mita

A man who was working in a produce store once told me how he did flea-control for his 2 blue heeler dogs. He said he'd take them for a swim in salt water every afternoon on his way home from work. And just let them dry off naturally, after a few shakes & runs. He reckoned there was nothing like salt water for keeping fleas at bay. Yet he worked in a store that stocked all kinds of flea treatments!

Evidence? All around me. Meet them constantly and given the shite start most get in life, they are nice dogs. Any assumption that its the DOGS that are the problem with pet shop sales has their eyes fastened firmly on the wrong end of the issue. Dogs are the victims in this trade, not the problem. That's what's called anecdotal evidence. The puppies being sold in pet stores are of unknown origin, to the potential pet buyer. The origin of puppies from their genetic make-up to extent of early socialisation, is critical information for that buyer re what they'll be taking home to 'work with'. But pet stores do not routinely disclose that information (in the form of documented evidence) for puppy-buyers to make informed decisions on. Yet one source of supply is known to be puppy-farming conditions, where problems of that kind are more prevalent. Without detailed knowledge of background, buyers have no idea if that's the source of the puppy they're buying. So this is one valid issue to bring up re purchasing puppies from pet stores. No one is making blanket statements that all dogs will later present with problems. Given that not all the puppies will have come from similar sources.

Evidence?

Or simply ask to be supplied with documented evidence of where a puppy you're 'interested' in buying, comes from. What is the name & address & contact details of the breeder. Point out the scientific evidence (from UQ) that, how a puppy is raised in its first weeks, is critical to how it turns out later as a pet. So, when buying a pet, you must know this information. And, as the shop is selling the puppies as pets, they need to supply the means of finding out how that puppy was bred/raised & in what conditions for the mother dog. RSPCA Qld advice would back your question: Never buy an animal bred in a puppy farm. See what information you get....or do not get. Not just someone's word... actual documented evidence is what a pet buyer needs.

Good on you, Nic, for pointing Sandy to someone who could provide what she asked for. Excellent choice, Denise from PAWS. Sandy, I wonder if you would include the critical factor of where the puppies in pet shops have come from? 'Puppy farming' is one known source. Where puppies are bred from dogs that have no other life than to be bred from. And with no other aim than to sell the puppies for the highest price possible. There's strong evidence that puppies' early weeks even before they get plonked into a pet shop window are very important for how they'll grow into companion pets. They need to be socialised from the very beginning, handled caringly. They also need to have mother dogs that are socialised, too, because puppies learn from their behaviours. This is not a matter of warm fuzzies, it's a matter of brain development. There's scientific evidence that puppies who do not get this required start in life, are more likely to have the kind of behaviour problems which later get them dumped in a pound or euthanased RSPCA Qld strongly advises people to never buy a puppy bred in puppy-farming conditions. Yet puppy-farming exists to supply puppies to the public. And customers have no direct evidence of where & how the puppies for sale, have been bred/raised.

'We' = those who want to join. There's nothing stopping those folk doing that.

Seems to me there's a reactionary movement going on. Naming worst case scenarios (real & imagined) & then wanting to build something new based on that. The opposite is being progressive & naming best case scenarios (real & desired) and growing & developing them. Within the existing system. As a pet-owner who's stepped thro' the consumer issues of getting purebreds as pets, I've seen enough to come out in favour of the progressive. Ironically, many years ago when I had no idea how to find a purebred dog, the information on how to start, came from RSPCA Qld. They told me (& the public) that you could phone QCCC & ask for a contact list of registered breeders. And to suss out if the dogs were kept/ treated humanely, socialised & health a priority. That was actually when we wanted a sheltie. By happenstance, we found a lost sheltie in awful condition & the university of qld vet told us to contact the Shetland Sheepdog Club of Qld. One of the best moves ever. I met a couple of the the committee members who, by just doing what they do to such a high level, gave me the best education on what makes a good registered breeder. One was a science teacher & by golly did she have the 'smarts' on genetics & health & conformation issues. The other impressed me with her care for the welfare of the dogs & their maintenance. They're still on that committee! So, when much later, we became interested in getting a tibbie, I had a track & models for finding good registered breeders. And found them. Quite a few, in fact. Far more than anyone dodgy. Those 'good' registered breeders I've met have been & are, within the existing system. They've set up & maintain cooperative ways of developing their breeds.

