melzawelza

Oh my GOD, they really put that in the magazine?! That is DISGUSTING!!!

"There are those out there in the community indiscriminately cross breeding large and dangerous dogs, then not looking after them,effectively unleashing them on the public. These people should feel the full weight of the law that have been devised to combat them." That says it all doesn't it. Pro BSL through and through 'As long as it doesn't affect our precious papered dogs'. I am all for papers and pedigree, but I am also all for ALL dogs, cross breed or not, being protected from inhumane laws that not only negatively affect dogs and dog owners but do NOTHING to protect the public from dog bite incidents. He will be biting his tongue for agreeing with BSL when they come after the papered Amstaffs. Sigh.

Big thumbs up!! We've been conversing with Brad almost daily and he is doing a brilliant job!

Brilliant, thanks for adding that Sumosmum! We've been conversing almost daily with Brad and Melbourne is also going to be a really inspiring day.

Hi M-j, the wonderful Dju from the board is currently constructing a brilliant, professional website for us, and should be finished by Sunday at the latest (hopefully earlier). Once it's up and running I'll post the link here for everyone. On my phone so can't link, but if you jump on the Australia wide rally page I think there is a link to the Shep group, you may be able to find the info that you are after there.

Hi M-j, the wonderful Dju from the board is currently constructing a brilliant, professional website for us, and should be finished by Sunday at the latest (hopefully earlier). Once it's up and running I'll post the link here for everyone. On my phone so can't link, but if you jump on the Australia wide rally page I think there is a link to the Shep group, you may be able to find the info that you are after there.

Klink - there are rallies being set up right now. Take a look here http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/226962-dogs-in-the-community/

Sorry, I cut and pasted this from the Facebook page cause it frustrates me when people post events and don't provide time and place. The paste didn't exactly work Should read: TAS - Parliament House . . . with no link, then SA on the next line. The main Facebook link is at: http://www.facebook....275080639183977 QLD is still listed as TBA and TAS still listed as Parliament House with no link. Sandgrubber, I posted the link to the Australian wide page in the first post and made the comment that people should go to that link to find their individual rally. Thank you for posting the text from that link though. From what I understand, no one has stepped up to take carriage of the TAS event which is a shame.

Not at all Zara, It's actually good to have some discussion on the topic! But I could see how deep we were going and that it has the potential to go for pages and pages, and that would be a worry LOL. Will check out your thread

Zara, like I said, we can NEVER know if a specific incident that happened to a specific child would have happened if the owner had a different breed of dog. However science shows us that ON A WHOLE it doesn't matter if you euthanise an entire breed or type of dog, because other countries have done it and the attacks have not reduced. Little Ayen may have lived if the neighbour owned a different breed of dog, or she might not have... we will never know. However we do know through studies that even if Ayen had lived, another child or adult somewhere would have likely died. BSL does not reduce attack rates. As much as the debate is very interesting and I could go on discussing it forever, I don't think it is the right discussion for this thread. I really don't want information about the rally being bogged down in this argument that has happened many times before all over the forum. If you'd like to start another thread on the topic please feel free and I'll happily come over and continue discussing with you over there, but do you mind if we keep this thread for rally stuff?

I'm going to post here the unbelievable contrast between the media reporting on that attack and the actual interview given by the dog owner to try and encourage people to not blindly trust what is reported in the media. Can I just say first that this dogs behaviour was in no way acceptable or excusable and I am horrified that this man had to go through this ordeal and that his dogs lives were lost. But that is no excuse for the media to make up stories that incite fear in people and present a breed of dog as some kind of super predator with unbelievable strength and aggression. First are just a few articles reported in the media at the time. news.com.au theage.com.au Reported again by The Australian only this month - "In 2009, an American pit bull attacked a Melbourne man who was walking his two small dogs. It killed one of his dogs and latched on to the man's hand, maintaining a powerful grip until ambulance officers arrived and injected the dog with lethal drugs." The Australian Now the link to the man actually being interviewed and describing the attack. He says himself that the dog bit him but then let go, and that HE HELD THE DOG IN A HEADLOCK until the authorities turned up. The fact that our media is not called to account for this kind of blatant lies and fear mongering is disgusting. I just want to point out that all of this will not be a large focus in the rally at all, as all can see from our mission statement on the first page, but I felt it important to clarify this for people such as Zara and any others who may be reading.

