MissMaddy

That's what I was hoping. I'd love to get one now to bond onto myself, my existing dogs and horses (oh, plus the cats), but am planning on moving in the next 6 months so I think I should wait. I'm buying land with my mum, and am considering running agistmnent, so I'd want to be there before getting a LGD, so it would get used to people coming and going from the start (also so I then know the dog laws and if I need to get a permit as I already have 3 dogs). I assume in this case the dog would become good at discriminating between those coming in with good or bad intentions from the person's body language???

I'm really enjoying this thread! I love learning more about these amazing breeds. I myself plan on one day running my own horse stud, and have plans of having LGDs (I was leaning more towards the Central Asians as I would think any real threat to the horses would need a tough dog to take it on) to protect my mares and foals. I already live on small acreage, and I'm now considering perhaps getting a maremma sometime in the near future to give me an introduction to LGDs, as well as having a dog to just generally protect the family and animals. How do they go accepting new members into the family? eg. a new dog, horse or human? From what's been said here, I would think they'd be ok if given time to accept the new member and realise they are part of the family?? Amazing dogs, can't wait to own one!!! But I would like to make sure I'm in the position to offer it the right sort of home and environment for it's natural instincts.

My 4 year old bitch has had the 6 month implant, as it was recommended (and put in) by Monash vet. She came into season twice in the 2-3 months following it's insertion, then didn't come back in for about 15 months. The lovely vet told me AFTER putting it in, when she first came back in (which is apparently VERY common, although he didn't seem to know it), that he was worried she'd never come back in :rolleyes: . Luckily, she did come back in, and was mated on her first season back in, however reabsorbed. I'll still never know if that was a hangover effect of the implant. I'm not sure I'd use it again in any bitch I wanted to breed. Another specialist GSD repro vet uses it with bitches having trouble getting in whelp, but she puts it in their thigh. The bitches are then mated/inseminated on their first season in within a couple of months, and removes the implant after breeding. My girls' was put between her shoulder blades, so we could never remove it had I of wanted it done (which I did when she was over 12 months with no season).

Ok so we've been back to the vet and definitely nothing in there. She's now on antibiotics at my request due to the risk of pyometra. She's starting to eat again now, not quite back to normal, but she's actually eating most of what I give her and not losing weight, so I guess she's just eating enough for what she needs now. Hopefully we have more luck next time. If not, well I guess it wasn't meant to be.

She's not normally fussy at all, eats just about anything I offer her. She tried to be when she was a puppy, but got over it when she realised nothing else was on offer. It's only the last week and a half that she's become fussy with her food, she just acts not at all hungry. I thought it was due to being in whelp, as a lot of GSD breeders have said their bitches get very fussy around 7-8 weeks, some stop eating almost all together. The vet wasn't at all worried about her not eating, and never mentioned pyo, or the possibility of it. She is so bright, alert and active (she's acting like a puppy again ), no temp, the only thing is she's not eating much.

Sorry, I realised after posting I put the wrong month. Yes, she was mated in January. Her prog tests indicated ovulation on the 14th, she was mated once on the 16th and not interested 2 days later. By the first time, I meant her first ever mating. She was ultrasounded at 4 weeks from ovulation exactly where he saw 2, then x-rayed at 1 day under 8 weeks, then ultrasounded right on 8 weeks (the next day). The second vet was confident there were no pups in there, given the ultrasound and her having no mammary development, but I'm sure stranger things have happened. She is being VERY fussy with food, and is lucky to eat more than a few mouthfuls, so she will lose weight if I don't really encourage the food intake. She will only eat meat at times, sometimes a little Eagle pack or advanced tins. She won't touch sardines, dry food, roast chicken, gravy, the list goes on! The male I used has had a VERY nice litter with a bitch of the same lines, my reason for using him. I will be trying another male at this point, but I guess I worry I won't get anything I want to keep, as I really had my heart set on this male, and I am not as convinced I'll find a local male that is anywhere near as good a match for her. Should I get her checked again? Or should I just see what happens?

