WoofnHoof

Well I finally joined the WSS club! Took a while lol My girl Ellie is from a ANKC breeder in Qld and she is just over 5 months old. Observations so far: Velcro dog to the max! Do not get a Swiss if you value your alone time in the dunny, if she can’t come in with you she will lay down outside the door waiting for you to come out. Loud! She has discovered her big girl voice and it’s set off the decibel warning on my smartwatch so look out for accelerated hearing loss lol! So strange after having the husky who was talkative but hardly ever actually barked. Active! My husky was quite sick as a pup (liver shunt) so I didn’t get to really experience the full-on adolescent stages and most of my little dogs have been adult rescues so this girl is full of beans in comparison. No sleeping in. Ever. Luckily I have paddocks full of rabbits here to burn off some puppy energy. Great to take for walks although can’t seem to go in a straight line (that’s a win for the husky at least he would go straight lol!). Grubby! OMG after having clean freak husky who didn’t even like to go outside if the grass was a bit wet and cleaned himself obsessively like a cat, this girl absolutely loves to be filthy! Mud, dead things, pretty much anything she can get into that will make her dirty is her goal, bonus points if she can find it straight after a wash :D Overall thoughts: Stunning dog, loads of fun, loads of work (at the youngster stage anyway) but I wouldn’t have it any other way

It’s such a great concept and certainly has loads of scope for expansion and refinement. There have been a number of studies now looking at the various cues that dogs use to communicate with us, such as pointing behaviour and so on. There have been a couple of studies where they trained horses to use boards with symbols on them to indicate whether they wanted to wear a rug or not, so now that people are learning how to train animals more effectively using these tools the potential is massive in gaining insight into how they think. Of course humans tend to extrapolate to match our own inner monologue which may not be accurate but certainly simple concepts should be well within reach, it’s just refining the methodology IMO. I would think there are cheaper options as the boards were originally modelled off the commonly used assistive technology used to help disabled people communicate, so there may be options that are less expensive and still usable out there?

I agree many of us have crosses and dogs of unknown breeding and love them just as much. I don't think it necessarily implies a bias when we state that a cross will likely not be ideal in this situation, just the simple fact of predictability of traits. Given that many breeders of crosses like to promote those crosses as "best of both worlds" it would be remiss to fail to point out the genetic gambling aspect. If the OP were an experienced owner with heaps of latitude in their situation and willingness to accommodate a variety of behavioural and physiological traits then I think people would direct them to purebreds *and* rescues (which are often crosses). It's not promoting crosses because directing people to a cross in rescue is not encouraging or promoting the breeding of them. Interested to hear thoughts on this though as it's an interesting point!

It's a very expensive exercise for sure! I assume your little one will have an extra hepatic shunt which has a much higher success rate than intra. Best of luck for the surgery!

That's really sad isn't it? I know some horse breeders prefer to restrict what is being bred from their lines if they have spent a lot of money importing sires etc but it's only in very niche markets IME. In this day and age it's easy enough to import whatever breeding you want so it's only restricting a small subset of small scale breeders. Most are ecstatic to see progeny doing well, representing the breed and the lines. We aren't playing for sheep stations out there.

I find it ridiculous personally. If someone wants to have a crack at showing why shouldn't they? If the dog isn't fabulous it won't blow anyone away but they might have a nice day out. If the animals are such poor quality that breeders are embarrassed by them then I would question the quality of their breeding in general. Omitting the few with glaring faults there really shouldn't be anything stopping most people going to the odd dog show, they aren't taking it to crufts for crying out loud. What people consider show quality can vary greatly anyway, realistically if the dog meets the standard it should be of sufficient quality to represent its breed and whether it wins is up to the judge. I remember years ago a similar discussion here with a breeder stating "I don't want to see my shit in the ring". I've only known a few breeders in the horse world who won't register certain progeny and they are the *least* ethical for several reasons. Everyone else is quite happy to see their animals out and about. They are ambassadors for their breed and for the stud even if they aren't perfect according to a show judge. Anyone who shows knows you take take the same animal to one judge and have it win everything and another judge won't even give it a look so it's not the end of the world if it doesn't win. Despite this showing can be great for teaching animals manners and patience, educating owners and spectators about breeds and conformation, socialising dog and human (as long as your fellow showies aren't wankers!) and just generally getting out and about. The gatekeepers need to chill out IMO. Where is the harm in taking pride in the animals you have produced whether they are some arbitrary definition of "show quality" or not? As the OP says, anyone who is going to breed outside of the regs will ignore LR and so it's really just ANKC vs ANKC breeders shooting themselves in the foot.