Zara, science and every expert in the area disagrees with you. If they naturally have more 'anger' in them explain why prior to the 80s they were one of the most popular breeds in the states and yet barely made a dent in the fatalities list (ONE dog in something like 30 years), but after the media started hyping them up as natural born killers they THEN started to represent more in the fatalities list. Prior to the 80s the Rotty and Dobe both featured highly in the fatality list. Contrary to what you say, the Rottweiler still features highly in the US fatality list. Again this is not due to the breed itself but due to the fact that idiots are attracted to them. Don't believe that what you see in the media is unbiased and balanced. They don't report the attacks by other breeds, because it doesn't get such strong reactions from the public. They also completely fabricate scenarios. Remember the horrific attack in VIC 2009 where it was reported that a Pit Bull killed a man's two small dogs and then 'locked' onto his hand for 20 minutes. It was reported that it only let go after the paramedics euthanased it.. all while it was still holding on. There is video footage of the man who's dogs were attacked relaying the story and he explicitly says that HE HELD ONTO THE DOG IN A HEADLOCK for 20 minutes until the paramedics arrived, as he didn't want it to go and injure someone else's dog. No excuse that that poor man lost his dogs, however that is an example of the way the media twists these attacks to get an emotional response from the general public. It was as a result of that attack that these laws we are seeing now were rushed through. They were already there, the government has now just added the visual identification and the cross breeds, and shortened the amnesty.

That is interesting regarding the excess animals permits Cosmolo. I wonder if all councils will bring this in. I hope so. Maybe they are trying to cut down the workload in other dog areas because of all the extra work involved in the new RB laws. I think you may have hit the nail on the head there Sumosmum. The time and cost to Councils will be absolutely enormous.

I can't thank Dju enough for her help, she is going to get the website together for us. None of us are skilled in this area so by having Dju doing it we will be able to get it out to the public much faster and it will be much, much higher quality than anything we could produce.

Hi Zara, The subject is much deeper and more involved than you can imagine, much more than I can type here. If you are genuinely interested in learning why it isn't what it seems I highly recommend you read 'The Pit Bull Placebo' by Karen Delise. On this page there is a link to where you can download a free copy of the book: http://www.fataldogattacks.com/ The few comments I will make is that prior to the 1980s the Pit Bull was one of the most popular dog breeds owned, especially by families. In a 30 year time span leading up to the 80s there were something like (this is off the top of my head so is only a ball park figure) 40 fatal attacks by dogs.... ONE was attributed to a Pit Bull. The 'super predator' dog of the time was the Dobermann, prior to that the GSD, and prior to that back in the 1800s it was the bloodhound. You may not be aware that the GSD was banned for importation into Australia for almost 40 years. In the mid 70s dog fighting was made a crime and as such a few years later there were a lot of highly televised 'busts' of dogfighting rings and the brutality within. The media went wild showing footage of trained fighting dogs tearing each other to shreds and started spreading the message of these 'dangerous dogs'. This began to instill a primal fear of these types of dogs into people and also simultaneously made the breed very attractive to thugs and lowlifes who wanted a dog that people would be intimidated by. More people bred them irresponsibly and more people bought them irresponsibly and they began to represent themselves higher in the fatality lists for this reason (and simultaneously the previous 'super predator' the Dobermann was represented less). That is the briefest version I can give. I highly recommend you read the book. It is well written, compelling and fascinating.

We can't aim our approach on individual incidents. Plenty of people have been attacked by non restricted breeds. If we took the approach of 'If a dog breed attacks someone, we will ban that breed'. There would be no dogs left. While our hearts go out to anyone that has been attacked by any breed, the science says that restricting or killing dog breeds do not significantly reduce the incidence of dog bites on a whole in the community. To ignore the models that DO significantly lower attacks does a disservice to Ayen's family and any other person that has been affected by an attack.

Dju if you've got talents in that area then certainly help is welcomed as we don't!! LOL. At the moment I'm just fiddling around on Weebly which makes it quite easy luckily, but if you have any suggestions they are welcomed.

That is good to know :D

Zara, we can never know if that particular specific scenario could have been different if a different breed of dog was owned. What we do know, through plenty of scientific literature and examples from other countries that have enacted BSL, is that it does not significantly reduce the incidence of bite rate/attacks/fatalities in the community. Not only does this literature exist, but there are also Animal Management models such as those used in Calgary, Canada which DO significantly reduce bite rate/attacks/fatalities. These models have no breed specific legislation. All of these subjects will be discussed in detail at the rallies so if you are able to attend I strongly recommend it.

Hi Erny, Yes Brad is organising the VIC rally, we have all been in discussions with each other a lot though as we are wanting to keep them as uniform as possible and all share ideas to get the best possible outcome. Yes if it's outside Parliament house on a Saturday you're right, it won't be heard by the pollies and there won't be much foot traffic from the general public. I don't know Melbourne too well but maybe it's worth making it in a busier area? I can't imaging we'd be changing the date this close and we're already a bit worried about numbers so making it a weekday would possibly affect that even more. Sydney is in a busy park where there should be lots of passers by who should hopefully stop to listen. Even if we wanted to do it in front of Parliament House there's no room, it's literally a footpath then a road.