We saw 3 of what looked like under developed pups on the x-ray. She was mated the 16th March, and ovulated the 14th March as by her prog tests, so that's why I'm pretty confident of dates. She also has no mammary development, which is the first thing the vet commented on, and since I've stopped worrying about how much she eats is looking not at all pregnant. I know 4 may be a little late, and trust me, it wasn't by choice, but I was not in a position to have puppies around until now. So should I still be treating her as in whelp? Cos I'm trying to treat her as normally as possible to try and get her back to acting normally. She's still being difficult to get food into, so I guess I worry if there was a puppy left in there that it could be disadvantaged if she's not eating enough. I still have the free x-ray Tuesday, should I keep the appointment? I'm quite worried about her having multiple x-rays with the radiation, etc.

Ok, so first question; How do I get my membership here so I can reply to posts as a registered breeder? Second is more a bit of an appeal for knowledge and previous experiences. My GSD bitch is 4 years old and was mated for the first time in January. She was ultrasounded at 4 weeks and in whelp, but only a small number. She was then x-rayed Thursday for numbers, and there was a comment that what we saw on x-ray was not developed enough for her gestation, and may not be live puppies. We saw what looked like 3 puppies, but with not a lot of bone formation. They suggested a repeat x-ray Tuesday free of charge. Not being happy with just not knowing, I got a second opinion from another vet who does more repro work. She looked at her and didn't think she looked in whelp, so did an ultrasound. There were no puppies, so she has obviously reabsorbed what was there. She didn't suggest antibiotics or any other treatment, and said as she's still acting in whelp, she should return to normal after a week, when she would have been due. I'm a little worried now about the risk of pyometra, and wondering if I should call back to ask for antibiotics, or should I monitor her temp and get them if she shows any signs of being unwell? She's very bright and active (in fact, acting like more of a puppy than usual), but is being fussy with food which she started about 1 1/2 weeks ago. Is she likely to have to pass what we saw on x-ray? The second vet said she may still have a phantom labour, so I'm wondering if she'll do this and pass what's left, as there was obviously some bone development if we saw it on x-ray. What are the implications for attempting to breed her again? She suggested weekly prog tests, and supplementation if it starts dropping. I had flown her interstate for this mating, but am a little reluctant to spend this money again if I am not likely to get a litter on the ground. I do plan on mating her at her next season, whenever this happens now, but am considering using a more local dog for this. At this point, I am thinking of trying her again, but if no success of her holding onto a litter, I may just put her back in the show ring and buy another bitch down the track. What's the likelihood we will get her to 9 weeks if she's monitored and possibly put on progesterone from 4 weeks?

She is inside in her crate at night so I'm thinking she should be ok there. During winter I usually have the fire going, so that keeps us all pretty warm at night. Just not sure if she'll get cold during the day. I don't think her breeders worry about anything like coats, and she does leap about like an idiot throughout the day!

I have a rotty girl, and now you guys have me worried that maybe I should be worrying about keeping her warm. She actually walks and jumps around a lot in her run, and trashes (or poos on) any blankets she gets, so I don't have a lot of choice. She doesn't seem to be cold, but then I have pretty much just treated her like the GSDs as well, and haven't noticed her shivering, etc.

The only cattle dogs I've met have been severely understimulated (so they had a bit of misplaced agression because they were bored out of their brains), so not something I'd think for a first timer. Honestly, my male GSD is a lot easier to train and more laid back than most retrievers, so if you really want a GSD, you may be able to find one to suit you. You could look at an older dog so you already know what the dog is like and it has (hopefully) basic training. Pity you're not in Victoria so you could some and meet my guys and those of friends of mine. There are GSDs suitable for first time owners, but you need a breeder who knows their dogs and lines to help you choose the right puppy. Border collies or Aussie shepherds also still say suitable to me. Big enough, and enough energy so you can move onto a GSD next if you're not ready for one yet.

