Nic.B

No, I answered a reasonable question from Dog Nurse simple as that.

Sorry for the late reply and for your support I am thrilled to say we have Scarlet all organised Dognurse, you can still fly AmStaffs, though Quantas will no longer fly them. Virgin is happy to though Thank you MM

Miahael Linke (RSPCA ACT) worked directly with the planning dept and personally lobbied their Minister re this issue. There was also a lot of help and support locally from people with pets. The new laws simply make it illegal to have a no pets policy. Pets can still be refused of course, but due reason needs to be proved. There is also an appeal mechanism. There is no longer a balnket ban, and their is some equity.

There are some great suggestions! I am running in and out today though will try and read through it all later. I agree re how difficult it can be to find rental pet friendly accomodation. I will try to find a link though there are a group of young Lawers called "Bleats" who are trying to help in this regard. I really think that councils can also be doing a lot more education and promotion. They can add things to their websites, put educational info into rates notices, hold awareness days, training days, pet care days etc. I love this http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=14291 I think it is fantastic and wish people had more access to this sort of info. I read something (might have been a short video? from the US or UK) here on DOL ages ago about a service provided by volunteers where people surrendering their dogs spoke with a welfare volunteer prior to surrender to see if they could find ways to assist people in addressing the issues, allowing them to keep their pet. It was working well I believe. What I would like to know is why, year after year there are classic dumpage periods. They happen year in, year out. Christmas is nothing short of a nightmare, I have never seen so many dogs it's mind blowing. Add to that, many rescuers are taking a much needed break themselves, volunteers are also often away and often Staff are taking leave in shelters, so there are staff shortages as well.

There are so many elements to pet surrender. God it is overwhelming at times I am sorry if this is off topic as this thread is specifically about pet shops; Though the surrender rate rises dramatically at certain times of the year. Christmas/New Year is the worst (At HP this went on until March) to say it was a living nightmare is very much an understatement, school holidays, Easter. It is simply not a coincidence as it happens year after year. Hundreds and hundreds of great family pets. A campaign is desperately needed in early November educating people to make arrangements for their pets while they are making arrangements for their holiday instead of leaving it to the day before, and dumping the dogs and cat. Perhaps people can consider boarding, having a house sitter, a neighbor or family member minding the animals (I have done that 100 times for friends and family), hire a pet service to feed and exercise twice a day or consider pet friendly accommodation. Or if you’re like me stay home as you are surrounded by animals. Also other crucial education is to ensure chip details are up to date before you go away. I have seen so many dogs impounded where the details were out of date, the owners were away and not contactable. Some of these dogs only got out by the skin of their teeth, hours before pts when the owners returned and started looking. This Christmas is probably a good time to begin a survey (If approved) I am not sure re reason for surrender, as many people are dishonest. Call me skeptical though I find it hard to believe that there is a dramatic rise in surrenders during the holidays yet the same pathetic reasons for surrender are used. No one comes in and says “I am going on holidays and have made no arrangements for my pets” The only time I have ever said something to someone surrendering their dog was when a guy came in with his dog, I found out as much a possible about the dog before taking her pic. He said “You will find a good home for her wont you” I was polite, though stated that pts was tomorrow, there were 20 other dogs on that list, so she would have to take her chances along with all of the others. He surrendered her, though to his credit he then came back 1 hour later and picked her up. It is a great combination of things IMO that lead to the demise of family pets in pounds and shelters, all need to be addressed, and change is long overdue.

I agree that pet shops are not the only issue that needs to be addressed. That is very clear. They certainly do contribute to the problem of unwanted animals though (we all have real life examples of that) and if they are serious that must be addressed. Not just through impulse buying, also health and behavioral issues which stem from sourcing poorly bred puppies from unregulated, unreputable sources, and then holding puppies during their critical period offering no stimulation or socialisation what so ever in most cases. Despite this they deny there is an issue at all. I have seen many pet shop chipped dogs and BYB’d dogs who have major health issues, heart problems, behavioral issues, patella problems are common. No wonder peoples blood boils. Pet supply stores who do not sell live animals (or perhaps refer customers onto reputable Registered Breeders/ Rescues) are worth their weight in gold. I support mine greatly and spend a fortune there despite knowing that I could buy things at a cheaper price at other places. I value their knowledge, support and my good working relationship with them as a customer. Impulse buying happens in more than pet shops, that doesn’t and should never discount their part in this though. Similar to the ‘Desexing from Shelters’ debate, which I have experienced a 100 times. People claim that there is no evidence desexing all adopted animals from shelters lowers the number of dogs impounded. Yet, it is a mute argument while most other sources continue to send out undesexed animals. How on earth would you expect to see an improvement in the number of unwanted animals coming into shelters, while most other sources continue to send out undesexed puppies? You can take the higher ground though; If pounds and shelters do desex, at least they are not contributing to the problem of unwanted litters, accidental litters or worse, BYB’ing or the farming of animals. The most frustrating part for me personally is that clearly there is an issue, yet everyone points the finger at everyone else and says there is no issue. It is incredibly disheartening for those who meet unwanted family pets daily and then witness their demise, often through no fault of their own.

