Bindo

And enlighten me why a dog that is neither DA or HA should have to be kept muzzled and on leash? Because it 'looks' dangerous? Is it really though? BSL is bullshit. All dogs have teeth, all dogs have the capability to bite. Shall we ban anything with teeth then? SecretKei: Bindo I've met dogs of ALL different kinds of breeds that shouldn't be let off lead at a park. What you just described is not breed specific so I don't see your point. I don't own a DA dog but do you seriously think someone with a DA dog gets no joy from their dog? There is a lot more to enjoying your dog than watching it run around with other dogs at a park. No responisible dog owner wants a DA dog but they wouldn't stop loving a dog because it had issues. I'd do what I could to improve them, manage them and keep enjoying life with them in whatever way I could. Well said. A lot of breed descriptions of sight hounds, for example, say never let them off leash except in a fenced area not because they are aggressive but because they might not come back. There are a multitude of reasons why a dog owner might not let their dogs off, but it doesn't stop them being great dogs. Besides og parks are usually a maelstrom of bad doggy manners at the best of times. Most professionals will tell you to avoid them like the plague. Oh and being DA is not the preserve of bull breeds. I've met a fair few DA labs in fact one bit a hole in my dogs face and resulted in an expensive vet visit. You've all missed the point. I did not single out a breed and did not name the breed of dog that attacked me. If a dog (of any breed) is neither HA or DA then of course it should not be muzzled etc - that's why I don't agree with BSL, as I said in my original post. But on the other side, HA or DA dogs of any breed are a problem and there needs to be measures in place to protect the general public, when the idiot on the other end of the lead can't (like in my situation). That dog should not have been walking in public without a muzzle. I reported it to both the police and ranger, but without a name (he wouldn't supply it and as he still had minimal control of his dog I was desperate to get away to safety)there was not much that they could do. Of course, I got the usual story of 'she's never done anything like this before' BS. Sorry, but I just can't see the joy in owning a dog like that. For what it's worth, the dog in question was not a bull breed.

I don't agree with the banning of selective breeds as I don't think it's going to work, but I do agree with better control of aggressive dogs (human and dog aggressive). And in relation to dog agression, that is one thing that I don't understand the appeal of and why people want to own dogs noted for/bred for dog aggression. I think dog aggression is just as dangerous as human aggression. Invariably, people get caught up in dog fights with the possibility of injury, not to mention the harm to the other dog. I was attacked this way, when walking my dog on a lead. A large dog (breed irrelevant), with no provocation, broke a mesh lead and charged me and my dog, knocking me to the ground. All I could see was large white teeth near my head, not knowing if my dog was being ripped apart. We were both very lucky to escape major injury. Perhaps someone here can enlighten me on the joys of owning a dog that you can never let off the leash in appropriate places, and can never interact peacefully with other dogs, as I can't see it.

I'm genuinely shocked at the number. This is a bit off topic, but was there a particular reason the original reference to this paper was for a ten year period in the last century rather than the latest data? If you look a the last ten years, it's not anywhere near as dramatic - halved in fact. No doubt due to better preventative measures such as car, road and driver safety improvements. Multifaceted approach, similar to what is needed in the dog safety situation.

