Steve

Elliots mum if you contact the MDBA they will tell how to go about having the health issues of your dog recorded on our system - this will enable all of our breeders to access this information for them to be aware of it being in those lines when they are considering selecting dogs to breed with.

In part I agree but adding hip and elbow and DNA tests to a pedigree isnt going to help this type of thing you need to be able to add health problems, temperament problems etc ,you need to be able to gather the info because its unlikely that breeders will volunteer this type of thing and you need breeders who are prepared to do something about it , including sharing the info and change their priorities in their breeding programs. Victoria has an increase in memberships but those joining don't even need to own or breed a purebred dog - if they have a membership it allows them to breed any of their dogs whether they are purebred or not with the same exemptions all Vic dogs members get because they are members. Very few breeds have mandatory testing and Id like to see the stats which show MOST registered breeders test their parent stock and that's not even getting near what they should be testing for and selecting for even if it means not getting a ribbon.

This is really what it comes down to and I couldn't tell you how often I hear of cases which have developed into a horrible experience caused by the hightened emotional component when your beautiful baby is suffering and a feeling that the breeder didn't care enough.If she cared surely she would have responded with more compassion and made you feel that she was suffering because of this too, surely if she were sorry she would not breed this combination of dogs to prevent it happening again and surely she would not imply that you were over reacting when you are trying like mad to stay calm and deal with what you have been dealt. BUT breeders are not always very good at dealing with such things and it may not be as it seems. Not knowing all of the variables and the incidence the breeder has seen of problems in her lines perhaps her making a decision to breed them again is, for her justifiable. If communication with you has stopped perhaps she doesn't know the full extent of the situation etc. as it is now. I understand its not just about the money so you need to ask is it worth it to keep pushing for compensation or do you feel its better to let it go.If you feel you want to continue to seek compensation you need legal advice and fair trading is the best place to start to proceed with action. I hope the worst of it is over for you and your dog and that he improves and lives a long life without more suffering.

Aloe Vera Juice and a child's multi vitamin and mineral. If you tell me his size I will give you dosages

Some people may feel your Vet is someone they trust nor feel comfortable with and would prefer their own Vet. This is the reason why everything should be spelled out in writing before the puppy goes home. To the Poster: Don't take the puppy back (not that you can force them into it), that is a bitch of a thing to do and what are you going to do with it? Euth it? It's not a toaster. Just give them back the purchase price, that is the right thing to do - after-all you are the one who sold them a defective dog. You can offer them a refund if they return the dog but they don't have to accept that and you may find you are not only paying the refund but also the vet bills. By offering a refund under the conditions you decide will apply you are accepting fault - or you wouldn't be offering a refund in the first place and you have not much defence. Under Australian consumer law it isnt an automatic done deal that they have to return the product to get a refund.

I dont think I only see one side of the story .I try to assess a situation based on my experience and Im a breeder and a dog owner . This is a heartbreaking story and my heart goes out to you. Breeding animals which are destined to a life of misery and or major surgeries to correct things which impact on quality of life is in my opinion right up there with puppy farming - in fact I think its worse from a cruelty perspective so Id like to know the breeder has taken this seriously and they are actively doing what is required to try to prevent anyone else having to deal with what you are dealing with via the BOAS. The BOAS is caused by breeding choices and whilst the warts and the bacteria may have originated from point of sale you would have a hard case in trying to pin that on the breeder. Both things are contractible by any dog at any time so what comes as a result of the BOAS and what comes from the bacteria and warts need to be viewed separately. Obviously the breed is a brachy breed and all dogs of these breeds have brachy head syndrome to at least some extent .Some would argue that as you were purchasing this breed you accept the fact that the risk for this is increased unless the breeder implied that their puppies would be immune to this risk or in some cases even if you only assumed there would be no risk because you were using that particular breeder and it wasnt explained to you that there was the same risk factors at play. There are two big issues here - what may be the legal situation and what is the ethical or moral situation. The legal situation is that you dont have to return the dog if you dont want to in order to qualify for some kind of compensation. Any breeder in the year 2014 in Australia who places this on conditions for a refund is making a huge mistake. If you want to go after a refund and still keep the dog especially if the breeder has accepted fault and offered you a refund if you do return the dog you have a fairly reasonable chance of having that decision awarded to you. If you want to keep the dog and go after payments for vet bills incurred you also have a fairly reasonable chance of having that awarded to you as well.The dept of fair trading or a commercial lawyer will advise you on what your rights are and what you can do about that part of it all. Naturally this will be impacted by what was given to you as a written,verbal or implied warranty which was not contradicted at time of sale. You dont need to go to a current affair a legal person will listen to your story and tell you whether you are able to demand payments. In days gone by people sold puppies and people bought them knowing it was a live animal and things could go wrong .In some breeds it was accepted that they had a greater risk of some problems than other breeds. People didnt expect the breeder to pay past a short time frame - 10 days if something turned up. Registered breeders have marketed themselves as superior. They talk about how they test and chant about how buying a puppy from them is a better option because their dogs are healthier so some people who come to them and purchase from them believe that and unless the breeder points out that this is not necessarily true this is an implied warranty and as a result if something goes wrong the breeder must compensate because its why the buyer came to them and bought their product. Right now registered breeders should work out they are not immune to the federal consumer laws and become more aware of their marketing and how they promote their product and themselves. They should have changed their contracts to include the ability for the buyer and the buyers vet to examine the dog before ownership is transferred rather than when they take possession .They should be explaining about the potential problems the breed has and the species has being very clear that as it is a living animal that any ideas the buyer has that something wont happen that it might. They should leave no doubt for someone who is looking at a claim as to what it was the buyer thought they were getting and that they understood there was no implied warranty past a certain time frame. In this case if the contract covered this and the buyer had taken the pup to the vet within a 72 hour time frame after taking possession as they would have agreed to do for an inspection by their vet BOAS would have been diagnosed before the owner took legal ownership, the vet would have declared the dog fit or unfit for sale and the buyer would know exactly what they were taking ownership of on that day and the story would have been different . If the dog was not diagnosed with BOAS at that first vet visit then the breeder should be explaining that they have no control over what happens past that point - because they don't. The other is an ethical issue and for a different topic.