First thing to think about is the working origin of the breed. Those breeds have been developed over centuries for herding, chasing sheep and cattle all day every day. Work that is both mentally and physically stimulating. That is why they are popular for dog sports which are very high energy and require loads of training. Think about a worst case scenario that could happen. Kids get bored or move out. Work gets busy. It rains for weeks and no one wants to take the dog out for a long walk. Do you still want the dog if the things you hope for don't eventuate? If so what do you see the dog doing while you are working and the kids are absent? If it's purely companionship there are several more suitable breeds who will be happy with short walks and plenty of attention at home. Re shedding most dogs will shed you just have to deal with that but you can minimise it with short coated breeds like danes and greyhounds. Alternatively you can go with a low shedding breed but it will need regular clipping. Barking can be influenced by breed, again think about the history and whether a dog barks as part of its job, most herders do. The rest is largely behavioural and individual, dogs bark for various reasons, sometimes to alert (if you are in a busy area with lots of people going past this might be important) sometimes because they are bored, sometimes they just like the sound of their own voice. A good breeder will help guide you as far as their breed goes as they know them best. Crosses are the least predictable option, as said above it is generally not recommended for people who have a specific set of requirements, you want predictable traits. If you are keen on rescue a greyhound could be an option to explore via a reputable group who performs temperament testing and suitable vetting.

I'm sure some whippet owners will be along soon to give you their experiences. In the meantime you will find some good info in the breed101 section and there is also a breed subforum for general chat for owners and breeders. Your best bet is to look up some breeders on the main page and have a chat to them about whether the breed will be suitable for your situation

Hieneger are the best IMO.

Great to hear you have had some success with your little guy! You are doing well keep up the training and he will only improve

A husky will not guard you nor will they curl up on the couch with you (unless you keep your internal house temperature below 0 degrees C). They are independent and extremely challenging for first time dog owners. Not to mention they shed a LOT of hair, they cannot be offlead and while they are smart and trainable that doesn't mean they are biddable, they do what suits them not you. When looking at breeds think about their working origins. Huskies were bred to pull sleds in the harshest of conditions. They want to run and if they are off lead they will run and run and never come back, trust me on this. They are bred to seek very little direction from their human, their job was to listen to go, stop and turn. Everything else was up to them, so they do not seek guidance nor permission from their owners. Compare this trait to other breeds such as herding dogs, they will often check with their human and look to them for direction. Look at the breeds that are often doing well in obedience, an obedient husky is rare. Guarding is hit and miss in non-guardian breeds, you need to speak to individual breeders they can tell you if their dogs are likely to have some guarding capability. Again no husky will guard you, some individuals can be a little protective but they are notoriously friendly to strangers. A husky also needs to be engaged, if they are not mentally and physically stimulated they will find ways to occupy themselves that you may not like. This can include chewing up everything, stealing stuff (I lost a wallet for months because the dog stole it), digging, escaping etc. You don't want to let a smart dog get bored or restless. Please keep researching before you decide, it seems highly unlikely to me that a husky will fit your needs. Don't be swayed by their looks there are many huskies in pounds and rescues because they are not suited for many lifestyles. Talk to breeders of ridgebacks and shepherds, they will be able to help you decide whether these breeds may be more suitable for you. Breeder contact details are on the DOL breeds pages, also checkout the Breeds 101 forum to get some more information on the breeds you are interested in. Best of luck in your search!

