Greytmate

Well I searched for that colour for a long time. And then because of some slight confusion, I ended up with two.

That doesn't look purebred to me There are a few dogs in this topic where I suspect this might be the case. Colour genetics is so fascinating. I love the way my dog's colours were hidden for many generations. All Dun greyhounds have a double cross of a dog called Rocket Jet, a black stud dog that lived in Australia in the 50's. That indicates he was carrying a single dun gene (not expressed) and no other breeding greyhound in the world did at that time. If not for the success of that single dog, the colour would have become completely extinct. But Dun is a recessive, and it can be hidden indefinitely within a breed. Not like Brindle. You never know, in fifty years time Dun may not be a rare colour in greyhounds at all. Just depends on whether any of them are lucky to get the 'good racer' genes along with the Dun ones, and then lucky enough to be prepotent breeders. My two were not that lucky and have been desexed.

Is that pug Albino Anne?

Greyhounds are very placid, gentle and lazy. They can't handle the amount of exercise most breed of dogs need, and too much exercise can be very harmful or fatal to them.

I have two unusual coloured greyhounds. Woody is solid Dun, and Coconut is White and Dun Brindle. Only around one in every three thousand greyhounds born is dun, and it is an allowable colour. Dun isn't so much a colour, but a gene that turns black hair into brown, similar to the dilution gene that gives you a blue dog, but different. I suspect that Woody also might have that dilution gene as well as the Dun gene, as he is such a washed out colour. Coco's brown markings are a rich chocolate brindle stripe over fawn. She is mostly white with brown ticking. Her nose is a plum brown sort of colour. Woody is a dusky taupe, with a slightly darker nose. Both have brown lips, and no black pigment. His coat is a bit like a weim and a bit like a brown kelpie.

Funkytown sounds like a very scary place to live.

Was working in that field till earlier this year. It is a dream. Problem dogs are not very lucrative. People tend to want to be rid of them and many of them are dangerous. Nobody will pay you to rescue a problem dog, and chances are its problems are not easily fixable anyway. But there is nothing to stop you rescuing a problem dog and taking it home yourself and fixing it. But that won't earn you a living.

Three factors I would take into account would be what the fight was over, whether the underdog was happy to back down quickly and whether the aggressor used minimum force and did not continue to go after a retreating dog. There may be other things you could do differently before you would need to permanently separate.

I take my dog to parties, but when it all gets too much, they need to go and lie down on a cushion for a while. I would say that this night club might be ok if it has lots of cushions and they play trance music.

When I vacuum, Coconut and Goldie go to another room. Woody won't move, even though I am trying to vacuum where he is. So I vacuum him on one side, roll him over, vacuum under him, roll him back the other way and vacuum his other side. He doesn't mind, unless his ear gets sucked in, then he squeaks and tries to bite the nozzle.

If you read all the topics you would know as much about what this dog has done as I do.

Unsettledness = nervousness. Nobody can say whether it was extreme or not, because we were not there. There is a distinction, and you do need to be sure of what constitutes aggression if you are rehoming dogs. Aggression is the behaviour. Whether that is biting, nipping, snapping, growling, or various other more subtle unfriendly messages. Fear biting is a type of aggression. There are many types of aggression that can be triggered by different instinctive drives that dogs have. Many of them are natural and normal depending on the dogs genetics and background. But that does not mean aggression is acceptable. Fear biting is a very serious type of aggression. The biting may be a learned behaviour, but the decision to bite in the first place rather than freeze, cower flee or grab softly is very much based on the dog's genetic instinct. All dogs have a threshold of what stresses they will take before reaction. A dog that is stressed to the point of biting when it is being handled by a stranger has a very low threshold to aggression. While this threshold can be heightened with good management, it can also very, very quickly lowered again should different circumstances occur. Some behaviours can be mostly due to environment, and you may have been very successful in training Banshee to behave. But that does not mean that her propensity to show aggression in future is not based on her genetics. Yellowgirl, I am glad that you are doing all those procedures I mentioned to ready the dog and new owner for the adoption. They are essential in my opinion. But they can only work if you have a sound understanding of dog behaviour yourself. Otherwise it is the blind leading the blind. This dog was always going to be nervy and unsettled in a new home, because she is a dog of nervy temperament. No amount of good intention or training is going to change Banshee into a dog that is really suitable to be a children's pet. This is spot on. It is the reason she should not leave you. You understand how to keep her safe and happy. Once you sell her, you lose all control, and anything could happen. It sounds like you are doing this a bit randomly, from a business point of view. While the idea is fantastic and shows what a caring person you are, I am not sure how this all works for you. Is it in the business plan? Do you have any set goals? What safeguards have you put in place to protect your business and your own liability? This is a whole different topic, so I don't want to add too much here, but I do think there are things you will need to do to ensure you don't lose your business should things go terribly wrong with a dog. There either needs to be a very clear separation or you need to professionalise your rescue activities. Working on this will help both your business and the rescues you support.

