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WoofnHoof

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Everything posted by WoofnHoof

  1. sorry bit OT but I found some more interesting links on the origin of dog breeds: From wolf to dog: visible phenotypical diversity of dog breeds Unequal contribution of sexes in the origin of dog breeds
  2. Question from me! Did he (or do you know of anyone) believe that some breeds of dogs evolved from different species of wolves? Does he take into account that some breeds (like mine) have probably been crossed with wolves fairly recently. I remember reading a study a while ago on ancient dog breeds, they worked out which dogs could be considered ancient by how much of their DNA matches wolves. Naturally, sibes were very, very high. They said this could be because sibes were recently crossed with wolves. Couldn't this mean that some breeds of dogs will have more natural wolf behaviours than others? Also, I'm sure you've seen the movie 8 below. That was based on a true story, the dogs all stayed together. Doesn't this in some way prove that dogs can and do form packs? *I might have my movie names muddled up, I mean the one where they leave the dogs behind. I don't think that the reason for the similarities between wolves and sibes is due to a recent crossing but more due to the fact that they haven't lost as many wolf traits as other breeds have. As far as other species of wolf being involved, as far as I am aware it is the gray wolf which shares it's DNA with dogs and is able to interbreed, hence why dogs are now classified as the species canis lupus (as are gray wolves). I am quite happy to agree with domestic dogs evolving from the one species of wolf as there has been plenty of time for the morphology to change as significantly as it has. When you introduce a strong selector like selective breeding then you get vast changes within a very short spaces of time. The only reason dogs haven't changed as significantly in recent times is due to people breeding to one type rather than experimenting agressively as would have been the case in times past. You only have to look at crossbreeds to get an idea of the range of morphologies that can be exhibited. It was suggested in the study that I refered to in my other post that breeds which have been bred back to the 'wolfish' appearance did not in turn bring back some all of the wolf behaviours, so your thinking is consistent with what was observed. Here is the link to the abstract, I will keep looking for the full text I have it so it must have been available free somewhere. Paedomorphosis affects agonistic visual signals of domestic dogs Authors: GOODWIN D.; BRADSHAW J.W.S.; WICKENS S.M. Source: Animal Behaviour, Volume 53, Number 2, February 1997 , pp. 297-304(08) Publisher: Academic Press Link It's a really interesting study I would like to see one done on all breeds rather than just 10, it would be very interesting. As it is this paper made me understand why sometimes my chi and sibe get their wires crossed! edit: stuffed up my quotes edit 2: Found the full text here
  3. Interesting topic kelpie-i :D LM, you may be missing the point YES your dogs are "hunting"....chasing, catching and eating. But they are doing so purely for the thrill and reward value, not for survival purposes. If your dog's were left on their own, they would not choose to hunt over scavenging to survive as this is too costly energy wise. It is not in their genes to hunt to survive....it is in their genes to display hunting motor patterns. The thrill and the reward are simply the motivators for survival behaviours in my opinion, I don't think of them as seperate things at all. A hunting behaviour can be quite complex (such as herding behaviours) and I don't think can be classified as a hard-wired behaviour, even though many people do classify it as such. I think that the expression of complex behaviours has to be the result of a combination of hard-wired 'triggers' and a motivator for the animal to learn the behaviour, as in 'if I do this it makes me feel good/not bad' sort of thing. This is where I tend to disagree with current thinking about hard-wired behaviours, yes there are some behaviours in which the animal is on 'auto-pilot', however other behaviours require the input and processing of information so the animal can determine which behaviour and how much of it should be applied to obtain the desired result. Hence the use of an emotional motivator in order to allow the animal to satisfy all of it's needs without having to constantly undertake trial-and-error learning. The genetic 'trigger' for the behaviour might be there but to hard-wire all of those complex behaviours for every situation seems like a huge waste of resources to me. Possibly not relevant but I do think that remnants of those behaviours still exist in modern dogs, many think that the breeding out of some of those behaviours are also the result in morphological changes, since sibes retain many wolf behaviours and there is a paper suggesting that the loss of these behaviours correlates with the loss of the wolf-like appearance. If anyone is interested in seeing it let me know I will try to find it. I also think that the resemblance between dogs and other canids such as coyotes is probably a result of convergent evolution rather than an ancestral relationship. (convergent evolution = when two species develop similar traits but evolved seperately - like flying foxes and traditional bats, or echidnas and spiny anteaters). Regarding the social aspect, one of the key factors in domestication is the presence of some kind of social structure, whether the structure was loosely organised in early dogs I don't know but it is believed that as social animals ourselves we have had a much better success rate with animals which form social groups in terms of domesticating. The exception of course is cats but whether they are in fact domesticated is still under debate lol! Certainly they will survive virtually unchanged with or without our help. I'm glad he qualified his survival statement by adding "in it's present form", it's fairly obvious that dogs have been altered to survive in our world and will no doubt have to alter to survive in a world without us (like any domestic animal really). Whether or not they do will depend entirely on the environment in which they find themselves and whether or not there is sufficient genetic variation to allow for survival in that new environment.
