Alyosha

I would suggest Greyhound as well - get a black one and pretend it's Lab!! Be careful with strata management though, I have known people stuck in predicaments when they have had written agreements that pets are ok, only to have management personnel change and change the rules - causing all sorts of nightmares for pet owners... Even if they are the property owners.

Thanks Anita - have bookmarked for tomorrows coffee break!! The question reminds me: I seem to recall reading that in Poland (which is world famous for it's quality Arabian horses) any purebred Arabian cannot be titled Show Champion or registered for breeding without passing it's racing and/or performance testing. I think this is also true for other countries (in Europe in particular) who have a horse breed that is considered a national pride - such as Spain... In these countries performance testing - as part of original function - is considered vital to breed preservation. Maybe form follows function but it doesn't necessarily work the other way around?

I fed them for a little while, although my target dog didn't like them. When I researched them there seemed to be varied opinons as to whether they could be a complete food successfully. A week possibly isn't enough time to wean him onto a completely different food gradually to avoid stomach upset and then back again before he gets home...? Maybe if he really likes them he'll eat them in addition to his normal ration, thus increasing his food intake and hopefully his condition. Good luck with it!

I think the perception is easy to draw in any situation where the line between commercialism and professionalism becomes hazy. Every individual situation then has it's own details. So when it's completely up front like with Dr Billinghurst that yes, of course he's going to refer this diet, and yes he makes money from it it is a little different. A level of transparency exists which dispels the negative aspects of it. Obviously it is going to be plain that he refers and recommends this diet based on his professional opinion, but balancing the commercial aspect is that he is more that plain that he is recommending it purely not for commercial gain but for his firm convictions that it is genuinely better for the animal. Does that make sense? It's the morning and I haven't had coffee yet!! And no, Crisovar, I didn't think you attacked me at all. :rolleyes: That didn't refer to you in any way. I was more worried about starting an avalanche! I am wondering whether it effects the relationship between people and their vets ever, if they quietly wonder if the vet recommended a certain food because of their opinion or because of money. I don't think it's fair for pet food companies to ever place vets, their staff or their customers in such a position, but if their product is genuinely great then I suppose it matters little. Obviously it means much to these companies to have veterinary opinions on their food from an advertising point of view, and no vet should be asked to supply advice or opinion for free. I don't think pet food companies are in need of charity! If I was working at a vet clinic, I wouldn't want people criticising me for something like that when it wasn't the case. But also I would love to be able to supply people a dog food that I knew was going to be a good thing for the health of the animal, without having to hope they were going to comply with something complicated. And prescription diets are completely different, as they a re obviously medically related so I don't think anyone would question a vet recommending them. I hope not anyway! It's also heartening to hear that many vets wouldn't hesitate to recommend a different food if they thought it genuinely applied in a particular case. I think that was probably at the heart of my original post (but I'm not always clear and prone to waffling!!). Again, there appears the transparency that dispels the perceived conflict. But you do have to accept that it is a system that could easily be manipulated by people with less morals than most, and not professional in free of these unfortunately.

This has been discussed here many times, and no one who has brought it up has offered any proof to support it. The link you supplied is from the US. Dog food is treated the same as any other product sold at a vet clinic, there are no kick backs. Vets are free to stock whatever brands they wish and often they carry Hills for their prescription diets, and whatever other brands they feel offer a good quality and easily obtained range for client convenience and it is good business sense to provide a range of products that cllients need. The major Vet Supply companies stock several brands of good quality dog food, and in most clinics you will find they are the source of just about everything that a vet clinic needs and sells, they offer a great service and generally you have your order overnight. So Vets generally carry the brands that are easily obtained by them. Discussions on diet with clients can be very time consuming and in many cases pointless, owner compliance with suggestions that are difficult or time consuming is low, it is much easier to suggest a product of convenience that the owner can buy and use, no prep no thought, good compliance. There is no great conspiracy, the only kick backs I have seen are promo items like toys, feed bins etc. We hardly ever see the reps for the companies let alone any kickbacks. Vet schools barely touch on nutrition and diet, and small animal nutritionists are a bit like hens teeth in Australia. Sorry if I upset you Crisovar, not intended. The large pet food companies are no doubt largely multinational are they not? So it goes without saying that people will be equally concerned about what is publicised about a particular company even if comes form overseas. My concern is the perceived conflict of interest involved. I am certainly not accusing anyone of any form of corruption. But one Google search brings a first link to a large pet food company page with a resident expert giving feeding advice who still operates several practices (Australia). First link only, the list goes on and on... I have numerous articles on animal feeding in magazines geared at certain companies and brands of feed written by qualified veterinary surgeons. If they are on the full-time payroll of that company then more power to them - and congrats on getting a good consultative position like that! But if similar opinions, references and or articles are solicited from professional Vet staff by pet food companies, what ethical position does that leave them if they are still in active practice? I am assuming that they are paid for their professional opinion, as they well should be. Are staff at such practices feeling a moral obligation to recommended that particular food? And are they easily able to then be criticised based upon that perception? I can't speak for anyone else, but my tertiary training in ethics leads me to believe that a perceived conflict of interest can be drawn here. I don't think it's a fair thing to lump on anyone who is only going to work for the day, whether they be a vet or receptionist. But if it is there it is there, and will be perceived by more than one individual. Nobody wants a professional opinion that is tainted by commercialism. I am also well aware of the impact of owner compliance etc on recommending particular foods. And is it a factor for vet staff that at least if the customer buys from them they know they have got something decent for the dog? What I am curious about is how others feel. I tend to be a suspicious person by nature, so maybe it's just me. I am also concerned that if this subject has been brought up again and again as stated above, that may indicated that others share the perception. Ideas? (preferred over attacks please... )

I think kick backs and profits is more to the point - sorry about that. I have no idea how extensive it is, but seems to me a conflict of interest. I know the same stuff can be true with doctors and certain company's drug lines etc. Veterinarians and Pet Food Is this more of a thing that goes on in the US? Or is it prevalent here as well? I don't want to be stepping on toes, but am curious...