The Tibetan Spaniel registered breeders have an International TS Working Party on health. Info on the international site. Menu on right, is even more specific. There's the kennels listed country by country. http://www.tibbies.net/itswp/ This site is accessible to all, registered breeders, pet owners & potential pet owners. There's a Tibetan Spaniel Global Village Forum on the site where anyone can ask questions. Even on general health matters. Recently, my tibbie, Annie, had a puzzling bowel upset that came suddenly & wouldn't go away. Checking for any sign of typical chronic bowel conditions was easy. No such conditions in depth & breadth of her pedigree. In fact, that helped vets in diagnosing the problem. Turned out to be a food intolerance triggered off by a dodgy treat. But the advices re diet from australian & international breeders (& some DOLers!) led to recovery. My Annie's kennels are listed on that TS health working party of registered breeders (she originally came from Sweden). With contact details.

Way back at time of getting our first p/b Tibetan Spaniel, I knew no registered breeders in that area. I phoned Dogs Qld (then QCCC), asked for a list of breeders with contact numbers. They gave them to me & I started calling around. An interesting & satisfying experience. When time was arranged to talk, each breeder gave me heaps of information (on the phone &/or at a dog show to which they'd invited me). I was also well aware they were looking for an assessment of me as a pet owner. Full marks to them for doing that! It went from that point, to finally getting a superb little dog from one breeder. Since then, I've become even more acquainted with the Victorian & NSW Tibbie breed clubs, as well as the International site where people (registered breeders, owners & potential owners) can talk with each other. This has led to knowing, very well, a number of breeders. The overwhelming majority I have the greatest respect for. Now, the DOL purebred community pages give superb support for people looking for purebred pets. I'm impressed with the entries from many tibbie breeders because they reflect knowledge & good practice about what are the the most important factors which go into raising a true companion dog. These are the routes I recommend to people looking for a Tibbie. If they track through what is a very accessible & generally welcoming route, they'll be led to some excellent registered breeders & to great little dogs.

Feistylady, I'm sorry about your loss. Good, realistic advice there from Jed. If I were thinking of getting a Cav puppy, I'd be listening to her general advice. Best wishes in your search.

When our neighbours go away, they just pop their tibbie, Lily, over the fence. Lily runs up & 'knocks' at our back door. When they owned their first tibbie, Brockie, they'd do the same on a very hot day. We had air-conditioning. So they'd pop Brockie over the fence & say, 'Air-conditioning, Brock!'. And up he'd come to 'knock' & enjoy. Here's Lily, then Brockie:

That attitudes makes us owners into Tibbie Tragics. They've got this intelligent focus that goes with it. I've just told someone about the one time our 2 tib girls got out. Tradie left 2 gates open. I got a phone call from a Day Care Mum down the road. The tib girls had headed to her house, 'knocked' on the door & were welcomed in. Tibbies & children were in Cuddle Heaven. Little wretches had headed for lots of loving & knew where to find it. Here's a pile of Tibbies, all in a row. From the Tibetan Spaniel Association of Victoria Birthday Calendar. Casper looks a bit like the wee fella, on far left:

If you have time, there's a good read about early desexing issues in both dogs & cats. Report prepared by university of qld vet school staff for the Qld Dpt of Primary Industries in 2008. Report on the Validity & Usefulness of Early Age Desexing in Dogs & Cats. Professor Jacquie Rand & Corinne Hanlon http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/15309finalreport.pdf

Casper's gorgeous. He's a parti-colour & he's got the precious Buddha marks above his eyes. I'm not surprised about his confidence. Tibbies are famous for that attitude! I love the pic of The 3 Amigos! Do you mind if I copy it on to my desktop?

That was a brilliant bit of good dognapping. And good owners for supplying contact details on the collar. Now...if only they'll pick up the phone. I hope they shower you with Danishes as a reward.

I don't know the people at these Qld kennels personally, but I often go sneak a look at their website. They show/ breed rotties, cavs & tibbies and make a point that all their dogs are loved family members, and puppies are raised in-home. The pics of their dogs interacting are delightful. Big Zack the rottie is a good baby puppy minder. He also teaches a cute tibbie boy, Pippin, how to do the boundary checking. The tibbie obviously hero-worships his big mate. I very much like the way these dogs get socialised with each other...size not a big deal. And how they're loved by their owners, as a 'family'. http://www.cavalrite.com/documents/38.html A few of the registered tib breeders I've met, have one other breed. One also has rotties. A couple also have cavs. Like showdog said, there are breeders who go outside a main breed but are also wonderful in how they do it.