Quote; 'Why can't the same be done with purebred pups? ' I am not sure which part of my post you are refering to Anne? I have only ever seen/experienced pet shops in high retail areas. The rspca centre is the first of it's kind in a high retail area. I have never seen anything else, so am unable to compare. The RSPCA retail rehoming centre, are not buying BYB puppies or farmed puppies for $35 each and adding massive mark ups, as pet shops do. They are not supporting a market where people simply profit and cut corners to maximise their profit. The dogs are already needing a home, fully vet worked, temp tested, have follow up support, have a screening process etc. They offer proactive education and advice for anyone entering the centre for their own pets as well. There is no reason why purebreed pups cant be represented the same way, nor other rescue orgs promoting their dogs in the same way. Though it would certainly need to be a great step above what your average pet shop offers if you have the very best interests of the animals at heart and want to move forward for the welfare of companion animals. The RSPCA centre has a small range of dogs and cats. The puppies ranged from 12 weeks through to adults 5 years of age. There were 6 in total small/ large/ medium breeds. There are no tiny faces pleading through the window. It was a great mix. The same with the cats and kittens, two littlies and two lovely adult cats.

Quote; ‘I totally agree with Anne we need to find out for what reason Joe Public is prepared to part with MORE money than what a pure bred would cost from a registered breeder as well as NO PED CERT....WHY do they do that Not enough promotion of Pure Bred dogs? BYBer ads easier to find in papers and on supermarket ad boards?’ Think about where pet shops are placed – Major shopping centers, In retail areas of suburbs. Don’t know of any that are out in the middle of nowhere. Then put cute little puppies right in the front window, so that they can look into the eyes of all who walk past and draw them in, especially children, who then take their parents in. Some people actually believe they are “rescuing’ these puppies and kittens! Byb’s often sell from the side of the road. Last year I drove past a home only 1km from where I live. Main road, with a ute, cage and 10 lab/kelpie puppies for sale for $50 each on the medium strip a week before Christmas. No Vacc’s, no chips, thin, wormy puppies (I stopped and spoke with them) At my small local shop I saw a familiar lady who was selling malt x puppies from the back of her car. She sent her 7 children out to ask people if they would like to buy a puppy. Don’t know how much they were, I was numb after being at the pound all day and just had to keep going for my own sanity. RSPCA have set up a retail out let for their animals. It is wonderful to see families oooing and arrring over recued pets instead of PP just down the way. The animals are beautifully set up, vet worked, temp tested, have play areas and areas they can retreat to if they feel they need it. They offer education, advice and take the dogs for walks through the centre to socialise/exercise the dogs, promote and educate people about rescued pets. It’s brilliant! The animals do not stay there overnight and they are open 7 days a week. It’s working, they plan to set up others just like it in different areas.

Just to Clarify, the entire release has most certainly been addressed Re Scarlet. Everything from start to finish has been addressed legally and responsibly I would not have it any other way - it is simply not possible any other way believe me. My reference to looking at the bigger picture or long term issues re formal assessment is perhaps for a few very deserving crosses in the future (hopefully).

Thank you for the info I will look into a couple of things for the future. It is great to know the process does not take very long as many dogs in a shelter environment (despite breed) are living on borrowed time depending on kennel space available. Agree this is the best way to go.

Thank you we are almost there! Will keep you all posted!

Yes they are sadly Thank you, Scarlet is listed as a cross and is clearly a cross. We did look into breed assessment, though those contacts are difficult to find at short notice. If you can recommend anyone I would be very grateful in terms of the future. It would most certainly be the most constuctive option, with fewer restrictions imposed. Scarlet’s rescue has been cleared at all levels. It took two weeks, though she still needed to move into a BSL free state regardless. Hope to improve upon that in the future.