I can tell you for a fact that it pales into insignificance compared with deaths and injuries caused by bicycles. Lets ban those too shall we? ;) Gee, great analogy! Difference is, most bicycles kill their owners (ie the rider), not other people. For the record, I don't agree with banning a breed either as the dickhead owners (who are the fault) will just move onto another breed. However, if the responsible owners here are to save their breed, they need to recognise there is a problem with ownership, get better spokespeople in the media and work with authorities to find a solution, not get on the defensive every time there is an attack. Hi Bindo I have a female bully breed who outgoing & safe, obedient, is a puppy preschool tutor/regulator, an AVA Pet Pep dog, a Certified Therapy dog in hospitals and nursing homes who now has been greenlighted to be assessed as a Children's Reading Program Dog. How do you propose I become a spokesperson? Because here's my problem, the moment I step up and broadcast what she (possibly**) is as a breed of dog, in some states she will be outright stripped from me and killed; others, muzzled in public. Now can you really imagine a Certified Therapy Dog laying next to a child at the childrens hospital in a muzzle? No, so I quietly plod through my little circle of nursing homes, hospitals and primary school halls. I am a responsible owner, and every day my dogs change minds. Be it the old school Lab breeder at one of the nursing homes I visit who now thinks the world of females and fully admits that those "staffy types can actually be alright", or the rather bogany tradie who walks up with admiration in his eyes to my Big Daddy Version of an Amstaff (cropped ears and all) - totally in love with his look (hey, do you breed your dog?) and super impressed with his loose lead walking & obedience skills. As a vet nurse and dog trainer, I can then quietly stress that my male's desexed and the importance of training & socialization - with the added note that if they don't do either of those things, they're a disservice to humanity and their dogs. For some reason, coming from a 51kg chick with a good looking dog makes them "get it". That's the thing, they often listen to me, I come at them as one of them, not an lab/poodle/whatever breeder who is marginalizing them. Anti-BSL people have spokespeople; the AVA (& other int'l bodies), the RSPCA(ditto), and every major kennel club in the world - with the exception of ANKC (but I'm not pointing the finger at any individual member of course) have all made outright statements as to BSL not being a viable solution. But again, why should politicians listen to science and the experts, it's all about media spin. I'm legitamitely asking you Bindo - without defense, without sarcasm. If you were in my position, what would you do? **My female dog is a rescue, so we don't really know exactly what she is. I know her mother, and the kennel she came from, but we don't know sire.. and what good is that supposed to do you in this country? Hi Rep, You sound like the ideal owner (for any dog) and exactly the type of person who should be in the media, getting the message across. The 'sound bite' that was repeated today from a breed representative ( I didn't catch his name) was something along the lines of 'children should never be left unsupervised around dogs' or something similar. In these circumstances, those words should never had been said. Most people on here seem to agree that the problem is at the other end of the leash - well then that's what should be targetted. Perhaps active and visible lobbying by owners/associations whose dogs are in the firing line, for increased penalties and jail terms for people whose dogs (of any size and description) inflict grevious bodily harm on others. Then it becomes an owner's issue rather than a breed issue. Perhaps breed reps were saying this today, but I didn't hear it.

The moment the public and the systems you voted in 'banned' the Pit Bull as part of BSL that same action also removed any possibility of an organised effort to breed 'good PB' (and as a consequence, good PB mixes.) Banning the breed resulted in the banning of good breeders, who otherwise could have set standards in place. In many ways, this is what you get when you have no professional breeders nurturing a breed and leading the way for new breeders to follow. No professional breeders to be very picky about where their puppies go and to whom no professional breeders to defend their breed and bring in new lineage when needed. (Yes there'd be a handful of professional PB breeders, rightly ducking and keeping beneath the radar, but these smart folk aren't going to put their heads up now, they're keeping their good dogs and good lineage underground where they're safe.) Back above ground: Australia created this sealed cesspool of poorly bred pitbull genes + other breeds bred in add-hoc to fill in the void And now Australia reals in horror when all these mixed goodness-knows-what-combinations go running around biting people. Well really, what did you think would happen, when you ban organised registration systems and breeding standards that only professional breeders can put in place and uphold? Yes the naive and daft still continue to believe in breed bans and that you can sweep up genetic footprints with the assistance of your local ranger ... but really. You wanted a breed banned, well applaud BSL. The registered breeders and the breed are gone. But the dogs and their progeny, their mixed progeny, their owners,and their owners who will breed, they still exist. When you brought in BSL you kicked the PB custodians out, so now all you're left with is the nuff nuffs with no knowledge; and their bad dogs and bad dog mixes that noone can tell apart from the good dog mixes. Every dependable breed of dog in Australia that is held in high regard, is this way because of the organised breed club and professional breeders nurturing the breed. Who is the 'you' in this quote?