I guess it really depends on exactly how much time and training you intend to put in, and to what level you intend to get to. An Aussie shepherd sounds like a good suggestion, as does a border collie, whoever suggested these. What about the longer coated gun dog breeds? I'm thinking more your setters or pointers, as they are a good size, look intimidating, but the ones I've met seem relatively laid back, happy go lucky and friendly. Personally, I had a GSD as my first dog at 12 I think I was, having never owned a dog. I was very comitted to this girl, and she was a well trained, very well socialised girl (although I forgot people socialising, and she went to boarding kennels where I have no idea what happened, but came back with slight fear agression that was very quickly fixed). I do, however, think I was a bit young, and my parents probably should have waited another couple of years to get me this girl. There are some GSDs that are suitable first dogs, and I have one here. He is Mr laid back (make that Mr Cuddly laid back!), and is just not fussed about other dogs, people, etc, nor is he particularly drivey. I don't actually know if he'd ever see the need to be protective, as he loves everyone, adults and children alike, and they are all meeted with a wiggly body wag. On the other hand, I have a bitch who would not at all be suitable for a first timer. She is higher drive, and just generally a lot more out there. I guess what I'm saying is, depending how much time you actually have to put into the dog (training especially, moreso than walking), and how much knowledge you have around you determines which breed might be right for you. You also need to consider the financial comittment, not just to feeding, but to the ongoing training. Just keep in mind any large breed won't be able to be walked for a solid hour until at least 12 months old though.

Ok, so when I first read this I thought you meant to put the dogs in a bucket of water!!! :nahnah: I was trying to think if you just meant to plonk a wet dog in the crate!!! Oops! ;) yeah well I could put the pugs in a bucket but I would need a pretty big bucket for the rotties. glad I forgot to mention to wring them out then... Yeah, I was wondering how to do that with my GSDs and rotty girl! Guess I might have figured it out if you said to wring them out!

Ok, so when I first read this I thought you meant to put the dogs in a bucket of water!!! I was trying to think if you just meant to plonk a wet dog in the crate!!! :nahnah: Oops!

Have you contacted the breeder you got your current dog from? He/she already knows you, and may either be willing to help you out in getting a puppy from them, or may be able to give you a reference to another breeder who would then be more willing to let you have a pup on main register. I would think going back to the same breeder (assuming you were happy with them and like their dogs still) would show your interest to them, and they already know you so would be more willing to help.

Corvus, she used to use noise if the pups (and older males) at training annoyed her and jumped on her to try and correct them, but if that doesn't work, she really can't be bothered going further and walks away. The rotty bitch started off very submissive to her, but has gotten cocky and knows my girl won't give her a really big correction, so started pushing the boundaries in that typical teenage way. Now that the rotty has been reminded that I'm the boss around here, she's gone back to submissive, and much better behaved (as they all are now) as all rough play is off. Just in case you wanted to see how big and agressive she is! This is her with dogs I house sat with, and the chi was quite fear agressive. She just ignored it until he decided she wasn't so scary and he could play with her (which she LOVED) And her favourite little people, she's asking them to please scratch her tummy.

Ironically, I think our issues began with the GSD being too tollerant with the younger dogs, and the rotty bitch got a bit cocky until she was reminded of who was the boss around here!

To this casual observer, most of the training threads about GSDs seem to go that way. It's rather funny to watch. Kind of like bad reality TV. And it always seems to be the same people too. Guess I should have know better. :D ETA- but there have been some very constructive posts too, so thank you to those who have put them up. I'll look back on them out of all of the non useful ones.

Thank MRB, have just been informed he's now back. Trying to decide if internet consultation, or taking the dogs out of their home environment would be more beneficial.

No, I have not spoken to Steve as yet, as I was told he was away somewhere (possibly on this thread). It was through his supervision (and erny's) that I commenced and continued using the ecollar after consulting my vet. I have, however, had the help of the rotty's breeder who herself is a trainer at the rotty club and was quite actively involved in schutzhund training until the laws changed here (Victoria), so I'm thinking she would count.

Have pm'd you both. Gotta say, this is the first thread I've started with this sort of hoo haa! I only started this as although I've had GSDs for years, I've never had more than 2 dogs together, and I know pack dynamics tend to be a lot more obvious with more than 2 dogs, so I was trying to ensure any subtle signs of trouble were managed early.