Herbs absolutely do work for dogs - but some herbs that are good for people are not so good for dogs - research first and take note of dosages and how to prepare them depending on what they are.

The short answer is yes if there are known problems in the breed and testing is available then the tests should be mandatory. But its not that simple

Im really sorry to hear you are having such a serious problem with your dog but its difficult to give an opinion or offer any solution without knowing what the details are that you have missed out . What is the condition he was diagnosed with for example so we can understand if this was something the breeder should be held accountable for .Did you have insurance on the dog?

If we had an excess of puppies and dogs then these sort of prices couldn't be asked.

Supply and demand - why not ? If they cant get that price they can go down - pretty hard to go up.

GEEZ

Lots of essential oils are toxic to dogs and humans if they are used undiluted. Its why when you have a massage oil for example it has only 3% essential oil in it and 97% is blended with various vegetable oils. If dogs have neat Tea tree oil applied or if they eat the oil there could be a problem but the amount you have in shampoo enables the oils to provide the beneficial results of the application in the correct dosages. Its why tea tree oil and other herbs and oils are able to be used and have great beneficial results for thousands of years but neat oils are always used with caution and it is the neat oils there are various warnings on. Always remember that natural products are not always necessarily safe just as for other chemicals and dosages and measurements are important. Be sure to follow relevant directions on the bottles.

O.K. Missed that bit.

Would appear it may have been other reason for action - may still be totally unaware of what has been said here

Pretty sure if they are a active board member and knew what was being said about them they would have asked for it to be removed if they weren't prepared to respond and defend themselves. Are you sure they have seen this ?

I don't have a clue who the breeder is but clearly others here do. They have not had the opportunity to defend themselves and have been judged. Just don't like the feel of it - that's all.

Of course not So why try and justify this situation as being acceptable? Well I wasnt trying to justify this situation - how can anyone say anything about THIS breeder in THIS situation when you only hear one side. You can assume what the OP thinks is happening is happening but experience tells me there may be another explanation. I was trying to say that some of the judgements made generically of any breeder who may be slow with papers are not always justified. That's all.

I definitely agree its not O.K. to ignore the puppy buyer - ever- my comments were directed at some of the other comments made re slow paper shuffle.

Of course not

It is actually cheaper to register before three months than after, might be incentive for some............. Yep it goes up by miles after 12 months.

Right now - I had a litter of puppies chipped 10 days ago .When I was sending them home and went to scan them two didnt have chips scanning. The person collecting the pup was already almost here after driving 6 hours to pick it up .So I sent the pup home with two chip papers and told her that I would take my pup to the vet next morning , find out what chip number it was so she would know what her's was - assuming it was a problem with my scanner . Both of us took the pups to the vet neither had a chip - vet cant explain why and I saw them go in and they scanned immediately after they went in .So the original two chip numbers have had to be cancelled via me filling in a stat dec to say what happened with the council. Now I have requested the new owner send me the new chip number via an email a day and Ive left a message on her phone so I can put it on the rego papers - no answer. I'm not worried and know she will get to me in the next day or two [i hope ] but in the mean time Im on hold with putting in the rego papers with the CC. If she happens to not bother - its a problem for everyone because it holds up the entire process. Then Im a bad breeder while Im sorting out plan B.

You have to register a whole litter at one time and each state is different .NSW for example wont allow the pup to be registered in any name but the breeder's and its up to the new owner to transfer the name of the pup over if they want to. The breeder receives the papers and has to post them onto the new owner Queeensland the puppies are registered straight into the new owners name and the registry posts them to the new owner .Some states have a 6 months time frame - which I believe NSW has just been changed to and others have 18 months. You cant register them until they are chipped either. So I used to be able to have the papers back before the pups went home and hand them over with the pups - cant do that now because the chip dont go in until a week before they leave here. Sometimes I allow people to name their puppies so I wait until all are sold and all owners have decided on names other times I name them all myself . If I register one on one register and want to change it over when Ive decided whether its good enough to breed it's a paper shuffle and costs money so it makes sense to wait until you are sure of what register and that's pretty hard to do when the pup is young. I agree that the new owner should be made aware of how long the papers may take before they take the pup home - mine sign to say they do. Id prefer to see all papers sorted by 3 months of age but sometimes some breeders take their time for a variety of reasons doesnt automatically make em a bad breeder.

If I have one that is going to be shown the papers are done in double quick time no matter what ,new owners don't get to name them and any changes have to be paid for but none of the people Ive ever heard concerned about papers has ever been waiting to show them.

Agreed - some breeders wait until all puppies are sold or until they make a decision on which registry one or more puppies will be placed on. Hell sometimes they have other issues to deal with that take priority - like a death in the family a flood a bushfire , marriage breakup etc. Sometimes I get the papers back from Dogs NSW and send them off and they come back to me because the puppy buyer has moved or I have the wrong address recorded . Give the breeder the benefit of the doubt just because some or even most do it one way doesn't mean there is something terrible if someone else does it differently. Some states have different requirements for this as well. My contract says that papers can take up to one year though most are done within about 6 weeks in case I hit a hiccup so there is no one worrying Im doing something I shouldn't .