Just wanted to add more on helping a dog 'transition' to its new home. Part of interviewing the prospective family and finding out their expectations is educating them on exactly what needs to happen to help the dog settle in. All dogs need 'toilet training' to some degree in a new home, even if it is to just find out where the door is, and it is helpful to suggest a procedure for the new family to go through to help settle the dog into its new routine. Information should ideally be backed up with written information and suggestions for the family to read and understand prior to the dog coming home. If a family was to claim a few weeks later that they didn't have time to 'toilet train' the dog, it would be an indication that they were unsuccessful at settling the dog in. It takes a few days to a few weeks of supervision to achieve a reliable toilet routine with a dog, and a commitment needs to be gained from the family before the adoption takes place that there will be a person with time to supervise during this time. Toilet training a normal dog doesn't take up too much time really, it is worth the effort. But if the dog isn't normal and the accidents are due to extreme nervousness, you cannot blame a family for not wanting to deal with that. I wouldn't be inclined to post the information here, but it may be helpful to you to go and ask the family a few more questions, so that you can get feedback. What did they do to try to settle the dog into the routine? Did they feel you had explained adequately what they would need to do? What had they tried so far with toilet training? Did that help at all? in what circumstances did the toilet accidents take place? Take their answers with a grain of salt, but there may be some thing which tells you more about the dog's behaviour or about their qualities as dog owners.

Yellowgirl, as I said previously, I wouldn't have placed that dog in a home. So I will explain why I think that way. The dog was showing extreme nervousness. A nervy dog is not a good candidate for any home with kids. Kids are inherently less predictable and more active in their movements and demeanour, and this can make it hard for a nervy dog to feel settled. The dog's threshold for reaction to threat is so much lower than a dog that is not too nervy or reactive. The dog showed aggression to the point of biting. Nerviness or reactivity can result in a number of reactions in a dog. Some dogs are genetically inclined to have an aggressive reaction, some dogs have learned to use an aggressive reaction. Research has shown that the biggest indicator of a dog's likelihood to bite somebody is a history of having bitten in the past. Research has shown that children are at more risk of being bitten than adults. Research has shown that it is the family dog that is most likely to bite a child. With this knowledge in mind, it becomes an unacceptable risk to place a fear aggressive dog in a home with children. If there ever is a court battle, it will be assumed that you as the seller of a dog with a known dangerous fault should not have made that dog available for sale. Whether it is called an adoption or no cash changes hands is irrelevant. Buyers have a right to buy a product fit for the purpose for which it was sold, so if the dog is being sold as a pet (not a working dog), the seller needs to do all that is reasonably possible to ensure that the dog is a good pet. They are obliged to ask about and document the dog's behaviour history. If there are any dangerous issues, you cannot rehome the dog. As I explained before, having a behaviourist is not the solution. I do not believe that dogs with certain issues resulting from genetic flaws can be cured or fixed, they can only be managed, and that management is a burden. When people express interest in owning a dog, they are unlikely to be aware of what a burden that might be if they get the wrong dog. Too many people believe that serious behaviour problems can be fixed as long as there is a desire to fix them. Most of them cannot. So while Banshee was not a candidate for rehoming, say if she had been a dog of good temperament, there are still things I would have done differently. If I were you, I would be careful to separate the retail outlet you own with any dog that you rehome. Aside from it being perceived as a really random business practice from a business point of view, rescue will be perceived as part of your business by the average person, and this will give them certain expectations that go along with obtaining any type of goods from a retail outlet. This puts you at a disadvantage, as the buyer may behave like a consumer with high expectations of the seller and a lowered sense of personal responsibility. Not the ideal environment to accurately screen a person and find out what they are really like. The toilet problem was not the issue, the commitment to settling the dog and solving the toilet problem was the issue, so the dog was returned. This means that the people's expectations were wrong. That is a communication problem, as it is a rehomer's job to try to ensure that the new owners expectations are a perfect match for what the dog will be in any likely situation. Communication would not have been ideal taking place in a retail environment, or in the presence of the dog being adopted. These things would make it harder for the new adopter to listen carefully or even think rationally about the critical information that is being passed between you, that they are agreeing to take on for the next ten or so years. The photos of the dog standing on the kids lying on the floor is cute, but it is not a situation I would allow to take place, especially with a dog that has bitten in the past. Some will accuse me of being over the top, but just seeing the photo made me think that the people do not have a really good understanding of dog behaviour, although they do obviously love dogs very much.