No, it is not illegal to release a Pit Bull cross. I have looked into every aspect of this with great care and concern. She is also going to WA where BSL does not apply. Everything has been done by the letter and will continue to be. Thank you for your offer Holly's Mummy :D

I'd look to another airline like virgen, do they fly to Perth? Qantas suck and are so overpriced. Hi yes the quote I have is with Virgin and then another flight to Kalgoorlie with Skywest. It just makes it so difficult to try and help others like Scarlet :D I was hoping she may have paved the way for some other dogs of her breed, who have tested brilliantly and have such an enormous amount to offer.

Flying her to Melbourne and then onto Perth may be a cheaper option, though I can imagine more unsettling for Scarlet. Regardless of what breed she is said to be I have been advised they will still refuse to take her, so I would prefer to be upfront to avaoid any hicups.

Yes, I am affraid so :D We need to be careful re her transport options, I would never forgive myself if something happened to her on the way. Fingers crossed.

Hi everyone, I hope this is not off topic, if so please let me know if I need to remove it. Scarlet Ruby is a lovely Pitt Bull cross female who found herself at Hawkesbury Shelter. She proved be be a delightful dog in every regard, simply gorgeous, for the first time ever work went underway to assist her into safety. After two weeks of work, Stat decs etc Scarlet was the first dog of this breed ever to be released from Hawkesbury to go to WA. Scarlet is now fully vetworked, everyone adores her from kennel staff through to the vets, vet nurses you name it. We are having a lot of trouble getting her to Perth WA, then onto Kalgoorlie. Quantas will not fly her So far the quote for her flights is nearly $800. Is this a reasonable quote? I have not even looked into road transport, as it is such a long way. We would like to assist other dogs like Scarlet Ruby, though after boarding, vetwork, and flights it is simply not maintainable financially. (She is going to a highly recommended, experienced couple, who adore the breed for rehoming.) Any suggestions? Kind Regards, Nic

Yes, Thank you! I will have a read through - I am not sure, though I think the biggest problem at HP is BYB's and unwanted litters being badly rehomed. They are so cute when they are little. There is a huge difference seen in socio economic areas who impound at HP. Over half the shelter is taken up with Penrith dogs, not many are reclaimed, Baulkham Hills has a low number of arrivals and have a good reunite rate, Hawkesbury is very much a mix of the two.

I agree It's Time for change. I have been contemplating doing a study on the where dogs surrendered to HP have been originally sourced from, mostly for my own interest. Of course I will need to ask permission first, I have a few thoughts, though what sort of questions do you feel would be important to include? It will have to be simple and not take long to fill out or people may not bother.

That's not off topic I dont think - Steve is looking at it across the whole board. I thought your post was really interesting. Something you said really twigged with me - that cute little fluffy grows up eventually. How can that impulse buy be nipped in the bud? Age old question really. From a shelter perspective (which is what I am familiar with ) and from speaking with the community; Its all about education and offering it 10 fold, we don’t want to see dogs fall back at all. More than that, we need to work really hard to inspire with the hands on stuff, Education, training, temp, matching families etc. All crucial. I can’t believe people pay so much money for a puppy from these sources, with nothing. It simply blows my mind! As a potential new dog owner the owner must understand the needs of a puppy, what can they offer the puppy? are they able to meet the puppy's needs? also training and natural puppy behavior is to be expected not to mention the life expectancy of a dog and the commitment needed for the life of the dog. As someone involved in the welfare of animals, pretty well versed (I would think) I still at times feel as though I would love to shove a puppy under my jumper, I can relate to the impulse draw card in many respects even though I know much better, am well educated and am completely opposed to Impulse buying, BYB'ing, petshops and of course any farming of animals. There are times of year that are horrific and the number of dogs dumped goes through the roof during school holidays in particular. It is not a coincidence. I would love to get some stats on that, perhaps I can start with that this Christmas?

