Erny

Thanks Steve. Great info. Will follow up on it - ta.

If your boy's skin is irritating him, try giving him a wash using Calendula Tea.

That's my theory, Perse. I think of the 'pendulum swing' - shampoos/chemicals to fix the symptoms, making the pendulum swing way over one way and then to counteract the affect of the shampoos/chemicals altering PH levels (and/or whatever else they do), the system/skin goes into overdrive, swinging the pendulum way the other way, and so it continues. When my boy suffered his first bout of acute hives, I was in danger of switching to panic mode, so wanting to just fix them and not have them itching him. I wanted them gone fast - I hated to see him uncomfortable. The Vet (Dr Bruce Syme) was the one who spoke with me and convinced me not to worry; not to bounce in to using shampoos; and to let the system/skin sort it out. He was the one who suggested the use of Calendula tea wash to help avoid secondary skin infection - explaining THAT was the only concern, not the hives themselves. He told me, IF I had to (ie if my boy was itching to the point of self-harm) I could give him an antihistamine. I purchased the antihistamine and put the packet in the pantry as a stand-by. And I switched into "patience" mode. And I used the Calendula tea. Most of everyone know what I think of Calendula Tea. Great stuff. It helped the hives and his oily, smelly skin/coat. And it was enough to let me let my boy's system work things through, trying to find that balance of the pendulum, to avoid sending it in to exaggerated 'swings' one way or the other. As it turned out, because I held my breath and gave a little time (a couple of days) and saw the Calendula Tea was easing the worst of things, I didn't need to administer the antihistamine. After a year, it still remains an un-opened packet in the pantry - still on "stand-by" should I need to use it on him at all. The washes we use, regardless of what we use, doesn't fix the underlying reason for the skin outbreaks but can help in avoiding the secondary infections that can occur. It's just that something that contains the ingredients that does the job and is minus the manufactured chemical component has got to be better for the skin. We are so conditioned to think that if it doesn't froth, it ain't cleaning. The skin in fact will self clean to a big degree if it is functioning correctly. With my boy's condition I still have need of the Calendula Tea (although to a lesser degree) and I haven't needed to bath him for a full year now. Typically human (conditioned), I initially didn't feel I was doing anything as I wasn't applying something that was labelled as being specifically manufactured for the job. But since then, having seen the good results more natural methods can attain, I've done a fair amount of 'un-conditioning' and I'm very much into using natural treatments that are minus the chemical and potentially-damaging-to-other-things, type treatments, wherever I possibly can. Scruffy n Flea - Regarding worming - I too was a bit uneasy about not worming regularly. With my avatar girl (bless her cotton socks), I was one of those "did everything right" people. I look back now and don't agree that I did everything "right" by her. I wormed every 3 months religiously. She was heartwormed protected (in a climate that doesn't really need it, I now see). She was vaccinated every 12 months. She had flea and mite control (thought the fact she didn't have fleas was because of that - but proven wrong on that count as I don't do this to my boy and he doesn't have fleas). What I do is provide a stool sample to the Vet periodically (no special visit - just when I happen to be seeing the Vet for whatever other reason) and get them to do a worm burden count. It only takes a few minutes and they can give an answer on the spot. So far, no worms evident from that. I'm used to it now - I'm actually more comfortable with the fact that I don't administer worming drugs to my dog on a regular and probably unnecessary basis.

Whenever the lead is on your dog, you are training. But beyond that basic concept, I do use walks as training sessions. Whether that be training to the loose lead; training to sit and drop in different and unexpected places (be that simply along the footpath, for no particular reason). I 'scatter' the 'command' moments here and there - they don't form a majority of the actual walk time, and it is a good way to generalise training. The walk is 'my' walk, but I do permit my dog to take time out for sniffing and sussing out the environment. But I randomise (eg places for sniffing etc) as much as I possibly can. It's my terms.

A good chance the "reason" is the very fact that the older dog is fraught with health issues.

What's the "Board certified" Aloe Vera juice dosage recommendation, Steve? IE How much would be necessary to give to a (eg) 39kg dog on a daily basis to make a difference?

The difference being that the Vet Hospital where Noopy is now DID diagnose the bone and HAVE removed it, and HAVE brought her through the surgery and ARE continuing to watch over her. "Going there to sit with her for an hour or two where she may get upset when you leave" is worse, I think. You need to give leave of the negativity. Noopy won't need that and she certainly would feel your stress if you were to visit her. The Vet Nurse said "Noopy is missing you". The Vet nurse didn't say "Noopy is feeling abandoned and depressed", did she? I suspect the Vet Nurse told you that Noopy is missing you, in part to help you feel better, and not meaning you to embelish further on it by turning it to a negative. I expect that Noopy, who whilst I'm sure will be glad to see you when it is time for her to go home, is more busy trying to recuperate from her ordeal and heal her wounds so that she can come home to you :cool:. ETA: And whilst yes, there are enough bad stories of rotten things that have happened with some Vets, there are also many, many more good stories where through the Vets' expertise, knowledge and caring, animals have been able to recover where without them, they would not have.