Also just out of interest. Behavioral issues loom behind dogs getting dumped in pounds & shelters & a staggering number PTS. So 'doing things' relating to 'better' behaviours in shelters & pounds, will help improve rehoming rates. UQ research, again: The best shelter is a humane community Caitlin Logan, a veterinarian with 10 years experience in private practice, began her PhD research at the Centre this year to discover which shelter practices are most effective at reducing euthanasia and increasing the re-homing rates of unwanted dogs and cats. “Some shelters are euthanising 96% of cats, and others are much more successful in rehoming and only euthanise 40%,” Caitlin said. “Similarly, euthanasia rates in shelters for dogs can vary from more than 50% to less than 20%. What I want to discover, is which shelter practices really make a difference and can be readily implemented.” After completing her research she will provide the results to shelters and pounds which, because of limited resources, are often unable to research new methods. “Making small changes such as providing a box for a cat to hide in, or insisting that dogs sit quietly when staff enter runs to feed or clean, seems to make a big difference to euthanasia rates,” Caitlin said. The research project will involve as many shelters as possible, and so far she has collaborated with individuals from the RSPCA, Animal Welfare League, Monash University in Melbourne and SPCA in Canada.

I had no problem with the CCAH site. In fact, just got the above material from there.

Out of interest. UQ now gives 5th year vet students a series of lectures on this very real problem. From UQ's CCAH site: New breed of vet In a first for Australia, six lectures on Urban Animal Management were introduced into the fifth year of UQ’s veterinary science course, to increase our future veterinarians’ awareness and understanding of the unwanted companion animal problem, to highlight why they should care and what they can do to make a difference. Emma Wells, a fifth-year veterinary student, has become very passionate about this issue and chose this area for her final-year essay. “The lectures by Professor Rand highlighted the problem for students – and it is such a big problem. The fact that euthanasia is the leading cause of death in our companion animals is extremely upsetting,” Emma said. “The program not only brought this to our attention, but by demonstrating the characteristics of the animals that are going into shelters, it has helped us, as future vets, to be aware of risk factors for relinquishment.” “We can incorporate this knowledge into our veterinary careers by educating pet owners and our colleagues on these important issues, for example, desexing, behaviour problems and owner expectations, and hopefully end up with a better outcome for our pets and our communities". The Centre for Companion Animal Health played a leadership role in the program being incorporated into the veterinary science course.

Euthanasia of homeless dogs & cats is leading cause of death in companion animals in Australia. So says info on UQ's CCAH website. That would break down into what was the leading cause for a dog to be surrendered. http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/index.html?page=76187&pid=0 I can't find a reference anywhere, but I once read that the leading cause for young dogs to be surrendered was behaviour problems. That is, in a particular owner's eye. It might well be, for many of these, that owners had unrealistic expectations of how a dog 'should' behave. And no expectations they as owners could or should do any management or training.

If there's some on-going problem with uncontrolled dogs in the area surrounding my home, I wouldn't take my small dogs, alone, for a walk in those streets at all. And I wouldn't be requiring an elderly lady to try to fight off an attacking dog, whatever she has in her hand. The elderly are in the 2nd most common group for being bitten & attacked by dogs. There's also the risk of falling. I'm so sorry your gran's had those truly awful experiences. Thanks to irresponsible people not controlling their dogs.

The police did a good job. Certainly wasn't a shortage of witnesses.

Do you? http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...redited+breeder Yes, I still do. For the reasons given.

Funny you should say that! I've just been looking at an ad in a magazine for the Pig In Mud door. We want a dog door we can add to the sliding doors out onto the deck. In the picture, the opening is a fair way up & it's a medium size dog going thro' it. My first thought was that it's miles too high for a short-legged tibbie. So I'm pleased to hear that the opening can be modified to sit at the bottom of the frame. That ad would put off many owners of smaller dogs.

This is the hardest thread to read, but also the most loving. There's that point where I know the next step for our dog is misery that won't go away. Breaks my heart to recognise it. But I won't let them suffer. They get held & surrounded by love in their last moments. And always they've been trusting & calm & snuggled in. The time I find appallingly hard, is getting thro' the night before the day of the vet appointment (usually our vet will do it at the home). I just hold them as they sleep.