  4. I'd be interested to know more about the nutritonal aspects of kibble, my job is analysing stock feed at the moment and primarily the digestibility of various formulations.
  5. Ask Huski, she is the expert on sibe recall Speaking for myself my guy will bolt and while he was very very good in early training as he matured he got more difficult to motivate, everything else is more interesting than whatever I am trying to get him to come back for
  6. Sibes can be fussy eaters. Mine is pretty meh about kibble, the only thing he will eat consistently is good raw meat and chicken necks. Mine also thinks dog rolls and my dog is great but those are usually just for when I run out of the other stuff.
  7. There was something in new scientist recently about a guy who reckons some mutations are the result of a relaxation of selection pressures, in fact he thinks that humans are just a mutant ape that didn't result from any specific selection. So perhaps the stronger vemon is linked to a beneficial gene and therefore 'hitched a ride' so to speak, or just wasn't detrimental so no reason for it to be selected out. Back to topic it's not looking great for these poor pups, unfortunately a lot of people put money before the welfare of the animal, that may not be the case in this instance but it's common unfortunately.
  8. Do you know if there is any place near Ipswich (QLD) that sells it? That was the beauty of the Bush's stuff, so easy to get as all Coles stores stock it. ETA just saw that you are from NSW sorry.
  9. I'm really annoyed because my dogs loved the Bush's raw meat stuff (they still do) before it had no preservatives or anything in it, now it's got them and I don't know why, it's only extended the shelf life by about a month and I buy heaps and freeze it anyway so I don't see why they've done it. Maybe for wider distribution but they could have kept at least a couple of ranges without preservatives. Since it's raw is it still better than the cooked stuff? The 4 Legs cooked brand has no preservatives, as well as the Scotty's dog rolls but my dogs don't like them as much whereas they scoff the Bush's stuff no worries.
  10. It is interesting and relevant because if you are willing to accept the idea that your dog does something specifically to please you, then you must also accept the idea that your dog does something specifically to annoy you, you can't really have one idea without the other. The evolutionary advantage to being 'biddable' is that a dog which learns rapidly gets rewarded more readily and is more successful than the less biddable types, of course there are occasions when biddability is more of a hindrance than a help, like in the case of sibes when their sled driver is heading them straight towards a crevasse if they were more biddable they would follow his direction more readily and end up getting selected out of the gene pool in a hurry! A biddable dog is able to pay attention to the rewards and the human behaviours which are associated with those rewards, pats (akin to grooming behaviours), food or simply the abscence of a correction.
  11. My chi is a short coat and he rarely pants unless it's really hot, my understanding is that they are a desert dog and they are pretty well adapted to cope with heat. I wouldn't worry about a bit of panting, just make sure he has water and isn't distressed and he should be fine.
  12. Shouldn't be too often, they are pretty clean dogs, I don't think mine has had a bath since last summer
  13. My two had their first heartworm treatment when I moved to Brissie, they are 5 and 2 and never had it before as we were up in Toowoomba the vet said they didn't have a heartworm problem there (too cold) although a friends' neighbour had a dog die from it up there so who knows I got the injection, I didn't get it with their other shots though which is lucky becuase I heard afterwards that they can get a bit crook if they have all at once. For flea stuff mine get Advantage in summer and nothing in winter. I don't have a problem with using these things as needed, the worst health problem my dog has had was definetly nothing to do with chemicals that's for sure!
  14. Off topic a bit but there is a website database in the US that has just been started putting up the contact details of horse breeders who are willing to take back horses they have bred if they end up in rescue or at sales, I wonder if a similar thing could be done with dogs here? I know most reputable breeders will take them back but maybe a database that pounds and rescues can easily access contact details could be put in place?
  15. Lol my sibe howls when my chi is really yapping up a frenzy it's quite funny he sounds like a dying cat! I think it's hilarious but lucky I don't live too close to other people they probably wouldn't find it as funny, my neighbours told me once their son ran over to my place in a panic thinking someone had been injured only to find the dogs wagging their tails! :rolleyes:
  16. Another dog! You don't need heaps of room just heaps of interaction
  17. My dog wasn't put right out for his ultrasound, just sedated heavily, the vets are much more cautious with drugs if liver disease is suspected. An ultrasound should detect a smaller than normal liver but not sure about the other stuff, I think they use a dye to illuminate the blood vessels, I know the vessels showed up as a different colour on the ultrasound here in brissy but I wasn't there for the one they did in sydney. If your girl has that condition I would think that it would produce similar symptoms anyway? I'm not sure, does she change her behaviour after a high protein meal or slow to recover from anaesthetic? Hard to say without the full run of tests. Do the ALT levels coincide with the levels of protien in her diet? When my dog got sick at 6 months he had been put onto a very high protein (23%) food and that is what really showed up the symptoms, the other symptoms he had were in hindsight classic shunt but at the time were just passed off as sensitive tummy issues. If you go to Sydney Uni try to get Geraldine Hunt she is the expert on these things, I found them all to be really great though Hope they get some answers for you and your girl, hope it's easily managed too, I wouldn't wish a shunt on anyone that's for sure! ETA sorry I missed your coat question, my sibes coat was quite sparse as a puppy, the healthier he got the better and thicker his coat got, now it's everywhere lol!
