Erny

Question HR? When this matter goes to Court and let's assume the prosecutors lose the case ..... do they have to pay the Court costs of the defendants?

From what I know of Schutzhund, it is a very disciplined sport - disciplined for the dogs AND disciplined for the people. What I'd like to know is of the dogs who have been Schutzhund trained, how many of them have been recorded as having caused a nuisance within the community. HR .... I think people do need to have an idea of the 'charges' that have been laid against these people. If it is a charge merely because of holding Schutzhund 'schools' and in the absence of proof that this alone has or is causing problematic dogs, then I think the charges are fraudulent (so to speak) and would indicate the authorities are charging them simply because "they can". People will continue to work their dogs the way they want to. The more 'bans' and criminal offenses that are held against the good supervisors, the more the training will go 'underground' and I know for a fact and first hand that's where things go seriously wrong for the dogs and for the community. This has been evidenced with the implementation of laws which preclude many from having and training 'working dogs'. The law might be there ..... but it doesn't mean it is right. I agree HR .... can we have more information please? ETA: Coincidentally, I just got off the phone from someone who informed me of what was happening and was going to pass on this email. Your post here came in first. I am getting really tired of how inch by inch, topic by topic, dog enthusiasts are being suffocated in what they do and somehow or other it all gets done under the guise of "dog-welfare". Is 'going' for these people a deflection of the real work that needs to be done to penalise the people who are really irresponsible dog owners?

When they are pups, apart from the smell of (especially fresh) soil, digging can often begin as an exploration thing. My youngster tried the same thing. I made a point of NOT making any 'deal' out of it .... in fact I ignored his attempts. Then, in his absence, I put his poops (one way of getting rid of them but with good use) in the hole and covered it over. It has stopped him. When your pup brings in a clod of turf, avoid giving attention to it otherwise this in itself can be reinforcing.

Yes - that is what you do, LP. Putting the sides on makes a considerable difference towards reducing the affect of the wind coming up underneath the roof.

OT ..... but, huh ?????? A vaccine either vaccinates, or it doesn't. Not the place to discuss here due to it not being relevant to the thread topic, but you might want to check out THIS thread on Vaccinosis. Is this "2=3" vaccine the same as the "3 year" vaccine that I believe is the same as the annual vaccine but 3 times the cost?? Think twice about the level and quantity of chemicals we have been pumping into our dogs. The aforementioned thread will give you some interesting reading on this.

Amhailti ..... even though there might be a gap before you have a dog back in your household, please don't be a stranger here. I'd love to hear from you and how you're getting on.

Amhailte - I logged on this morning and your post is one of the first one's I've seen. I'm surprised and shocked. Dear little Monster. He taught you so much Am, and journeyed with you so far. If not for you his life would not have been as fulfilling as I know from the posts and other communications we've shared that it has been. Whatever the reason for him to have chosen this time to cross to 'the other world', I'm gladdened that it was a cross-over that is peaceful .... he deserved that. Am, I'm really sorry and can well imagine the heavy heart you carry and hope you are ok. :D Here for you if you need to 'talk'. RIP Monster . You brought your Mistress as much joy, knowledge and companionship as she did for you.

I didn't go too much forward of my pup to get there as he too would sit at the edge of the decking watching me get soaked .... and then dash to go back inside as though he'd convinced himself that getting wet wasn't great. A bit of a nudge/push is better than dragging. I didn't use a lead either. But perhaps my 'set up' was such that it made it easier for me not to. From the decking to the grass area I have a narrow entry/exit way. He was forward of me and I simply body blocked him with my legs to stop him trying to get back inside. Honestly, if anyone had taken a photo of his body posturing at the time, you'd swear that I must have been murdering him. Just one treat after another after another after another ..... 'keep the good times rollin' on' type of thing. Beats one treat and then it's over. So the 'jackpot' is for the extra effort times

Not only other pups, but other dogs, people, noises, different surfaces, unusual people (eg. costumes; face masks) and the list goes on and on and on and ...................... IMO get your pup out early so you have time to 'gently' (ie gradually increasing exposure intensity) socialise and habituise to these sorts of things (including traffic noises etc. etc). Use common sense by avoiding areas that are heavily populated by dogs that you have no knowledge of and I would suggest keep your pup away from all of that for 7 days clear of each vaccination. There's no guarantees in life but IMO there is a greater risk of behavioural issues arising as a result of insufficient and inappropriate socialisation if kept away than there is of catching disease if you don't. Of course, this depends on your area as well - check with your Vet as to cases of parvo etc. etc. Remember that keeping your pup at home doesn't completely keep him/her safe from disease either.

Funny you should say that, because I know that 'sometimes' he is. But it doesn't matter to me. He's "checking in on me" and that's something for off-lead stuff I want him to do anyway. So all is good, whichever way it goes . Initially, when the focus was on toilet training though, I kept such a close eye on him that I don't think it escaped me what he did (or didn't :wink:) do. But to answer your OP ..... don't start doing stuff like putting tarp down so he won't get his paws wet. As you've already guessed for yourself, it WILL make a rod for your own back. And even if YOU didn't care about that, what about when you might need someone else to look after him? You gunna give them all the rules about laying tarp down so he'll go to the toilet outside? Nup. Definitely don't go there . Your little boy needs to learn to 'toughen' up and that you just gotta lump some things in life, wet paws just being one of those things. . ETA: When my boy did his first ever voluntary outside visit for the toilet, even though it was raining, he got 'jackpot' reward .