Yup that's correct Sumosmum, a number of other states are also holding rallies on the same day, there is a link in the OP to the facebook page. We're hoping to have a basic website set up on Monday to then promote the rally to those who do not have facebook. We have had confirmation from RSPCA NSW and the AVA that they would like to be involved, and are now just waiting on finding out how much of an involvement that will be. We've also contacted Clover Moore and we're waiting to hear back. ETA: We really need everyone to help us out with promoting these rallies as it's so important that we get the numbers up. If anyone with facebook could share it would be much appreciated.

Thanks for that Sandgrubber. There is also a link in the first post. Hi juice, we are hoping to get a website up and running on Monday for people who don't have facebook, so that should help, but until then all the info on the NSW (Sydney) rally is in the same post. We have had confirmation from RSPCA NSW and the AVA that they would like to be involved, and are now just waiting on finding out how much of an involvement that will be. We've also contacted Clover Moore and we're waiting to hear back. ETA: We really need everyone to help us out with promoting these rallies as it's so important that we get the numbers up. If anyone with facebook could share it would be much appreciated.

Oh my god.. I feel absolutely sick to my stomach. This is so disgusting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh Lennox baby..... Everyone fought for you.

Hi all, Final edit on the mission statement after conversing with Brad who is running the Melbourne event. We're very happy with it now and it won't be edited further. Next step is confirming speakers (we are waiting to hear back at the moment), setting up a webpage that can be accessible for people that don't have facebook, and hopefully getting this in the media as much as possible. Dogs in the Community – a rally against BSL and for improved Companion Animal Practices in Australia. Recent media attention regarding canine aggression and dog bite incidents in the community has once again brought issues such as Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) and companion animal management practices to the forefront. A rally addressing these issues and the continuing failure of government to adequately address community safety and/or canine welfare is being held at Belmore Park (opposite Central Station), Sydney on October 22, 12- 3pm. Who is this rally for? Anyone, not just dog owners, who is interested in the issues regarding dogs in the community. In particular, matters of: • Community Safety - The current measures taken by government categorically fail to make the community safer, continuing to put the general public at risk, despite proven solutions being available. • Breed Specific Legislation - All available scientific literature proves BSL ineffective, and academics and Subject Matter Experts (SME’s) universally acknowledge that BSL does not make communities safer from dog bite incidents. • Animal Welfare - World class, science-driven animal management strategies are in use in many areas of the world. These areas enjoy not only extremely low incidences of dog bites, but animal destruction rates that are considered “No Kill” (>10%). • Social Progress – Policies such as BSL are 25 years behind other countries in terms of providing a solution that most advantages the community. • Responsible Guardianship - How do we encourage and ensure responsible dog guardianship? • Tax Payers - Citizens who want their taxes spent efficiently and effectively, in the best interests of their communities, ought to be alarmed at the current state of affairs. Proven self-funded models are available to make the public safer while simultaneously improving animal welfare. Our keynote speakers will address these topics in detail from various perspectives. Can I bring my dog to the rally? Dogs who serve the community, such as assistance dogs and police dogs, undergo extensive training in order to be behaviourally reliable in crowded situations. A rally is an unfamiliar, potentially challenging/stressful environment for many dogs, which could lead to unexpected behaviours. Therefore, whilst we all love our dogs and would like them to attend, ONLY dogs that have been invited by the organisers prior to the event are to attend. These dogs will act as representatives of all dogs in the community. Your support of, and compliance with, this decision is sincerely appreciated by all who will attend the rally. This is a Peaceful Rally! It is important that the majority of Australians are given the opportunity to identify with our messages as non-threatening and in the best interests of Australian society. This rally is based on peaceful protest and intelligent debate. It is an alcohol-free event and the organisers ask all participants to refrain from disruptive behaviour, including abusive language. We understand why some owners of particular breeds/types of dogs that are being targeted by the media feel frustration and anger, however, we also understand that the general public – who have been fed a diet of misinformation, media hysteria and political rhetoric – cannot be expected to join us in a call for change unless we engage with them in a positive and productive fashion. Banners and Signs are encouraged, however the language and phrases used must be chosen carefully (spelling is important!). Slogans such as “Ban Stupid People, Not Dogs” have the potential to create division rather than cooperation. Slogans along the lines of those in the list below are welcome: “Consult the Experts” “Deed Not Breed” “Breed Specific Legislation - Science Disagrees” “Breeds Don’t Make Bad Dogs, People Make Bad Dogs” “Education Not Discrimination” “Breed Specific Policy Fails the Public” “BSL = Epic Fail” “Honour Ayen’s Memory – Protection Through Good Policy” “Media Driven Policy = Failure” “Science + Education = Public Safety” “Scientists Agree: Abolish Poor Policy” “Our Kids Deserve Better” “End BSL, Save Human Lives” “Science + Research = No BSL” How can you get involved? As well as attending on the day, if you wish to donate time or resources to the rally, please email us briefly, outlining how you wish to contribute. Please include in the subject line of your email: your state, followed by ‘HELP AVAILABLE’ and your name, e.g. “NSW, HELP AVAILABLE John Jones” Please send email to: [email protected]