My boy has had this for some years. Initially when I asked the vet in Qld they didn't know. When I moved to NSW I got it looked at again and we got a diagnosis. He went on steroids initially then moved to an immune suppressant drug (imuran) and he has been on it for about 2-3 years now and it has helped a lot. His nose is a bit damaged from being untreated. Put him on the immune suppressant as he was starting to get severe gum inflammation as well, and he has improved out of sight. Nose and gums improved and nails are not as brittle. Doesn't seem to have had much in the way of side effects. Not sure about long term effects but my boy is quite old so it's negligible.

Yes it's funny isn't it? The OP can evidently sense that papers are worth *something* (which is why they are thinking more $ per pup) but still can't work out WHY.

I suspect the nuances of registration and regulatory bodies and genetic verification etc are lost on the OP who is simply looking to make some $.

Thanks all, happy for every day we get Some days are better than others but usually he is way ahead of me and waiting for me to hurry up!

I can't believe it's been more than a year since I started this thread and the old boy is still ticking along! So happy with him, just a short clip since my internet is taking ages to upload anything. He is about the same gait-wise but he is still pretty happy and keen to go for walks so that is the main thing. I tried to convince him to let me pull him along in a cart but that was not happening. Likewise my attempt to convince him to wear boots was a battle that I am sad to say I did not win, you would think I was trying to cut his feet off the way he carried on and they came straight off so that was a write off. He had an acupuncture session a while ago which seemed to help so hoping to line that up again. He is still on the neurontin and synovan but we have changed the anti-inflammatory to previcox which seems to agree with him. So all in all I am pretty happy with how he is going, I never would have thought he would still be relatively mobile at this age so will take each day as it comes and if he makes it to 15 (early Sept) I will be stoked. As long as he is still waiting at the door ready for a walk every morning and evening and happy to go I will take that as a sign that he is still happy in himself.

The main issue with breeding animals that have been registered with *other* registers is that there is no way to verify the pedigree is a true record of lineage. The reason a pedigree has inherent value is because it verifies that a dog is what the breeder/seller says it is. If another registry will register a dog that isn't verified then the pedigree is virtually meaningless. If another register is not rigorous with their parentage verification and record keeping then buyers don't really know what they are buying. As a result the inherent value of papers is not only compromised for that registry, but people begin to think ALL papers are meaningless except for showing. The reason a verified lineage is important is because breeding will often throw you curve balls at the best of times. The genetics of the animal in front of you is largely hidden, you see physiology and behaviour in the one dog but genetics is a complex science, and you can't always know what will pop up in the subsequent generations. The experienced breeders, the "gatekeepers" some might say, have often spent many years poring over pedigrees, researching lines, observing dogs and their progeny, and their progeny, and so on. You can only make sense of that information with verified pedigrees. Now, not all ANKC breeders are ethical, but they are much more likely to understand the importance of those lines and mutligenerational implications of breeding than members of registries which do not have such strict regulation. Their opinion, like the pedigree itself, carries weight due to the depth of knowledge and experience implicit. That is why most will not sell a dog on mains to someone they don't know well, the rise of puppy farming and indiscriminate breeding has made them wary. If you put your heart and soul into producing a healthy animal, sound in mind and body then see someone breed it with a dog that is the opposite, just for the $, then it is no wonder this situation has occurred. So while to most people, these protectionist restrictions seem excessive, it is important to understand the reasons why. In some cases it is to protect the lines, the animals they have spent much of their lives developing. It is also to protect the integrity of breeds. As much as everyone loves their cross-bred pets, the first thing many people do is ask what breeds might be in it. And the reason these alternative registries exist is because people still believe a pedigree has inherent value in telling you what that animal is. Thus, the integrity of breeds and pedigrees *should* be protected.