  18. I don't know anything about MVD sorry. The ultrasound we got was really good and showed the shunt really clearly (even I could see it lol), they did an even more specific one at the Sydney Uni Vet centre I don't know if you are near there but if you are going to get one done that is the place to do it they are the best . I have heard about dogs living with shunts for ages and not being detected so don't let lack of symptoms be the only reason for not checking it.
  19. When I was researching liver shunts there was a lot about them being more common in maltese than other breeds, it might be worth just getting an ultrasound done it's probably cheaper than monthly blood tests. From memory the blood tests I had to do were about $150 and the ultrasound was $500. Never heard of a link between ivermectin and liver problems though.
  20. When he was allowed in the paddock (not dog safe fencing) he was terrified of the horses, much smarter than my chi who DOES chase the horses lol. Now that he is bigger if they were running he would chase them I think, when we walk past a cow paddock he is always very interested in them. When he is on lead near the horses he is still a bit unsure of them but then he was the same with cats until one ran in front of him and prey drive kicked in. Not really unusual - beagles are known for being evil but I found her very different to my Sibe when it comes to training. There are some similarities though: they are both stubborn, head strong and VERY strong willed! The other thing I found with Mish was he changed a lot once he got to about two years of age. He calmed down a lot and focused easier. We have had training difficulties as he had bad experiences with other dogs when he was younger and I have had to deal with him being dog aggressive/dominant. That is a real challenge and something that needs constant management. However, he is so happy to come out with me and have new experiences and he does like to do new and exciting things. I have found if I make training exciting and I am full of energy he works so much better - I take high value treats like roast chicken and a squeaky toy or ball to reward him with. He doesn't like tug toys as much as my beagle does, so instead I rev him up by running with and changing direction suddenly and getting him excited. As I have said before the benefit of training a stubborn or strong willed breed like a Sibe is that it is SO very rewarding when you make progress. I personally find biddable "easier" breeds boring.... I'd take a tricky dog any day!! That's interesting, mine has just gone two so I wonder if he will improve. Finding something to motivate him enough is the real problem, I'm not going with severe correction as that is what I ended up doing when trying to get him to stop chasing, nicking off etc and it just ended up being a constant battle and I'm not really interested in fighting such strong instincts with negative reinforcement all the time. I would like to get into sledding with mine though, and he absolutely loves lure coursing, some people have asked if it's made him chase things more but realistically he used to chase anything that looked like prey well before we went lure coursing.
  21. The miracle would be affording it Hope someone with a feral chi goes and can pass on their notes
  22. The only easily trainable dogs I've come across are borders, they are just tuned into their person the whole time! When I got my sibe I had lovely dreams of training him to follow the horse out riding, and spent a lot of time taking him for walks with the aim of off-lead obedience, or at least recall. Didn't work. After chasing him over two hills after he took off after some roos I gave up, and he did two levels of puppy school and was the standout best of them all! I haven't had a chance to get back to dog obedience after his big op but I can pretty safely say that I would never get any real reliable recall with him. When he goes it's like he can't hear you, he is just so focussed on anything, sometimes if you can get him before his attention is fully on whatever it is then you can get him to come back but miss that moment and he will be gone. I will never risk him in an unfenced area these days. He's pretty good onlead apart from some lunging and carrying on when he first meets new dogs :D My take on it is that sibes were bred to be obedient ON-LEAD and therefore off-lead obedience was never a requirement because when not in runners they are staked out generally. I dare say in the early days when they were let off to fend for themselves the ones that came back and allowed themselves to be harnessed back up were the ones that continued the breed. They are extremely intelligent dogs but also extremely independent. Would be nice to have an obedient off lead sibe but you can't have everything :D
  23. I think it lasts a fair while because it's cooked and because rolls are cooked in the casing (I used to work at a pork factory) there is no post-cook handling so the shelf life is longer. Once the package is opened it will go off pretty quick. There may be a natural preservative in it but I'm not sure, there are probably some binding products in it as well. When my boy was sick the only thing he would eat was the VIP puppy rolls, now sometimes they will get the Scotty's if I can't get hold of fresh meat they seem to like it.
  24. Could it be something with the liver? I don't know much about health problems but I learned a lot about the liver when my dog had a liver problem he was difficult to keep weight on, and developed severe neurological problems as a result of toxins in the brain. Did your vet do a liver function test? Has anything happened recently that may have contributed?
  25. I use it too and my dogs love it and they usually don't get fussed about anything They also get 4 legs a bit too.
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