Hi all, Final edit on the mission statement after conversing with Brad who is running the Melbourne event. We're very happy with it now and it won't be edited further. Next step is confirming speakers (we are waiting to hear back at the moment), setting up a webpage that can be accessible for people that don't have facebook, and hopefully getting this in the media as much as possible. Dogs in the Community – a rally against BSL and for improved Companion Animal Practices in Australia. Recent media attention regarding canine aggression and dog bite incidents in the community has once again brought issues such as Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) and companion animal management practices to the forefront. A rally addressing these issues and the continuing failure of government to adequately address community safety and/or canine welfare is being held at Belmore Park (opposite Central Station), Sydney on October 22, 12- 3pm. Who is this rally for? Anyone, not just dog owners, who is interested in the issues regarding dogs in the community. In particular, matters of: • Community Safety - The current measures taken by government categorically fail to make the community safer, continuing to put the general public at risk, despite proven solutions being available. • Breed Specific Legislation - All available scientific literature proves BSL ineffective, and academics and Subject Matter Experts (SME’s) universally acknowledge that BSL does not make communities safer from dog bite incidents. • Animal Welfare - World class, science-driven animal management strategies are in use in many areas of the world. These areas enjoy not only extremely low incidences of dog bites, but animal destruction rates that are considered “No Kill” (>10%). • Social Progress – Policies such as BSL are 25 years behind other countries in terms of providing a solution that most advantages the community. • Responsible Guardianship - How do we encourage and ensure responsible dog guardianship? • Tax Payers - Citizens who want their taxes spent efficiently and effectively, in the best interests of their communities, ought to be alarmed at the current state of affairs. Proven self-funded models are available to make the public safer while simultaneously improving animal welfare. Our keynote speakers will address these topics in detail from various perspectives. Can I bring my dog to the rally? Dogs who serve the community, such as assistance dogs and police dogs, undergo extensive training in order to be behaviourally reliable in crowded situations. A rally is an unfamiliar, potentially challenging/stressful environment for many dogs, which could lead to unexpected behaviours. Therefore, whilst we all love our dogs and would like them to attend, ONLY dogs that have been invited by the organisers prior to the event are to attend. These dogs will act as representatives of all dogs in the community. Your support of, and compliance with, this decision is sincerely appreciated by all who will attend the rally. This is a Peaceful Rally! It is important that the majority of Australians are given the opportunity to identify with our messages as non-threatening and in the best interests of Australian society. This rally is based on peaceful protest and intelligent debate. It is an alcohol-free event and the organisers ask all participants to refrain from disruptive behaviour, including abusive language. We understand why some owners of particular breeds/types of dogs that are being targeted by the media feel frustration and anger, however, we also understand that the general public – who have been fed a diet of misinformation, media hysteria and political rhetoric – cannot be expected to join us in a call for change unless we engage with them in a positive and productive fashion. Banners and Signs are encouraged, however the language and phrases used must be chosen carefully (spelling is important!). Slogans such as “Ban Stupid People, Not Dogs” have the potential to create division rather than cooperation. Slogans along the lines of those in the list below are welcome: “Consult the Experts” “Deed Not Breed” “Breed Specific Legislation - Science Disagrees” “Breeds Don’t Make Bad Dogs, People Make Bad Dogs” “Education Not Discrimination” “Breed Specific Policy Fails the Public” “BSL = Epic Fail” “Honour Ayen’s Memory – Protection Through Good Policy” “Media Driven Policy = Failure” “Science + Education = Public Safety” “Scientists Agree: Abolish Poor Policy” “Our Kids Deserve Better” “End BSL, Save Human Lives” “Science + Research = No BSL” How can you get involved? As well as attending on the day, if you wish to donate time or resources to the rally, please email us briefly, outlining how you wish to contribute. Please include in the subject line of your email: your state, followed by ‘HELP AVAILABLE’ and your name, e.g. “NSW, HELP AVAILABLE John Jones” Please send email to: [email protected]