Yes, I am happy to go into more detail. I missed the original posts, but have read through them now. I think that some decision you made were very good ones, like your original one of keeping Banshee because of issues that she had. Responsible rescue doesn't just go around saving every dog that is homeless. There are so many good dogs needing homes, and so many dogs with problems that make them unsuitable to be pets for most people. Part of being responsible is to know what the difference is. Part of being responsible it to them decide not to put unsuitable dogs in homes as pets. There are so many rescuers here saying what I am saying, it is really common for people to agree to be able to handle or work with dogs with issues, when they really want to adopt a dog. Many people have a desire to 'fix' a neglected dog and while an admirable one, fixing aggression problems in dogs is beyond most people's capabilities. In this particular case, we can assume the motivation was there for this family to agree to deal with the issues, as they had been after a Chinese Crested for quite a while, and had been unsuccessful in obtaining one. They met her and fell in love with her. 99% of dogs with issues are perfectly lovely 99% of the time, and that is what these people fell in love with. There is also a common perception that a behaviourist can solve all dog problems. In my experience, problem dogs will always have problems, but behaviourists can help people manage the problems. It is always hard work to do this. Many people that have bonded with their dogs from when they were pups are unwilling to put in all this work, so it is less likely somebody getting a new dog is going to be as motivated to do this. Also, all dogs are different. While people may have had success with previous problem dogs, and claim to be really tolerant and patient, until they have experienced the new problem, they will not know their chances of success. I am sure many people will argue with stories of dogs successfully rehabilitated and rehomed and I agree that sometimes people and dogs can be lucky. But when rehoming a large number of dogs a pattern can be observed of people overestimating their ability to deal with issues, and dogs with previous issues that were being worked on having their behaviour regress once in a new home. Good intentions cannot overcome serious genetic tendencies to aggression, learned behaviour takes many many hours to alter, if it can be altered at all. What we do know is that you worked with the dog for months, and Yellowgirl it was your good management, skill and care that made the dog pleasant to be around. It wasn't that the dog's faulty temperament was altered. Legally, you put yourself the family and the community at risk, placing this dog as a pet when it had a biting history. Without going into too much detail about this here, I will say that if that dog had have caused an injury, you would be liable. This issue alone could fill a whole topic and you need to familiarise yourself with the risks if you are selling or placing dogs as pets. I think it would be great if you would join up with a reputable rescue organisation, and learn about all the issues in rescue. Learn about behaviour assessment and other important procedures before you take things on alone. You are an intelligent and caring woman with a lot of valuable traits to bring to any organisation. Instead of coming under fire on a message board, you will be talking to real people and being guided by the wealth of their experience. Anyone can and does comment here, regardless of their knowledge of dog behaviour or the issues involved in rescue. You were absolutely right when you posted this. I think that there is a lot of information out there that will back up your original instincts not to rehome Banshee. If you arm yourself with knowledge, you can overcome some of the traps involved with such an emotional business. That way ultimately you can help more dogs and see more families happy with new dogs.

