary for some breeds ? Not sure about what else. Hip scores and elbow scores and maybe one or two others in very few breeds is compulsory before a litter is regsitered but any result can still be used in a breeding program. There are very few mandatory tests required by registered breeders.

Same as the others guys Names for people who would like to come in on this one and we will get Troy to set us up a nice private area to work it through.

Do registered breeders have to do it? Not many.

Bump - any others rescue? councils

maltese luna mushka Any others?

allerzeit christinex future dogtrainer sllebasi Any others?

Only one?

oakway fanuilos indigirl spikespuppy Sheridan rysup lindsay espinay2 bisart dobes amanda j kirty Have I missed anyone?

A big part of this is going to be preparing your pet for an emergency - not just being prepared yourself for an emergency for your pet. One of the biggest issues we face with Pacers is people who have feral dogs, which are not very user friendly - not vaccinated, not chipped, not registered etc who need to be looked after. sllebasi rural pug perrin are you in perrymum?

Well at the risk of upsetting many - The fact that these breeders are prepared to supply copies of health checks for the parents is a much bigger issue than the rest of the advice that's been given out here and a better start than many breeders give their pups. Whether or not it will be hard to get help and advice in showing because you buy from a little known breeder in the ring, whether or not they are capapble of picking the best pup,or even if you come last every time in the show ring when starting out in the year 2010 in this breed are the least of the issues you need to be starting with. Starting with a genetically sound healthy dog with less risk of breeding unhealthy puppies in the future is preferrable to starting with a great looking dog which more closely fits the current critique of the breed standard that's a genetic time bomb. No matter where you buy your pup from its much easier to breed up to a pup that looks good if you start with a priority on health - look for a healthy dog which has tested parents and sound grandparents ,the ability for you to speak to previous puppy buyers for references and then consider if it does well in the ring that this is a bonus. Every breeder has to breed dogs with consideration of the standard because if we dont they will all stop resembling the breed but anyone can breed a champion because you breed to what you see - not everyone can breed consistently healthy animals which can also be champions and for anyone starting out prioritising health is more important now than it ever has been before.

Bertie too please Troy

thanks steve, explained well, and yes, eating the placenta is natural and helps the bitch immensley. This was the first time I used calcium and nutrigel, but obviously didn't need to. As a modern breeder its really tempting to go with what we think will help but part of the problem is that the access we have to real studies which would help us to be sure we arent doing more harm than good is virtually non existent. We rely on word of mouth and we love our girls and want to do anything we can to help them and make the process go without a problem. Sometimes we are made to feel that the more we do and the more we interfere the better the breeder we are. That is debatable because at the end of the day we arent doing our dogs or our breeds any good if we set them up to where they cant do the whole show without us. I hear the argument that our litters are precious , that we work too hard and wait too long to get these beauties on the ground and we cant take any risks - but how do you know whether you are increasing the risks rather than decreasing them. So before we venture into doing things we think will help we need to carry that a step or two further and be sure that we get what we are aiming for and not a bigger pain in the neck.

yep

If your bitch is in good nick and you allow her to do what comes naturally and eat the placentas you are better off giving her nothing more than fresh water. When the dog is understress like during labour she needs her parathyroid hormone to cut in because the way calcium operates in the body is that it lays down calcium in the bones when things are easy and takes from it when things get rough .To do this the parathyroid hormone needs to cut in when she needs it but if you suppliment her body isnt used to the natural process and the parathyroid hormone doesnt cut in. Because of this giving her calcium supps orally is quite dangerous - its completely different to a calcium injection which goes straight to the blood stream and used if the bitch is showing signs of eclampsia because her body forgets how to go after its natural source to stabilize the calcium needed. Rather than increase contractions it helps nerves relax, and is very important in the fluid surrounding the brain and spinal cord. The calcium level in the brain and spinal chord is kept constant no matter what is happening to the calcium levels in the rest of the body. If you give her nutrigel - Simple carbohydrates tamper with the hydrochloric acid in the stomach and the body needs the hydrochloric acid to fully metabolise the calcium. There is also other issues relating to how calcium needs other nutrients to assimilate and if you give too much of one without the other you can get a variety of problems. Trust the bitch - she knows whats best for her and just as at most when a human is in labour they suck on ice and dont get sweet vitamin pastes given to them or loads of calcium to help contractions the dog doesnt need it either especially as the enzymes and hormones + nutrients she needs are in the placentas which she eats during the whole process.

Sunny Ganmain is nice a dry.We have a few puddles thats all .We are far enough away from Wagga and Grong Grong to stay clear.