Greytmate

Let's do something about it then. One of my favourite things to do when I lived in Melbourne was to jump on the train to Flinders Street, and walk across to Southbank. With my dog. We would order a pasta from an outdoor restaurant, and the dog would be brought a bowl of water and an almond biscuit. Very civilised, I would even dress up in a nice dress and promenade along the waterfront showing off my lovely dog, before we got the train back home.

Obviously the breeder would want to talk to Italmum for a while before allowing any test. I don't see the problem with the things on the test. You don't want the children to sit quietly and call the dog? You don't want to see how the dog reacts when the children it will be living with get a bit loud running outside? Why not? You think the dog will react badly when food is taken off it? The test will give the breeder good information about the family as well as the family finding out more about the dog. I could have suggested that Italmum be sneaky and just give the dog an 'accidental' fright when the breeder wasn't watching. Maybe that would be a better idea if the breeder has an attitude like yours. Or she could just take it home and test it out at home later. Wouldn't that be a whole lot of fun for her kids if the dog did turn out to be unsuited and had to be returned?

I can see your concern Lilli. But it's a pretty watered-down test. It is also very specific for that particular dog, given the information we have already been told. His age and personality. Disclaimer- Don't do this test on a strange dog, or on any dog without the owner's permission. But I suggest that Italmum print it out, and take it along to show the breeder. The breeder would supervise the whole test. This isn't the type of test you do in another room. Nothing on the test could hurt the dog, and adults will be supervising the children. The breeder should want to do everything they can to make sure the dog will be happy with kids. Kids do drop things, giggle and squeal, and dogs do steal food off kids. Hopefully this dog will love the kids and be good with them.

As I have said before, puppies are not a clean slate. They have potential to be what their genes dictate, and hopefully that potential is good and will be reached, and no unexpected bad experiences shape the dog. It is important the the breeder gives you as much info as possible about Christian, but there are ways of knowing more. Dogs can be tested out, to see their reactions and gauge how they would be likely to react to things in your home. Ask the breeder first, but I am sure they won't mind you doing a few things to see what Christian does. Make a loud and sudden noise (drop a very heavy book on the floor about two meters away from the dog). It is normal for the dog to get a fright, but the test is, how quickly does the dog get over it? Ideally you want a dog that will get over it within a second or two, and come bouncing over for inspection, and not remain cowering away in fear for a little while. Don't reassure the dog or say a word, just watch what it does. Give the dog a pigs' ear or similar treat to chew. Can the breeder take the treat away from him without him snapping or growling? If they can, can you? (Do not allow the kids to be near the dog at any time while eating). If he growls or bites, I would say unsuitable for a home with kids (or maybe even adults unless he gets some training). Have the kids sit quietly and call Christian. Does he come over to them? Ask the kids to run around in a big circle around the dog, and get them to squeal and giggle. Is the dog scared of that? Does it get overexcited and jump on the kids or nip? At what level of the kids activity does the dog start to get overexcited or scared? Yes, it feels foolish to do these silly tests, and doing tests isn't foolproof. But doing tests like these will give you more of an idea of Christian's temperament than just patting and playing with him will. Goodluck.

I don't see how age will make Christian suitable or unsuitable. It will be his temperament that will be suitable or not. You know his age now, so if you think his age doesn't suit you, let the breeder know now so she can sell him to somebody who is happy to adopt a mature dog. If he does not have a suitable temperament, that has nothing to do with whether another adult dog or even a pup might be suitable or not. You will be none the wiser. Either you want a mature dog or a pup, or maybe you don't mind which. But if Christian isn't suitable that doesn't mean another dog of the same age won't be.

I can sympathise with the OP, but only if this is reported. The woman lied to you. Two reports and then confiscation is just total rubbish, that isn't how dog laws work at all. One dog of a breed that is bad, or an entire breed of bad dogs, doesn't matter. This dog and owner needs to be reported. BSL won't spread as long as the breed community works together to be responsible. We managed to relax BSL on greyhounds in QLD by doing that. BSL will only spread to breeds where the majority of owners do not want to be responsible.

The cafe might do that to get out of trouble. But is it legal to leave a dog tied up unattended on a public street? I refuse to tie up my dog metres away from where I sit. That isn't safe on a busy inner suburban street. The law is quite hypocritical when you consider that cafes seem to do nothing at all to remove birds and pest animals from outdoor dining areas, and never seemed to be fined when they fail to keep those animals away from dining areas.

I've been booted twice now.

I hope it goes well and he loves your kids.

Really? Even though they have accepted funds and have a contract in writing? They need to request a refund in writing. They need to state that they have paid a deposit on a pup of a certain age from a certain litter, the pup is no longer available, and a refund of deposit is required. Then they can go to the Small Claims court if the breeder doesn't refund the deposit. They should give up on the idea of getting the actual dog. That won't happen.

yes i have - but someone wisely said..which has made me change my mind..its better to get a puppy - because you dont know if the older dogs have been around children. and they might not have the right temperament ..or something along those lines lol:) this thread seems never ending , and i keep going round in lil circles I disagree with this advice. Not wise advice at all, and probably from somebody that doesn't know anything about rehoming adult dogs. An older dog that has been living with kids and is good with them is a much safer bet than a pup. The thing is to talk to the breeder/owner and get information about the dog's past. Obviously a dog that has been living in a kennel without any contact with kids isn't going to be suitable, but you can find out that information, and you can see how the dog reacts to the kids. Temperament is much easier to judge in adult dogs than it ever will be in pups. With pup you will only ever judge the potential, not the actual temperament.

