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Princess Fru Fru

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Posts posted by Princess Fru Fru

  1. On 26/03/2022 at 6:33 PM, OzzieLioness said:

    I think a fairer solution, if these people are not scared of the competition (remember, I've never had a reason given - just the "because I said" crap) would be to have it a contractual agreement that should the pup grow to be a show quality animal, it can then be moved to Mains. This could be 'judged' by a mutually agreed judge down the track.

    They don't need to make contracts because this is already allowable.  Dogs on LR can be upgraded to MR (provided they haven't been flagged as "not to be upgraded") and all that's required is the breeder's consent and signature on a form.  It's done often with both entire and neuter dogs if their owners express interest in showing and the breeder deems the dog worthy of putting into the ring -- some breeders will do it regardless of the dog's quality, just to encourage the owner.

    • Like 2
  2. On 24/03/2022 at 2:40 PM, Psycho-Magnet said:

    Who said anything about quibbling?
    I'm asking "what is a FAIR price" that's pretty much the exact opposite of quibbling.


    You've been given plenty of answers, including that "fair price" is not standardised across breeds/breeders etc. but you just didn't like the answer (or it's not what you want to hear).


    No one can tell you what's 100% fair because as I already stated (as have numerous others), it's not a "one price fits all" scenario.  There are some breeds that only produce 1-3 puppies per litter, so would it be a "fair price" for a litter of say 2 puppies be priced at $20k each ($40k "profit") in order to keep up with breeds whose litters average 10 puppies, which can be sold for $4000 each (also $40k profit)?


    I'm fairly certain the general public wouldn't perceive a $20k asking price as "fair" (although you do need to excuse the few idiots who pay that much plus more for "rare Frenchies"), but a breeder of small litter breeds might consider it fair because why should they not make the same kind of profit as other breeders do?

    • Like 1
  3. 11 hours ago, OzzieLioness said:

    Do you happen to know why show quality dogs are put onto a LR - if it costs the same to produce the pups no matter what? I'm not looking for an argument, truly not. I just do not understand the reasoning and it blows my mind not to know :noidea:


    Quite simply it's because breeders aren't using the LR the way in which it was intended.  All puppies should be placed on MR unless they have serious disqualifying faults -- this was the reason behind introducing LR.  If breeders don't want their MR puppies used for ANKC breeding, they are supposed to utilise the "not for breeding" section on the back of the pedigree, which prevents MR dogs' offspring being ANKC registered should someone breed with it (just the same as LR).


    For some reason though, many breeders started thinking that the LR stops dogs being bred and gives them control over what happens with the dog even after sale.  I don't know whether it's a "control thing" or just complete idiocy on their parts for not understanding that a birth certificate (essentially what a pedigree is) is not a contract and therefore once the pup is sold, they have absolutely NO leg to stand on when it comes to what the new owners choose to do.

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  4. Well considering the Distemper vaccine forms part of the C3, it's not like people can pick and choose the diseases to be vaccinated against.  If they want their dog vaccinated against parvo, then by default they're also getting Canine Hepatitis and Distemper at the bare minimum.


    So effectively it comes down to the 2 kinds of people, those who vax and those who don't.

    • Like 6
  5. @Yrie I’d be really careful because the entire scenario surrounding this puppy sale has red flags all over it. I’m worried you’ve potentially purchased a stolen dog. 

    The best thing to do is take the dog to your vet for a microchip check because if the dog has been flagged lost/stolen, the vet will be able to see this on their NSW Pet Registry access. 

    If everything is fine and the dog isn’t flagged as missing, I’d ask the vet to complete the Verification of Existing Microchip (M1) Form for you: https://www.olg.nsw.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Verification-of-Existing-Microchip-M1-Form.pdf


    You can then fill out the Change of Owner Details (C3A) Form and take it all to your local council with a completed Commonweath Stat Dec declaring you are now the dog’s owner and that you are unable to contact the current registered owner for them to sign the transfer over. https://www.olg.nsw.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Change-of-Owner-Details-C3A-Form.pdf


    German Spitz are rare in Australia too so if the dog came from an ANKC registered breeder, they should be able to track down. 