Can I put a link? Or do I need to pm you Cosmolo?

Interesting "other" forum. I guess if you want to twist stuff round to your own meaning Abed, go right ahead. And, if you wish to stalk my previous posts and twist what I've said around further, you obviously have nothing better to do. :D My bitch IS NOT fear aggressive (or any type of aggressive), as a lot of dogs would have become following her experiences (and by an adult dog which actually attacked her, more intimidating than just dominated her, but this thread was never about that, it was about managing multiple dogs). Again, I AM NOT worried about her nailing the 8 month old rotty (hardly a little 8 week old pup), I was actually concerned that they were BOTH giving off signs that something bad might occur if things weren't managed correctly. She has NEVER started or been involved in a fight/attack on another dog, nor does she turn tail and take off when she sees other dogs or they challenge her, she merely tries to avoid the confrontation. The most recent time she was lunged at at training by 3 separate DA dogs (the reason I never went back to this particular venue as more than half of the dogs were dog aggressive), she simply looked briefly at them, then focused straight back on me to get on with training. YES, they do have 3 SEPARATE runs, as I don't leave anyone together when I'm not home. And the behaviourists I have used previously were Erny (pro k9) and Steve (k9 pro), I'm sure their methods weren't purely for "border collie" temperaments, and yes they both DO advocate the use of a prong, which I probably would have considered had they been legal here (and possible to use where I trained), however the e collar has been sufficient. She DOES NOT shut down, she has merely been taught self control and that I CAN back up a verbal command without having to give physical corrections. Edited for spelling and grammar.

I'm confused too. Do I know you from another forum Aidan2? :D at the halti comment. Now that you mention it...................... :D

To be honest MissMaddy, your posts are confusing as to what the situation is to receive anything of value other than suggesting a behaviourists consultation???. The 4 year old GSD is insecure around other dogs and you couldn't have her off leash until Ecollar training meaning what, she would run away from other dogs and you couldn't catch her, or she would attack them, but she is apparanty not dog aggressive according to what you have told us, but you are concerned with a fight breaking out between her and the Rotty pup which doesn't really paint a logical picture of the siuation IMHO:confused: Would I be correct in saying, the GSD is ultimately dog aggressive and was the reason for the Ecollar training as she was untrustworthy around other dogs and could lash out from insecurity and given her history, she is causing concern displaying aggressive posturing towards the Rotty pup and you are concerned that she has the potential to nail the pup if things got nasty between them???. No, she is NOT dog aggressive, and in no place did I ever say that. She is insecure when meeting new dogs, and avoids confrontation at any costs (not taking off, but gives off insecure, and sometimes defensive body language). The issues we had with other dogs off lead was her going into prey drive and chasing them, for example if they were chasing a ball. She would not "nail" them, but also would not come back. This obsession became so bad that I couldn't get her focus off the running dog even with a strong correction on lead. I knew no better when she was a puppy than to allow her to obtain drive satisfaction from doing this, but after consulting with behaviourists we corrected this problem with the e collar. Her working level on the dogtra was obtained with no distraction, so there was no aversive stimuli to test her "nerve" with in obtaining this. I have not done e collar training with the younger GSD or the rotty, so I'll be very interested to see what their working level is. The reason I was worried about a fight now is; 1) 2 bitches together, and having heard of so many stories of fights wanted to make sure we never go there 2) they had a small "tiff" and I want to make sure it never goes further, however, I see now that in my tiredness of the end of a long and busy night at work I probably set them up for it. 3) After this tiff, both girls were a bit wary of each other, and did a small amount of posturing very soon after (but it was more that they were unsure of each other than challenging), but this seems to have all stopped and the rotty gone back to her earlier submissive demeanor since toughening the boundaries. I was also picking up on much more subtle changes which seem to have improved as I said. I'm sorry if my posts have been confusing, as I said I've been on night shifts, and most of them were written after having finished work, so I realise some may have not made much sense. Thank you everyone for your great suggestions, they've given me some great ideas to not only manage these dogs in regards to what I was initially worried about, but also managing them so the place is less chaotic with 3 big dogs around. :p