I don't do the 'communal drinking bowl' thing and if the walk is such that I think it will demand water access, I take a water bottle - mine has a fold up part on it that serves as a drinking container. I go to this bother ................ and then my dog drinks the water out of the lake when he plunges in for a swim :cool: . Like as if his own private water source is just not good enough. Hhhmph. I'm the one then left lugging the orbee ball; tug; treats; water bottle; spare tennis ball (to throw in lake); poo bags (and potentially at least one full poo bag) back up the hill home again. I reckon he has got me sorted out :D . None of our parks have taps - and if they do, the handles have been removed to guard against vandals or irresponsibles who are likely to turn them on and leave them on. ETA: My water bottle sounds like the one you have, Saxonpup. They are good, although ones that I've seen since I purchased mine years ago are fairly hard to squeeze so if anyone is looking to buy them, squeeze test them a little first.

... Sorry, I bumbled my info. Forget that I was even here, please :cool:

I wouldn't think placement would make a difference to the chemical burning or not burning, either. But I would be concerned about placing it anywhere the animal could lick it off and ingest it. Mind you, I'm concerned about the general over-use of this stuff anyway, no matter what brand. Not suggesting "over-use" (read : unneccessary use) in your case, Carrie - just speaking generally. I used to use Revolution on my avatar girl (now :cool: bless her cotton socks) and whilst it never left any visible scoring on her, she did start to baulk at it being put on. Back then I could never understand why, but in more recent times and with more knowledge on my side, I recognise that it was probably because it caused her discomfort. She was such an honest dog - I feel guilty for the times I didn't listen to her more closely. I hope your cat is ok.

Thanks PF. I never would have guessed it, so I don't feel quite so dumb :cool:.

What's "COI" (I'm sure it's something obvious, but I don't feel like thinking).

Which is possibly a good reason why the other dog attacked with intent to kill. This is instinctual and goes back to pack survival. Yes - there is nothing for it than to keep this older girl separate, no matter how much it might look at times that the dogs are likely to get along or wish to interact as friends.

Really pleased to hear that Ruby has come through fine .... I checked in on this thread late this afternoon and was hoping that it was not because of anything bad - so I'm relieved to hear all is well. Regarding the teeth. I use Colloidal Silver for many different purposes, but one I didn't know of was for keeping teeth clean and gums healthy. My sister's dog (Monty) is 12 or 13yo now (Bearded Collie) and in recent times had to have a few rotten teeth pulled. He had the remaining teeth cleaned also, but the Vet pointed out the gingivitis and suggested using Colloidal Silver to clean them with (using one of those rubber finger tooth brushes for dogs). My sister reports that all the gingivitis has completely cleared up and his teeth are staying clean and his breath doesn't smell anymore. Monty, for whatever reason, has never been into chewing bones, which of course doesn't help the teeth cleaning process. Perhaps the Colloidal Silver tooth brushing might help Ruby as well?

I think your Vets are doing the right thing by keeping Noopy where she is. And I mean no offence by this, but from your written words I get the impression that you are not in a good emotional state for Noopy at the moment. Noopy needs calm, 'matter of fact' (but with kindness) care. I can still hear how upset you are from all of this and that will only serve to apply pressure on Noopy, something she doesn't need at the moment. Your upset is understandable, but when Noopy comes home, you need to be strong enough to put your fears away and stand firm for Noopy. So whilst Noopy is in the hospital, spend the time shoring yourself up and being ready to give Noopy the support and assistance a convalescing dog would need.

I think the poll would be inundated with "yes" responses, Stormie. In my boy's case it seems that his allergies are not contact or food specific related. It seems more that something is disfunctional with his digestive system and toxicity from poor digestion builds up to the point the liver can't deal with it, so the toxicity comes out in the form of hives. When I've read polls/threads about allergies, my boy's situation gets a bit left out.

Even worming (this recalls to memory a seminar Dr Bruce Symes ran) ..... the suggestion is that dogs' systems are designed to cope with a mild worm burden. But we worm religiously (or at least, most people do .... I don't) which means the system is squeaky clean as far as worm burden is concerned. Yet again nothing for the immune system (which is itching - pardon the unintended pun - for a 'job' to do) so it turns onto other things that it might otherwise have ignored for being kept occupied elsewhere, where it would be doing good. That's my 'lay person' way of explaining it - I know there would be much more to it than that and not quite that simplistic.