    • Like 6
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  6. 18 minutes ago, FCR4 said:

    Then why bother responding?

    Edited 17 minutes ago by FCR4
    This Place would get Really Tiresome without the IGNORE function


    Oh look, we have a comedian on the forum!


    Seriously, all of your posts since joining have been nothing more than nit-picking breeder dos and don'ts.  This suggests to me that you either have far too much time on your hands, are a nosy, busy-body, have some kind of ulterior motive or all of the above.


    You aren't going to single-handedly introduce a one-price fits all model for puppy buying so again I ask, why all the questions and what concern of it is to you what others are doing? Please explain to the forum how what other breeders are charging plays such a pivotal role in your day to day life.

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    • Haha 2
  7. On 05/03/2022 at 6:40 PM, FCR4 said:

    I'm asking for opinions, especially from Breeders, as to what you would consider to be a fair price.



    I honestly don't understand your question.  Are you saying that the advertised prices *aren't* the breeders' own fair prices?  Considering it's the individual breeder who prices their puppies, logic would state that they're selling for what they themselves deem appropriate hence why there's no static prices across breeds.


    One breeder might deem $4000 a fair price whereas another breeder (same breed) feels their fair price is $4500.  Neither is wrong nor does it mean that one is unreasonably inflating their prices.


    Here's a question for you though.  Why exactly is it of such importance to you to worry about what others are buying/selling for?  If it has little to no bearing on your own existence, just don't go there.

    • Like 6
  8. Part of the issue is that many breeders are elderly and simply haven't kept up with the digital age therefore they aren't social media, email or internet savvy.


    The amount of breeders who have no idea how to even set up a simple and generical "Thank you for your email ..." auto-reply is mind-blowing. It's certainly not difficult to set up something like the following if you aren't planning a litter in 2022: "Thank you for your email.  If you are enquiring about a puppy, please note that we/I am not planning a litter until early/late <insert date>.  We/I will still endeavor to reply to your email as soon as possible.  In the meantime, please feel free to tell us/me a little about yourself, lifestyle, current pets etc. if you haven't already."


    And for those breeders who use an application form, have a link sent in the auto-reply too.  It honestly isn't hard and better than hearing nothing at all.


    To use training as an excuse Anne simply isn't good enough.  If you're breeding puppies and selling to pet owners, it's your responsibility as a breeder to be approachable and accessible especially knowing you're going to be contacted by the general public.  Breeders are supposed to be the guardians of their breed/s and part of this includes promotion, education and discussion -- it's not just mating dogs and whelping litters.


    I completely understand the OP's frustration because honestly, breaking into a super secret society would be easier than breaking the ice with some breeders who have put up impenetrable fortresses around them.

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  9. Sadly I'm finding so many breeders are using the phrase "Covid Puppy" far too often to describe/explain the poor temperaments of their puppies.  If this particular pup was raised inside, it sounds like there has been severely limited expose to the "big scary world" outside.


    There's a huge difference between being aloof and absolutely petrified of the universe and sadly it sounds like this pup is the latter of the two.  IME, puppies that are this terrified rarely become happy, confident and well-adjusted dogs -- sure, they can learn to cope, but it's not the same.


    I'd personally be returning this pup to the breeder.  Puppies should be confident enough to have a far better startle response than what you've explained e.g. clap of thunder unnerves/startles them for a few seconds but then they resume bouncing around as though nothing is wrong.  I also question if the pup has been mollycoddled for most of its life.

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  10. Best thing to do is head to an All Breeds show and hang around the gundog ring. Most likely you’ll find 3 judges who can help you out. 

    Two gundog judges that immediately come to mind are Guy Spagnolo (Labradors) and Shannon Lancaster (English Springers). You can also find a list of all judges on the ANKC website:




    I’m assuming you know you need the form completed, be a member of DNSW and have your dog desexed and on the Associate Register. 