I tried Satin Balls - after all the talk about them said no dog could resist them guess what? She could... wouldn't eat more than one. And that one with a look on her face like you were feeding her poison! All the others were nuts for them. :rolleyes: They could be worth trying though.

I can just imagine sidling up to a recently done poo, big wooden pepper grinder in hand...*hehehehe* Imagine what people would think if they saw!!!!!!!! :rolleyes: Just put a white serviette over your arm as you do it, just like in a posh restaurant! Peachy....yes, I had heard about chilli flakes and thought it much too harsh on a pup. Just a cheapy container of powdered pepper will do. You guys have me laughing out loud reading this one - especially just after reading some of the other threads in here tonight... It's the image of sidling that got me. One of ours was shocking for this, still does it occasionally at 10mths. Feeding her Livamol seemed to help. Improved her coat, condition and almost stopped her poo fixation. She would wait behind the others as they were going so she could jump right in while it was fresh.... shudders.... then want kisses.... And yes, we upped the frequency of her wormings as well.

Vitamin b6 can also help with travel sickness. But does according to weight carefully as is it an oil based vitamin (unlike vit c) so excess will not be excreted easily.

Thankyou. I'm interested to know how many of the scary medical problems dogs are suffering in alarming amounts these days relate to the increase (or maybe obsession?) about their diet. Do you guys think they were just not diagnosed so well in the past, or that they are on the increase? Lets not forget that a dog's digestive system is designed as it was originally - as a scavenger and carnivore. I know that we have altered dogs requirements slightly by altering breeds by form etc. But they still are basically what they are - dogs, with dog digestions. It worries me that many vets are in receipt of payment by dog food companies. Does this concern others?

Animal fat is bad for dogs? I actually have to add more to the diet of some of mine, being low-body-fat breeds, especially in winter??

We had a pup like this recently and she drove me nuts - I used to dream about trying to get her to eat more and put on weight! We still call her our supermodel but she's miles apart from how she used to be! I used to worry about non-dog people seeing her and complaining to the RSPCA! Livamol helped her enormously. As a natural additive it shouldn't interfere with your diet and might be worth a try. I got mine online and it's non expensive as well. Good luck, and much sympathy!!

Chickens are largely naturally carnivorous, as pointed out. Kangaroo is not the perfect 10 as listed. Have a look at this site, and you might think twice about buying 'roo meat for your dogs. Moratorium on Kangaroo Industry Kangaroos are culled in an often cruel manner with little to no regulation of how the population and carcasses are managed,. Be aware that the video on the link may be very disturbing to some viewers... And also be aware that the meat handling techniques seen in it are of human consumption meat, so anything only going to pets can be scaled down in quality accordingly.

I think when Cesar Milan is talking about walking in front all the time he may be mostly referring to dogs that aleady display dominance issues over people. If you watch footage of him with his pack they play around him and in front, also playing fetch (which would be interesting with a dog behind you). The key is that they are doing it with respect for him, not barging him out of the way to get in front. That might be more of an issue... He works with real problem dogs, most of our dogs would never have these sort of issues as they have a normal healthy relationship with their owners. Am I making sense?? :D Or rambling?? My dogs often walk in front, but I would think that is normal for sighthounds as they don't want the human in the way if they take off after something! I certainly don't want to be in front of them if I release them to run after wild rabbits!! It would be interesting for a gundog to try and work behind it's owner, or any dog for that matter. Herding, terriers... I can't think of any function a working dog can accomplish behind it's owner??? But they certainly accept their trainer's as leaders.

I don't know Chuckie but share your concerns. As far as I have heard all mince products for pets - but particularly those with chicken - have preservatives of one kind or another. I'm currently looking for a nice heavy duty mincer to make my own - one that can crunch up chicken bones and all for preference.

Thanks Anita. I love the kickatinalong pyjamas - but so do borzoi... she eats them. Or she swings the salukis around by them until they give up and rip. Keeps my sewing machine busy. The salukis think it's a great game though! I'll have to keep her separated when it's cold and they're out. It's a shame as she's their favourite playmate - they like to play at being the prey and she's the huntress. They're not too worried while they're on the couch anyway!

I know that a lower than average heart rate in horses can be used as a sign of fitness and increased endurance capacity, so it may be linked with her breeding - being able to go all day... Hope she's ok.

Thanks t-time. Worth a try. She really won't grab them much if I'm about - only if I turn my back or go inside! She is very naughty, but only young so I'll keep at her and maybe one day she'll grow out of it... - wishful thinking perhaps?? I have to keep her shut in to even use the washing line (have tried hanging water bomb balloons in the hems of sheets containing water & lemon juice to no avail, just makes it more fun...). Lucky I love her so much!!

I've used Bonnie Working for mine for years and always had good results. Even picky eaters seem to like it, and the end result (poo pick up!) is firm - non soggy and stuck all through trousers or tails like I have got from Supercoat!! I sympathise with wanting to have reasonable food costs, I like big dogs and have family to feed as well!!

Has anyone got any experience in keeping dogs from chewing coats (man-made) off each other when it's cold? We normally have long coated dogs that don't often feel the cold so haven't experienced it before. But the two Salukis we have at the moment are feeling the cold and my Borzoi bitch will not leave any coat on them for more than 30 seconds! Has anyone found anything bad-tasting or similar that can be put on the outside of coats to discourage this a little? They are happy inside in the warm but I like them to go out for play and they are just getting too cold all naked...