Erny

The first thing I'd be 'self-investigating' if I were you (short of getting someone over to help you check this) is YOUR leadership to the dogs. I always start there, because no matter what else you do, if you don't have this respect and trust that you will look after all matters of concern, your dog is going to lack the confidence that safety net provides. Next thing I'd do is treat things matter of fact. Calm and assertive. And not make a big deal about people having to pat or approach your dog when she is around people. Expose her to unfamiliar people, but just don't overly push the point. I wouldn't even suggest that the visitors try to offer Jodie any food treats. Unless people realise what they're doing, when and how, it is a risk that instead of building a positive relationship, it might well be serving to reinforce Jodie's fearful behaviour. It is often better if you simply ask your visitors to ignore Jodie completely. Even if that happens to be for the whole of their visit. If Jodie calmly and confidently approaches (and assuming the visitors don't mind this) then let her - but until that 'calm/confident' behaviour is more regular, ask the visitor/s to continue to ignore her. I may be inclined to use crate training, and thus a crate, to help Jodie out. It will provide her with a place for her to be in which she feels safe, yet simultaneously allows her to 'view' the goings on in situations such as you having visitors. It also has a degree of preventing fearful behaviour from being exhibited (eg. running away; ducking behind things) and shows Jodie that doing so has absolutely nothing to do with her survival. Of course, when Jodie is in her crate, give her some space so she can feel comfortable about everything that's happening around her. Crate training is also a good way of being able to control what visitors do with your dog. Avoid allowing Jodie to help you 'greet' people at the door. I always make it a 'rule' that dogs who live with me stay behind me when I open the door. For any who sport an 'issue' with stangers, they are kept even further back - to a distance where 'coping' is possible but if possible where the dog can see what's going on (ie not necessarily isolated). The majority of bitches I have personally worked with have been desexed or at least not in season so I cannot lay claim to having witnessed a great deal of change of behaviour due to being in season. But it is possible. I do believe that this sort of change of behaviour is hormonally related though - I think entering 'maturity' has much to do with it and also that recognition of your leadership may no longer be 'unconditional' as it might have been when she was a pup. Second fear impact period should also remain a consideration. Hope this helps you a bit, CB. There's only so much I can suggest over the internet. Feel free to contact me though if you need more assistance though. Cheers! Erny

Already on it, Tess. Has been for the last 3 days. Cheers! I agree that I have been 'worrying' (and was particularly concerned when I gave him his very first tab). Was more wondering why "daily" but seems you've cleared that one up for me by suggesting to not think in terms of the 6 month mozzie cycle. Thanks . I know. I'm very conscious of it at the moment. Hopefully it will settle down to a matter of 'habit' but not so mindlessly as to provoke a forgetful moment.

When I got my second dog (he was 6 months old), the vet insisted on doing a heartworm test before giving the C5. I know better than to ever look at C5s again now - but just went along with what the vet said at the time as they said ANY heartworm prevention was dangerous if your dog had already been infected. What does a heartworm test cost generally - does anyone know? I can't remember 'coz the dog at the time was a rescue and all the vacs came included in his 'package'. AF The "C5" vaccination has nothing to do with heartworm, so I'm not sure what, how or why your Vet made any correlation or mention of one bearing significance to each other.

Sorry Tess32. I'm either really thick (which is possible) and not 'getting' your explanation (and to which I thank you for trying to resolve my query) ..... but that means that Mandela could have already been infected and that giving him the daily tabs (which I have been for the past 3 days) is/was dangerous. So why the "up to 6 months of age" recommendation/suggestion? Why not "from the get go"? I'm sorry if I'm not making the point of my query very clear.

Thanks Tess32. That makes sense. But what about any infestation that (in my instance) pup might have had before I commenced the tabs? I started him on them before he was 6 months old. But it's the "it's ok if he isn't yet 6 months old" part that I think is causing me my confusion. ETA: Actually - I'm not sure that that does make sense. If the daily tabs "don't work backwards" then it wouldn't be quite as critical to blood test an older dog first ...... would it?

Not so much from the nutritional side of things (although it doesn't hurt) but from the "needs something to chew on but already had enough meat/bones today" point of view, if you can get your pup interested in gnawing on a carrot, it is really handy. I use carrots and apples (un-pureed) as treats if I feel pup is needing something to occupy him or to take him through those hungry moments (if necessary). Same for beans and other vegetable types. My good friend reminded me of this stuff and has helped me out a lot with ideas of the variety of vegies that dogs can have. The carrot and apple has been a godsend though .

Hhhhmm. Not arguing with you - just voicing my puzzlement. I'm sure you're closer to the 'mark' than what my thoughts are. If what you say is kind of right though, it would mean that the 6 month cycle of mozzie's has no bearing and that any pup even born inside the mozzie season should begin to receive the medication from day dot. Sorry Alison. I know you're trying to help answer my query so I don't want to sound as though I'm debating this with you. Only to express that it still isn't making sense to me and the direction it is taking my thoughts in.