I can tell you for a fact that it pales into insignificance compared with deaths and injuries caused by bicycles. Lets ban those too shall we? ;) Gee, great analogy! Difference is, most bicycles kill their owners (ie the rider), not other people. For the record, I don't agree with banning a breed either as the dickhead owners (who are the fault) will just move onto another breed. However, if the responsible owners here are to save their breed, they need to recognise there is a problem with ownership, get better spokespeople in the media and work with authorities to find a solution, not get on the defensive every time there is an attack.

Why, no one's bothering on the breed attribution issue. ;) I did, this is what it said: There is a persistent allegation by pit bull terrier advocates that pit bulls are over-represented because of misidentifications or because "pit bull" is, according to them, a generic term covering several similar types of dog. However, the frequency of pit bull attacks among these worst-in-10,000 cases is so disproportionate that even if half of the attacks in the pit bull category were misattributed, or even if the pit bull category was split three ways, attacks by pit bulls and their closest relatives would still outnumber attacks by any other breed.

Mathew, it would be nice if you actually checked the facts before making such assertions. Here, let me help. OMG - a Beagle was responsible for a fatal attack.. and retriever mixes.. ban them!!!! I'd hardly call this the responsibility of the Beagle: Beagle: The fatality was a strangulation caused by tugging on a leash which was around a child's neck. and the retrievers: Golden retriever: One dog responsible for an attack was rabid. Another accidentally strangled Kaitlyn Hassard, 6, of Manorville, Long Island, on 1/24/06, by tugging at her scarf. Might be a good idea for everyone to read the fine print.

Joelle, I'd be very careful with chicken necks and puppies. If your puppy is a hoover, like mine was, there could be problems. She hoovered down one at 14 weeks, with my son and her standing at her side and still managed to choke. Even if you're right there, it can happen in a flash. She was choking for about 30 secs, despite out attempts to get it out, then my son did the heimlich manouvre and the piece went down. Absolutely terrifying. I got her checked out at the vet and even checked her in overnight at a specialist vet, just to make sure she didn't vomit it up and choke again. Very chalky poos for days! Now she's full grown (Mini schnauzer) I use turkey necks as there's no way she can get one of them down in one piece! I know many dogs have no problems, but this was our experience.

Oh no, just saw this thread. So sorry for you Horus, RIP Cleo. I can't believe that you and Springy have lost dogs within weeks of each other! Take care.

Oh no, I'm so sorry Springergirl! I don't often visit Rainbow Bridge, but nearly died when I saw your post. I only 'know' of you and Max through the AFL thread, but was always amused by your stories. I lost my previous boy, Darcy, very unexpectedly and and a relatively early age, so I know exactly how you are feeling. RIP Max, run free with Darcy at the bridge. Take care of yourself SG.

Oh Charmbug, I just saw this - so sorry to hear about your beautiful girl. I remember when you were looking for a MS and I think you contacted me regarding breeders etc. The circumstances sound similar to our Darcy, although he was 8 when he died, from cholangio-hepatitis. Like with your baby, we tried everything to save him and racked up many $$$ in the process, but don't regret it. My heart goes out to you, but can see from another thread that you are well into your search for another pup, so best of luck with that.

Hi there, I can relate to this. My mini schnauzer male was a real wuzz, and at the first few puppy classes was 'Nigel no friends'. After a few weeks he started to join in the fun, but still avoided the more boisterous pups. A good idea is to try to become friends with one of the quieter/smaller pups owner and perhaps suggest a one on one play session outside of puppy school for her to get her confidence up. This worked for us.

You think cicadas are bad - my MS eats those stink bugs that get in the lemon tree. And then comes in and smiles and breathes all over me!

Yes, that's right - I'm the one with the recalcitrant MS, who mentioned DOL the other night. Didn't make it tonight as very late home from work

Hi schnauzermum, boy can I relate to you! Going from a placid male MS (mine died unexpectedly at 8) to a feisty female has been a whole new experience! Mitzi sounds just like my girl at that age. I've found that the best approach, like showdog says, is slow exposure in short spurts. I also found that Lucy tended to be worse around our house (guarding?) but improved once we were in a new street or area, so I used to drive her to another place (quiet park etc) for a little walk. Obedience classes, working around other dogs, has made big improvements too (except when another schnauzer joins the class!), but I know you can't get to them before next year. She's now at the stage where she she's still barky when we just leave the front gate, but settles down once on the walk. Still pulls a bit when she sees people or another dog, but not barking. Good luck, I sympathise, and not sure where you are, but there are great obedience classes on a Tuesday night in Sydney, with a wonderful trainer who specialises in schnauzers. PM me if you want details.