  11. @yvonnelouiseyour friend needs to follow the very clear steps outlined on the Dogs NSW prefix application form as found here:




    Until your friend has a bitch on main register in her name she cannot apply or even commence the prefix programme.  Admittedly the course material is all currently available online so your friend can read and study to prepare for the exam, but until she has a bitch in her name, she cannot go any further.


    If she can find a breeding willing to transfer a bitch into your friend's name for the sake of sitting the prefix exam then have your friend transfer the bitch back this might be the only loophole.


    I didn't think you required a breeder prefix for male-only ownership, just so long as the male is main registered -- you stud out a dog but breed a bitch.

    • Like 1
  12. 11 hours ago, leac1801 said:

    The only thing that doesn't apply to her, is if she is registered with in overseas registry, she doesn't have any import papers as she was born here. All the other registries are for either pedigreed purebreds, or working sheep dogs/BCs/Kelpies/Koolies. I've looked at all the forms and regulations inside and out, but I can't 100% make it out.


    Unfortunately it sounds like she's ineligible for the SR in this case.  Maybe reach out on FaceBook on the Agility Australia page and ask there too -- I'm sure I've seen a SR German Shorthaired Pointer competing in ANKC Agility but can't be 100% certain.


    Aside from being what I call a "title collector", there are many ways to enjoy some of the sports you've listed above -- I've already provided two other non-ANKC agility options. Noseworks you can also compete via non-ANKC through ACSW (Australian Canine Scent Works): https://acsw.com.au/

  13. Actually I believe I found the answer to your question on the Sporting Register application form. It states in the Please Note Section 1 that the application needs to be accompanied by a certified copy of the dog’s registration with one of the kindred bodies I linked to above (UKC is included) and the applicant must be a financial member of Dogs West. 



  14. You need to work out whether your girl meets any of the criteria outlined in the ANKC Regulations Part 6 The Register and Registration Section 6.9 Registration of Sporting Dogs — on Sporting Register (see screenshot attached). 



    The ANKC website also contains a list of recognise sporting bodies here: 




    I guess depending on what sports you’re looking at, you can compete in agility through associations such as:


    ADAA (predominately NSW and QLD) — https://adaa.com.au

    NADAC (VIC based) — https://www.nadacaustralia.com


    Edit: From my very quick read-through, it would appear that UKC registered dogs would be accepted on the Sporting Register with proof of your and your dog’s membership with the UKC. 


    In terms of whether your dog is eligible for UKC registration is a question you’d need to put forward to the UKC. 


    Hope this helps!



  15. I've actually already seen a reply directly from the NSW OLG regarding this exact issue.  The response regarding having to pay the full $213 registration fee for a dog desexed post-6 months old is that the buyer should've been aware of the fees and what they were up for when purchasing the dog.


    I can understand their position because this is how the new fees have been laid out and in a way, it's still only a once-off fee for the entire life of the animal -- I do not want an annual registration fee introduced into NSW.


    The president of Dogs NSW also sent out a lot of misinformation in a Friday weekly update email stating that new owners are required to the pay the difference between the breeder registration fee and the non-desexed/desexed post-6 months fee if they purchase an older ex-breeding dog.  This is completely inaccurate and concerning when the information comes directly from the Dogs NSW president.


    A dog in NSW is registered for its entire life, therefore the only thing that needs updating if the animal is on-sold is the Change of Owner information either via form or online via the NSW Pet Registry website.  Once a dog has been registered, you don't get asked to show proof you're a breeder to maintain the "breeder non-desexed discount", nor are you asked to pay the difference.


    The only time you would be required to pay the registration is if you purchased an older un-desexed or de-sexed post 6 months dog from outside of NSW.  In this case, the dog has NEVER been registered in NSW and is therefore required to have the lifetime fee paid (whatever that amount is).


    I personally don't see why everyone complains so much about paying a registration fee for animals.  It's seriously such a small amount of money that is a once-off fee.  Maybe if you can't afford a once-off, lifetime fee, you should be asking if you can really afford quality pet care because food, vaccinations and health care cost a lot more than one, tiny lifetime fee.

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