Thanks Alison. No - he's only almost 5.5 months of age. In addition to which, mozzie season only started about a month ago. That's what I don't quite get. It is ok to start provided it is before the 6 month old mark, because of the mozzie cycle. Yet it has to now be daily until mozzie season is past. I obviously am simply not understanding the whole thing very well, but it does have me puzzled.

Oh .... found a list. Refer to Zoonosis - Wikipedia

Anthrax, I think.

Yes ... but isn't the cycle 6 months (or thereabouts) for it to evolve to causing a problem within the heart?

They're going to allow the dog to be adopted out without desexing? If this is the case, why won't they agree to you bringing her back for desexing in three weeks after you collect her (assuming you do)? That way they'd know she's been desexed as well.

Don't follow this suggestion as it might be unneccessary and even unhelpful. But I'm thinking a dose of something like cod-liver oil (or an equivalent, if that is not 'dog friendly') might help to allow it to slide through without a hitch. Maybe something along the lines of "Omega Special Blend" oil or some such. Perhaps someone else can say whether this is a silly idea or not. Don't want to give your dog upset tummy on top of sticky tummy. 4Paws : I can only imagine

Write a message on him first.

Sorry 4Paws .... couldn't help myself. I've not had the experience you described but I'd presume that it will most likely pass through his digestive system. Be on the look out for any signs of discomfort; illness; alteration in behaviour and obviously seek Veterinary attention if this occurs. Oh - and of course, look out for it in his stools so you know when/if it has passed through. I've had my own harrowing experiences from when Kal ate plastic wrap and freezer bags. Nothing short of a huge relief when I saw it in the doggy do.

Just stick him up on the wall and he'll be fine.

Ok - I have purchased the Dimmitrol tabs and gave Mandela his first one last night. I must have become a bit paranoid about how we dose our dogs so much with chemicals that I admit to giving it to him reluctantly. But I've been thinking. If the mozzies' cycle is 6 months and a tablet kills the microfilia (?), why do we have to give a tablet every single day (or for those on the other types, every 45 days)? I mean, if the dose I gave Mandela would have ridded him of any potential mozzie heartworm infestation and it's going to take another 6 months before the mozzie 'cycle' gets to that point again, why not dose him say once every few months? I'm sure I'm wrong otherwise the good Dr. Jean Dodds would have mentioned this and now that he's started on it, I'll continue to administer the daily Dimmitrol until the warmer months pass by. Perhaps it is just that I have my mind tangled up in another project just now; that I have a headache and that I have a tooth that is causing me some grief; that I'm thinking in a bit of a muddle. I'm not even certain if this post makes sense. Aaaaagh! Somebody straighten me out, please?

Whoa Corvus ...... "control freaks" ???? Noice. (Not.) it's a training forum. The thread is about training. So we talk about training. Derr. Where the heck you got some idea that we don't have fun with our dogs and they with us is beyond me. In fact, if you read the thread properly, you'll see it is exactly about that. I can tell by a few other things that you've said in your post that you really have got hold of the wrong end of the stick on this but I see you're on the subject of training your hare again so I won't worry about going into those.

That's great Megan. In my case I looked after two "doggy door" trained dogs here at my home. Found their mess by the front and back doors when I woke up in the mornings. Was also not possible to toilet them before bed as the owners had not trained them to this and the dogs would have felt no need given they were trained they could go any time they preferred, day or night.

Doggy door is fine if you're happy with it. Just be aware that if you ever have the need to leave her with someone to look after her, they might NOT have a doggy door and she'll be used to just going when she feels she needs. This can lead to messes in your 'carers' home because she couldn't get out as she's used to. If that doesn't matter, then that's ok.