Totally agree with this. I get so mad with people who want to pick up small dogs/puppies all the time and expect the dog to be pleased about it every time. I bet they wouldn't pick up a mastiff or similar sized dog every time they saw it! Different dogs have different personalities and preferences in regard to 'cuddles'. My previous boy was a real snuggle bum who loved to be in someones lap, but my current girl is Miss Indepedent, who's just not into close contact, but happy to lie at your feet. She also will place her feet up or paw people for a pat, but is not into being 'cuddled'.

Sounds as though Diesel has recovered from his recent ordeal! I'm not sure about the dried kangaroo - I know kangaroo meat is low in fat. Can be good for dogs who can't tolerate other types of red meat. As for the pigs ears, I thought they were high in fat, and therefore, I would be very careful in giving them to a MS, as this breed is prone to pancreatitis. Will be interested in others thoughts. Now where are the recent photos??

Glad to hear Diesel is on the mend - he has had MAJOR surgery and of course won't be back to his normal self for a while. After Lucy was desexed, she was very sore and sorry for herself and sulked for days - don't think our breed has a high pain threshold. Madam even stops dead when she has a bindi anywhere near her foot! Maybe try some sardines mashed in with mince or chicken - most dogs love the taste and smell and of course, with a schnauzer, you will have fishy breath, courtesy of the beard!

Fantastic news!!! So pleased that Diesel is much better.

Ooh, he's so cute! Glad to hear that he is improving and yes, after any major open surgery it takes a while for the bowels to start working again and accept food, so this sounds normal. Hopefully he will soon be back to being a typical schnauzer and eating eveything on offer. Fingers crossed for a full recovery.

Thanks, I think she's pretty special (as does she!) She's just turned 2, here's a recent photo: Hope you get some good news today on your boy's recovery, all the best.

So sorry to hear that your little MS has been so sick and I hope that he makes a full recovery. Minis can be notorious gutses and will eat almost anything. I would keep his diet soft for quite a while yet and make sure that the dry food is soaked before he eats it. Just a warning, be careful with the chicken necks. My MS choked and nearly died on one when she was around the same age as yours, as she tried to 'hoover' it down all in one gulp. Only some quick thinking from my son saved her. We also had another bone episode 6 months ago when she decided to chew and play at the same time. Now she is only allowed full lamb shanks, with most of the meat off, for a recreational chew and to keep her teeth clean. While it's great to be able to give them bones to keep them occupied, I would be erring on the side of caution for a while yet, and maybe introduce larger, non-swallowable bones when he's a bit older. BTW, can we have some photos please when he's back home safe and sound?

Yep, my first schnauzer. Never dug a hole in his life, toilet trained within 2 weeks of arriving home, could leave him inside with no damage whatsoever, never any complaints of barking from neighbours and learnt very quickly. Can't say the same about the female replacement though! :p

So sorry to hear about your boy Lilypily. My previous boy (8 yr old mini schnauzer) had symptoms and blood tests similar to Doofs. At first they thought it was pancreatitis, but a scan was clear. His liver enzymes though were sky high. He went on a drip, recovered slightly so they fed him and he seemed to be improving. However he crashed the next morning and then went into multi-organ failure, starting with his heart. Despite being in a specialist vet centre and us not sparing a cent, he had a cardiac arrest later that night. The final diagnosis was cholangiohepatitis, but we did not have an autopsy done, so not 100% sure. They told us that sometimes bugs which don't normally trouble dogs when they stay in the digestive tract can sometimes travel up through the bile ducts and cause problems. Schnauzers evidently can be prone to these type of problems with their biliary tracts. I'm not trying to alarm you, but this might give you some more ideas about what is going on. Doof seems to be fighting this, is still quite active, and is not a schnauzer so there are three positive things! Really hope we hear some good news from you soon.