You're right - I forgot about that concept. But it is in line with the "too clean" concept I raised in my post above. Immune system has nothing to do, so turns on to things that it ordinarily doesn't or shouldn't be turning against.

Also think of this : it is talked about that people are becoming more and more allergic to certain things as well with a causal possibility of it being because they were never exposed to them beforehand. Think of all the flea treatments we use as preventatives .... could it be that for some dogs, the presence of a flea might have a bigger impact because of the dog never having been exposed (and its parents not having exposure, and their parents before that etc). Kind of like the theory about being "too clean and sterile" as in some other countries, and people not coping with bacteria when they are exposed to it. I am not suggesting everyone stop using flea products if they're in an area where fleas are in abundance, but I'm suggesting the above notion just to muse on, as food for thought. I'm also not suggesting it might be the case for every instance either. I remember our family's first dog (in my lifetime) - we didn't have the products we have now to apply to dogs, and commercial food for dogs didn't come along until somewhat later, so dogs were fed predominantly raw/natural foods etc. Yet our labrador suffered terribly with excema from the flea infestation that was ever present on our property. This issue only stopped when we shifted.

Possibly - but why did those dogs have skin issues and immune deficiencies? Might have started as "just one of those things" but I think we need to consider what we're doing and what affects it is having on the evolution of our dogs, from one generation to the next, before, during and after conception.

I can only give my thoughts, based on things I've read/heard etc. Yes - I believe the incidences of allergies goes back to a weakened immune system. Things such as all the chemicals we apply and administer to our dogs. Vaccinations, flea/tick/mite controls (often not for any real need). All the processed foods we feed our dogs. And I don't think this merely relates to the individual dog at the time. I think it goes back through the generations and what the bitch who brought our individual dogs into this world was on and like. And her parents before that. And so on. I also think we bombard our dogs too often with drugs that are not perhaps as immediately necessary as some think. And shampoos as well as other chemically based substances such as nice smelling scents (nice to us, that is) that we spray on the dogs. And so forth. No wonder the immune systems are stressed and weakened. I also think that there are many things that we can't control as well, such as pollutants in the air. A bit too difficult to escape them. But we can do something about the other of what I've mentioned.

Thinking of her, LM and hoping for the best possible outcome on all the 'fronts' that you've mentioned. What time is surgery?

If it is of any help to you to know, my avatar girl (bless her cotton socks) underwent 3 surgeries - the first, she was under for 4 hours. She was in a weakened state due to not having eaten for 3 days - hydrated by means of a drip. (In her case, the reason why it took 3 days was due to Vet failure/error.) The second, she was under for 2 or 3 hours and she was in a weakened state (peritonitis). The third, she was under for an hour or so (from memory). This was all inside the space of about 5 weeks. She came through them. Won't say it was great for her and yes, it is a concern and a risk .... but the point is, she made it. You should speak with the Vet with your concerns. If you are visibly upset and show this to Noopy, it won't help her and sometimes it is hard for dogs to have their owners come and go - it isn't very settling. In my case, my girl came home with me each time, but as I mentioned, there was a bit of a different story with me, my dog and the Vet involved, in addition to the fact that the dogs were left unattended at the surgery over night.

Sounds to me that Noopy is a real trooper - I'm so glad she came through this part of the ordeal with some improvement to her condition. The fact that she is up, walking around and is calm and comfortable is an excellent sign. I expect the Vet needs to be sure that no necrosis (I think that's the word I'm looking for .... tissue dying) develops at the part of the oesophagus that has been affected, so whilst we know that the less GA's the better and that there's always a risk that goes with them, this is likely to be one of those times where a close eye is required to ensure early medical intervention if it does occur and that might outweigh the risk of GA. I would also imagine that Noopy's blood count will have increased by that time and that consequently, anaemia might not be as much of an issue as it was at the time of this emergency procedure. But yes, speak with the attending Vet as he/she will be the best to explain things to you. It would be silly of me to say not to worry as that is impossible, but at least Noopy is under Veterinary care - sounds to me as though she is in the right place. The place where you have her do sound as though they are giving her the best of care and are not blind to the complications that can occur in these situations, and are doing their best to guard against it. There are many people thinking of Noopy at this time, so if good thoughts have anything to do with it, Noopy should be well enough and home with you in next to no time. You need to sleep as well as you might, as Noopy is going to need you when she comes home. For Noopy's sake, you need to stay positive. She needs those vibes from you right now, not negative ones.

What does anyone use as a hand signal for stand (say, from a sit or drop), when you're at a distance?