I wouldn't be discriminating on colour. It is going to be hard enough for you to get the breed. Get whatever colour, and you will end up loving it anyway. The important thing is getting a cav at all isn't it?

Here is the info from the QLD government. Food Industry Fact Sheet. Number 8. Food Safety Standard 3.2.2 Clause 24 Animals and Pests states that: (1) A food business must: (a) subject to paragraph (b), not permit live animals in areas in which food is handled (other than seafood or other fi sh or shellfi sh); and (b) permit an assistance animal only in dining and drinking areas and other areas used by customers. Not only does the law suck, but the government admits it is "less understood." Probably because they make it really hard to find the law when you search for it. But this is only a standard, not an actual law, maybe easy to have changed.

Have you considered other breeds? While cavs are lovely dogs for kids, there are also other lovely slightly more robust breeds. Other than that, be persistent and wait. If the rescue people said they will help you, then sooner or later the right dog will come into rescue. With or without kids it is reasonable to expect to wait for the right dog, and having kids means that you might wait longer.

I agree. Not many parents will say their child isn't good with animals. All parents claim to teach their child manners around animals and all parents will claim that they supervise them. Kids that love animals and want to interact with them are at more risk of being bitten than kids who are not interested in animals. Most kids are great with animals most of the time. The dogs that I know have had a snap at kids did not snap because the child was trying to hurt it. The children were just acting like animal-loving children, and the dog interpreted an action as something that needed to be stopped. It all depends on the dog's tolerance levels. And that takes time to ascertain. If you get a dog from a rescue, make sure it has been in foster care around little kids for at least a few weeks. Children are inclined to cuddle dogs, and put their faces close. Children accidentally sit on tails and limbs. Not all dogs should live with children, because they won't tolerate this type of thing from them. I don't want to hear how good little Johnnie is with dogs or how gentle he is or how much he loves them. It means absolutely nothing. I want to know how skilled you are at picking up dogs signals of discomfort. I want to know how you will arrange the dog's bed, crate, food bowls etc. to ensure the dog can feel secure. I want to know what rules and limits you set on your children's interactions with the dog, not how much you encourage interaction. Talk about those things, and breeders and rescuers will feel more confident that less could go wrong.

It is in state law and council laws.

It's disgusting isn't it. In other states the waiters bring out a bowl of water for the dog. In QLD you are told to leave. Just one reason why QLD is not a good place to live.

Having the post removed means that fewer people will be likely to see it. If somebody wanted to take legal action over something written here, the first step would be to ask for the post to be deleted by admin. It doesn't cease to exist, but asking that the post be removed is an attempt to minimise the damage.

No pup has a clean slate, they are a product of their genetics. Not all pups can be easily trained to do all things, in the the first few months you know it is going to do plenty of things you may not want it to do. Some pups will grow into fearful dogs despite what training is done. Many people buy a baby pup with the best intentions of training it, but end up not being quite the dog trainer they thought they could be. What you say may be true if acquiring a dog that is completely unknown. But if you buy an older pup or an adult that has a known history, you can end up with a dog that is more likely to be what you want than a pup that may not turn out to meet expectations. The OP is after an adult dog from a breeder. You cannot say that the dog is unknown, the breeder would know a lot about the pup and how it would get along with a family.

Don't let the kids take their shoes off or sit or roll around on the ground in a dog park. They could catch hookworm. It is unlikely a dog would try to hurt a child if the child was leaving the dog alone. Even if that dog hated kids or feared them, it will most likely keep its distance. Boisterous unruly dogs are more likely to be a problem. People are supposed to have their dogs under control, but if a dog accidentally knocks your child over, nobody is going to be too concerned, except maybe the parents. So I would make the decision based on how carefully you supervise your toddler, and also on how traumatised she would be if a big dog rushed up and accidentally hurt her. Some kids just get up and keep playing, other kids lose it completely.

I hope your friend does something. Because now that he knows that his dog will kill the other small animals, it is bordering on illegal for him to keep the dog in the area where it can continue to catch or kill them. Keep this in mind should your friend not take the matter seriously. Dogs can be trained out of this. However it is highly specialised (and expensive) training, that if done incorrectly will make the problem worse. The only satisfactory (not cruel) solution for now is to keep the dog and the small animals where they cannot see hear or smell each other at all.

*Waiting for somebody less tired than me to come in an explain Prey Drive Sequence properly for everyone.*

LOL, you make it sound like it's a really big deal or something. It isn't. Report em all...Let Troy sort em out.

Oh yeah. Some thing need to be instantly erased from this place. It is public and google goes here. I have even reported my own posts. Troy does a great job of balancing this forum. Basically it educates and encourages ethical behaviour. Well done Troy.

Since when does somebody become so important, that we just have to accept whatever they say about their animals so that we don't upset that person? I don't think it is acceptable to be 'fostering' animals and keeping them in unused buildings. It is really important that dogs being adopted out by rescuers are in the best physical and mental health. That cannot be achieved by keeping them locked in a flat by themselves. That is nowhere near best practice for rescue, its dodgy. Sorry Brooke, but it sounds like you a person that has taken on too much. It's not ethical to rehome an aggressive dog (but being in rescue you should know that). Put the dog to sleep, and don't take on any more animals until you have a stable home.