I state again, that had you read Banshee's story you would (or at least most people would) recognise that YG did EVERYTHING possible, she didn't hold back on all and any of Banshee's problems, she made the people go away and come back several times, she had the people have Banshee for overnight stays which apparently were wonderful. There is no doubt that Yellowgirl went to a lot of effort to get this dog into a home. That is not to say she did everything possible, as that would be ridiculous. Nobody could do everything possible. There hasn't been any criticism of her efforts to screen the home anyway. However there is now a situation where a family has been upset, a dog has been unsettled and confused, and Yellowgirl has a dog at home that her own dogs do not get along with. It isn't surprising that many people do not want a rescue dog when problems like this are being made public. I have read Banshee's story now, and believe that different decisions could have been made that could have avoided problems. This is a discussion forum. If no discussion is wanted, maybe Yellowgirl should have written her story in another forum. Commiserations are not as helpful as feedback as to what may have caused the problem to occur, it's up to Yellowgirl and everyone else reading whether to listen to criticism or ignore it. Some many learn something from this topic, many won't. Actually I am looking at it from the point of view of the new dog owner and from the legal point of view. The word "adopted' is the real euphemism, not the word "sold." I will continue to use the word where ever people are selling dogs, as pets or otherwise. I would rather you stay on topic and not talk about me.

We can all learn from this if we look at what went wrong and how it could have been avoided. If people are going to make their stories public, they will get criticism as well as credit. That is to be expected on a public forum. We all have a right to put forward our views on rescue practices and ethics. Nobody is above criticism. There are some issues that make some dogs unsuitable for sale as pets. I am not surprised this poor dog was returned. The same scenario could easily happen again if the dog is offered for sale again, as the dog has some issues that affect its adoptability.

I have found that it is really common for some people to agree to or want to take on dogs that have issues, possibly not understanding what impact those issues will have, or feeling as though the issues will be easily overcome. Unfortunately, these poor dogs are returned at a higher rate than other dogs that don't have any issues. Dogs are not returned because they have a couple of toilet accidents. Dogs are returned because the new owners are not prepared to put in the effort to help the dog settle into a toilet routine in its new home. They haven't bonded with the dog, for whatever reason. The toilet accidents may be blamed, but the real reason is often not admitted. I think its good that Banshee is going to stay with Yellowgirl instead of being sold again, but hope that her other dogs handle it ok.

No one is asking you to?! Don't worry about it Aziah . It seems one of Chewy's main aims in life is to find fault with me and/or my motives in any given situation No, I think that Chewy is more concerned about the ethics of rehoming a dog with temperament issues to a home with young children. This issue concerns me too, but I didn't read the original thread. Please don't make it personal.

I find this comment really offensive and small minded Perhaps some people may be very house proud and don't want their dogs roaming about the house. Perhaps some people have children and put them first. Perhaps their parents/partners don't appreciate dogs indoors. I find those reasons offensive and small minded. I don't mind dogs living outside, but only if it suits the dog. So you'd rather see someone out on the street, homeless, because they wouldn't abide by the house rules of their parents? I would rather they consider their parents wishes before bringing an unwelcome dog home. If the parents don't appreciate having dogs around, it may not be the best environment for the dog. The dog's welfare is should be the priority. If you cannot make it a priority, if that part of your life is not under your control, maybe reconsider getting a dog in the first place.

Maybe the owners were out for the whole day, didn't know the dog was gone and didn't get the phone message until much later?

I find this comment really offensive and small minded Perhaps some people may be very house proud and don't want their dogs roaming about the house. Perhaps some people have children and put them first. Perhaps their parents/partners don't appreciate dogs indoors. I find those reasons offensive and small minded. I don't mind dogs living outside, but only if it suits the dog.

Is it just the coat that is affected by a copper deficiency? How does the coat use the copper?

Mine start to dissolve if they get wet, so I can't take them out in the rain.