That's ok Monah - and without looking back I'm not sure who was the poster but assuming it was you, I'm glad that you've not taken the wrong end of the stick as I was concerned that you had . In your case it sounds as though much of the introduction to new/novel things was at your door step and although I think it is a good thing to have dogs experience these things in unfamiliar environments as well, I imagine it stood your dogs in good stead. Many people don't have that constant/frequent 'traffic' at their own homes and given that it is unlike the 'olden days' when it was more acceptable for dogs to roam and self-socialise, it is important that people make the effort to take them out to it. That's why (IMO) there IS so much of the emphasis on socialisation. When the laws came in that said people had to lock their dogs up in the yard (and I agree, there is good reason for that), they kind of forgot they'd need to change what they do to make up for the lack of opportunity their previous dogs used to have. I agree thought that when we do take them out, we (general populous) tend to make far too bigger deal about our pups and dogs engaging in play time with others. Back in my day ( .... god, sometimes I sound so ancient ..... I'm not though, really . Not IMO anyway .) dogs self-socialised with everything, including all the dogs in the neighbourhood. We were at school so the dogs were left to their own devices. I tended to find those dogs didn't go 'spare' at the sight of another dog. They'd do the meet and greet thing, but it was otherwise pretty much a "shrug shoulders, big deal" attitude. I see a lot of people with their pups/dogs trying to force and overly encourage them to interact. Provided my dog's not acting from fear, I'm quite happy if he isn't particularly interested. Not to suggest that he isn't :coffee:. For the reason/s, I think, that I've mentioned above. And also because there are so many dogs who were NOT socialised and therefore were very inappropriate in their "meeting and greeting", the emphasis was placed to err on the side of what they perceive as "positive" rather than "negative". Unfortunately, what is written cannot be written to account for every single person's life-style and circumstance. I'm inclined to think I would have had her out and about but in very 'gentle' ways .... ie low intensity. But I agree that there needs to be that element of 'trust' from the dog first so that it can at least feel protected by you. I don't perceive it as having been put across that way but I guess it is possible that it could be. I agree that many people don't understand HOW to APPROPRIATELY socialise their dogs to new and novel things/dogs/people and that the mistakes they make can have a negative affect as well. I agree. Sounds to me you've worked very hard on the issue and come far. Well done . Please don't blame everything on "socialisation" though. It sounds to me as though this dog had the issue before she even came to you, an element of which could even have been genetic.

K9: This is true, it is one of the reasons that it can become difficult to offer any advice on any forum for fear of people getting it wrong. There are many forums that as soon as a problem is presented, it is pasted as the standard answer "go see a behaviourist". I am glad were not there yet. K9 - my post was not intended as a criticism of the 'neutralisation' program and I hope you didn't take it that way. What prompted my post was a previous poster mentioning that she'd had dogs before in a country atmosphere with little socialisation and no problems, yet she's now socialised her current dog and has problems. I was concerned that her (and anyone reading) perception was now to not go out and socialise the dogs at all. Whilst I agree that I have visited forums where "go see a behaviourist" is given more commonly than not, I put my hand up to say that I am not innocent of having done the same. And there are many occasions when "go see a behaviourist" IS the best advice that can be given over the net.

I'm glad you mentioned this MonElite. I'm often concerned that people hearing of (3rd hand, for example) or even reading of "neutralisation" but not fully understanding it, will take it to extremes. The other end of the pendulum swing, you might say. People need to understand that 'socialisation' to other animals is still required. As to what extent (ie how much "positive" or not) I think depends on the breed of dog (ie genetic potential) as well as individuals within breeds. For the novice dog person, this is where I think it gets tricky for them. Having said that, I am 'neutralising' Mandela to an extent. He had a good deal of socialisation including learning (how) to play with other pups and meet with other adult dogs. I now keep things on an 'even keel' so to speak, and teaching him that being around other dogs does not constitute play time. He's had plenty of exposure to unfamiliar people, but I've controlled that to a good degree so that the interaction whilst being positive is at the same time not particularly 'valuable' to him. People can pat him, but I don't have them 'play' with him. I've probably gone somewhat on the "+" side of socialisation with other dogs though. In part this was because he didn't seem to understand how to appropriately approach/interact with other dogs. So I spent some time working on that. I took him to a show not so long ago ... not participating - just for a look see and socialisation experience. I was amazed at how many people there would automatically assume that they could present their dogs to him; feed him; and pick him up (even without asking). Just because he's a pup? (Well .... entering "young dog" phase now). I think there's some people out there now who think I must be some sort of 'fun police' because I kept saying "no" to the things they wanted to do to and with him. LOL

IMO you're allowing your cavvy too much freedom too early, and your expectations of her are too high. I crate trained my current 5 month old pup and for the last couple of weeks have been 'weaning' him off needing the crate. He sleeps on his own cushion on the floor next to my bed, but I use the crate to block him in. I still don't trust that he would stay put all night and probably will not permit him more freedom until he has shown me he can be reliable inside the house on a general day to day basis. I'd rather keep precautions in place longer than necessary than open the window of opportunity for too much room for error and hence having house training go backwards.

Loveretrievers .... that was a somewhat harsh and uncalled for response to PF and one for which IMO you owe PF an apology. Remember that this 'free' advice you seek is coming to you from over the internet, without opportunity from anyone to be able to observe your dog; your dog's relationship with you; or the layout of your home. Consequently, all anyone can do is provide you with thoughts, ideas and possibilities. Perhaps it would be best if you arranged for a trainer/behaviourist to attend at your home. In that way there wouldn't be the educated guessing that is unavoidable when people seek help over the net. If you let us know what area you're in, we will be able to try to help you by recommending a trainer/behaviourist for you to call?