There are some breeds where shunts are more common (yorkies for example) and some breeders are starting to run tests on pups prior to homing. While it is likely in those breeds to have a hereditary component, In most instances it is thought to occur spontaneously, I have a husky who had one. Legally there are currently no requirements to test for this condition, there is no genetic test it is a matter of blood testing when pups are old enough. The only way you would have any legal recourse is if you had evidence that the breeder knew the pup was sick, or that they knowingly bred from lines which have produced pups with shunts previously. Either way the most you can hope for would be a refund of the purchase price, it may help towards the cost of the surgery but may cause further stress to you and your family so you need to weigh it up. All the best for your pup's surgery, and check out this facebook group if you haven't already, lots of help and support there https://www.facebook.com/groups/239254069596394/?ref=share

I may be able to get the full text I'll have a look when I'm back on the computer. Don't be put off by paywalls though, just email the authors or message them on researchgate and most likely they will send you the full text, they don't get any $ from paywalls. Individual studies are rarely likely to provide a definitive answer, they just add to the existing body of knowledge to help inform. Sometimes media grabs leave out all the caveats that the scientists discuss in the paper.

@SarasMum what a great age for your girl! My Sonny is almost 14yo now and he has been very fussy as he's gotten older. I have to rotate because he goes off stuff if he has it too many days in a row. He likes to have a range of options although he has pretty consistently hated the barf patties lol! Such an adventure with the oldies

The thing I find most crazy about the anti-purebreed mentality in the wider community is that even owners of heinz 57 dogs want to know what breeds are in their dog. They don't follow that thought to it's logical conclusion: if they want to know what's in it it's because they want an idea of what traits make the dog what it is. Those traits that were refined by selective breeding. It's a cognitive dissonance that plays out continually, the whole point of purpose breeding is to know the traits and know what to expect. At some level people who are anti-breeder/anti-purebred know this but don't follow that once lines are diluted that degree of predictability becomes smaller and smaller. I know people with a husky x bc, at an intellectual level one could assume that most educated people know genetics is complex, it's not like mixing drinks. But they still expect something to look like a husky and behave like a BC, and get all kinds of frustrated when it shows husky behaviours. It's lazy thinking played out in real time.

Absolutely it is a factor in considering whether to breed, everyone has their own reasons for breeding. I think the OP is really talking to those who limit their programs on the basis of the perception of "overbreeding" which has pervaded both the dog world and the wider public.

Totally agree with this post. I think pure breds have an image problem that has been exploited by cross breeders and byb. The pure breed community is too divided to present a united and clear alternative narrative to combat the inbred and elitist perception. As someone who is not an active part of the dog world, I see exactly 0 information outside of very specific internet searches and DOL. No info at the vets, pet stores etc about purebred dogs and breeders. Living in a regional rural area there is even less opportunity to find out more, no show displays or field days, I couldn't tell you if there were any ANKC breeders in my area for any breed. Maybe if I was in a dog sport or show club I might see something but as the average dog owner the purebred world may as well be on another planet. Simple things like printing out fact sheets and having them in a stand at the local vet and pet store would be a low cost high impact opportunity for the ANKC to promote pure bred dogs and local clubs and breeders. The latest trend for presentation posters is to create a QR code so people can scan it and it opens a page with more info. Again very cheap and easy to implement, just needs a coordinated effort to get them out and visible outside of these closed pure breed spaces. Once upon a time the pet store used to have little books you could buy, one for each breed with pics, info about the history, standard, health etc, those were great although a more expensive option and rare breeds were often harder to find so I think fact sheets are a more practical option for sure. Definitely the wait times are also an issue, I have been thinking of adding a dog and tossing up whether to go on a wait list but I don't like to stuff people around and a lot can happen in a year. It is tricky you don't want there to be an overproduction but if pure breeders don't meet that need then someone else will.

Thanks for the link that's really interesting! I usually have to get nails done at the vets as he's too wriggly for me to do myself especially now ny back is so bad. You can hear in the video he drags that inside hind, I am guessing it's a nerve problem coming from his back but it's only recently it's become more pronounced.

Bit of an update on Sonny he is going really well so I haven't added any more meds as yet. I might have to get him a new harness as he is starting to leave me behind on walks like he used to! This video is from about halfway into a 3km walk