Sorry in advance if I have not read every single detail, have had too many coffees reading through it all though! I don’t have any experience re breeding, though have learnt a vast amount volunteering at my local shelter over a number of years now. Obviously all agree that an enormous number of healthy, rehomeable family pets are needlessly pts in pounds and shelters across the country and that it must be addressed. For me personally It is incredibly disillusioning to witness great family pets being killed. Reasons for surrender are more than often pathetic and there is a poor reunite rate (At HP it is around 25% overall from three council areas) I am consistently amazed at the lack of care and concern some people have for their pets. It is frustrating to me for people to say they cannot afford to keep a dog, yet pensioners and even those living out of cars will do anything for their dog, at their own expense. They will feed their dog before themselves every time, and offer good quality of life. We have people in the urgent rescue section who eat baked beans for two weeks to donate toward a dog in a shelter that they have never met. I honestly believe that people who are responsible for the demise of a dog have not formed an intimate bond/relationship with the dog. There are a number of reasons for this. If you have an intimate relationship/bond with your dog you will always go over and above for their best interests and to meet their needs. At HP when people are looking to adopt a dog or cat we find they need a great amount of support and it is always sincerely appreciated. In an effort to reduce risk factors a lot of time is spent with people whenever possible to match them well with a potential new family pet, to ensure they are aware of their breed traits, specific needs etc. Training is a major issue, this not only promoted, senior volunteers really inspire people with a training session with the dog in front of them. We show the new family the potential of the dogl, we share with them what motivates the dog, we give them training techniques that will stimulate the dog both mentally and physically also how to correct common behavior which may have presented such as jumping up and pulling on a lead. It just seems wrong not to offer basic, fundamental info and advice as you may be setting the dog up for failure (not to mention the family) I am opposed to pet shops and dog farming, and BYB’ing can’t stand it. Dogs are companion animals, they rely upon, resonate with their people and do well with an intimate relationship with their owners. The opportunity to impulse buy is rife, god even I feel like taking one of those puppies home at times. Many move into a heavily suburban area where only a tiny courtyard is the only stimulation offered. They are so cute when they are little, then they grow up, get relegated out to the yard/courtyard, exhibit normal puppy/teenage behavior are offered no training and bingo, off to the pound they go or worse, live a life of passive neglect. Many dogs at HP are around this classic age/stage of development. We recently had a chipped to pet shop small/tiny breed female less than twelve months old heavily pregnant. Thank god she went to rescue as she was enormous and had 6 huge Staffy x puppies (caesarian) while under duty of care. The dog surrendered just prior to her was 4 months old, also chipped to a pet shop, typical designer breed. The whole family surrendered him on a Sunday morning and happily waved goodbye! Great example for the kids!! I was approached by a young woman who worked in a pet shop, she had some terrible tales to tell from her experiences there. It was a low economic area, puppies were bought for $35 each or less and sold with massive markups. The BYB’s were mostly on pensions and BYB’ing was an extra source of income for them without being caught out. The puppies were in poor condition, wormy , they cut every corner possible. Many Pet shops are not a member of the PIAA and happily fly under the radar. I agree chipping details are a great place to start though it is difficult to enforce atm. It is illegal to sell an unchipped puppy in NSW though if you or I were a Ranger, we drove past a BYB’d litter of pups for sale on the side of the road, we went in to check the puppies were chipped and they were not. The owner would simply say they will be chipped prior to sale. The only way to catch them is to rely on someone buying an unchipped puppy, then taking the puppy to a pound/body and to make a complaint against them. While they are tiny and sweet that is the last thing that would cross their mind! Even if caught out the BYB’r would probably get a slap on the wrist. We see many unwanted litters at HP, we have had a huge number of young puppies in recently. Desexing is so important for family pets. At times people will actually tell you they intend to have a litter with a dog. Sometimes they simply have no clue and after good education quickly change their mind, others ( if hell bent on the idea) you have no hope of educating. Desexing would stop them though. In my experience I do believe that far more people are open to education on issues such as desexing, training etc than not. I agree education is the key, though it will need to be a massive campaign and reach/cover a wide range of people, ages, backgrounds. I am sorry if I have gone off topic ETA Open to education.

D4DOGZ I am not sure how you reduce frogs I have moved all the water though and close the curtains at night now so that there are less bugs on the windows. I didnt know snakes liked frogs. I guess from what I have learnt and what others are saying is that we need to reduce any risk factors which encourage snakes, though you can never be sure, even when you have done everything possible. Nothing beats a high level of supervision though during the worst periods of year and most risky times of the day. I have been extremely lucky to have been there on all four occasions. The most recent case was far to close for comfort though. My parents had a huge brown on their tiny lawn area, close to the house and they live in the suburbs on the coast. The lawn is immaculate and garden spotless.

I agree Death by snake bite is terrible and allowing them to breed is something I am opposed to in any regard. We have one cat. She is indoors only, I would not have it any other way.

Yes I have been forced to remove all water bowls in the house yard and just keep a large bowl inside and on our glass enclosed deck which the dogs have free acsses too. We have a large dam away from the house. I am hoping if I remove any water source around the house, they may decide to stay or head over there.... I dont know really. There are no easy answers though it all happens in a second or two and if you do not witness it yourself you would really not know until far too late. It all happens in a heartbeat.

Dear little Danny, please get better for your Mum. I am so sorry MM, I can understand how dreadful you must feel. Sending you both lots of healing, positve energy. I hope Danny is home with you and the Moochers very soon. 's for you both. P.s Beautiful photo