Blacklabrador .... my RR pup HATES getting wet from the rain. I just body-blocked him from coming back in (yep - meant I got wet too) until he'd gone to the toilet on the grass in the back yard. He soon learnt that the quicker he 'went' the quicker he'd get his treat AND to go back inside where it was dry. He is nearly 6 mo now and WILL go out in the rain to toilet ..... although I notice he 'holds on' for as long as he can . He always got a food treat (looooooves his food) for 'going' where he should. During the daytime I can always tell when he's been to the toilet outside, even though I might be at the other end of the house. He comes kathumping in very fast, screeches to a halt and sits up like Jackie waiting for his 'treat' :rolleyes: .

Thanks for asking Jessca. Should know the outcome by 16th December. I am informed that everyone who made a submission will be notified of the determinations of the Bureau of Animal Welfare, who are the ones who 'advise' the Minister. Here's a piccy of the "parent" submission that I hand delivered to them on 17th November, which was the date on which "public comment" invitation closed. Who knows which way this will go? . We are reliant on a fair go for consideration, rational thinking and natural justice. I know though that there are lots of people 'out there' who recognise the benefits to dog-welfare and training that the PPCollar provides and are looking on with strong interest to see what the current Minister of Agriculture will decide this time around.

Don't say anything to him. Just keep on walking. Praise him in the normal fashion as usual (when appropriate).

Generally speaking, I don't go around 'counting in seconds'. My pup is a 'jumper'. I do all the things to discourage him from it and it is when he is not doing it AND is not interested in doing it, that I'll reward him. Usually that's just with my attention.

I too, after spending a fortune in having polished floor boards included in my home, now have "Clark Rubber" carpet (rubber backed) covering the most of it. And the lovely tiles in the laundry (which is where pup is fed and also leads out to the back yard, so he is a bit inclined to scoot through there quite a bit) is covered with "Bunnings" rubber mats for tiles. And the quite large espanse of under cover decking, wooden floor lovingly oiled over the years to keep it nice, is mostly now covered with "Bunnings" black rubber matting for decking & boats. But like you .... it's a tonne better than pup doing damage to himself.

Remember that pups are pretty 'all over the place' when they play. They don't have the best co-ordination nor the best distance judgment. Either work so your pup learns not to be 'crazy' in the house or rooms where there are so many objects he can hurt himself on, or, if you are going to be ok with that (ie him being 'crazy' inside the house) for the rest of your pup's life, protect your pup from harm by modifying the placement of your furniture to suit (or at least putting something there so that any bumps are not going to actually harm him). Personally, I prefer dogs to learn that 'zoomies' and rough play are outdoor activities rather than indoor activities as there are often times when the rough stuff is simply not convenient, nor, as you have found out, safe.

I agree that this is a considerably long time to leave her in a crate - especially on a regular basis. Being left there for such a long period of time may well have established an association with punishment, rather than comfort. Not only for the long period of confinement, but for the isolation it now represents. When I crate trained my puppy, it was initially for very short periods of time and even then only usually when it was his sleepy time (or for my 'first thing in the morning coffee' time, something I like a bit of peace with so I can contemplate all the things that need to be done throughout the day, not to mention so I can wake up properly ). So his association was one of 'peace, calm and comfort'. He was glad of it because he really did want to sleep. Because he is a RR and prefers the heat as opposed to the cold (and because it was cold weather when I brought him home), I included a hot water bottle in the crate (although this was carefully wrapped in a towel and tucked securely under a couple of thick blankets). He very quickly learned to love being in his crate. (Note: I did NOT leave the hwb in the crate when I was not close by enough to supervise, for fear of him deciding to try to 'dig it out' and chew it .... something he never did, but you never know - so safety first.) During the day when I was home to supervise, his crate was left open and I would periodically (ie a few times during the day) let him have a food treat (eg. a piece of carrot; a bean; a piece of apple). I generally fed it to him in the crate using words to indicate that's where I wanted him to be. So on top of him liking his crate for rest and comfort, he also enjoyed going to his crate because it represented good things. Sometimes he was free to come straight out of the crate, other times not. Initially I could not leave him outside (for reasons I won't bore you with here) but there were times when it was unavoidable that I leave him. I knew he was too young to be trustworthy to be left to free roam inside, so I had created a set up which comprised of a large dog crate and a puppy pen. The puppy pen formed a 'yard' and his large crate entrance was locked in the open position so he could wander in and out at will. I placed a tarp on the floor of the puppy pen as I knew that 'accidents' were going to be unavoidable during my absence. I initially began leaving him in that 'set up' for very short periods. Eg. Just simply to skip out to the letter box and back; whilst wandering around the house doing housework; and then building up to me working in the yard (mowing; gardening) with him inside in the crate/pen arrangement. Then a trip to the local store. Then supermarket shopping. And so on until he was able to happily cope for up to 4 hours. Even then, those 4 hour stints were few and far between and often broken with a return for toileting purposes, a bit of a play, feeding (not necessarily in that order) and back in the crate so I could finish the other of my commitments that drew me away from home. Many times he would make a dash into his crate/pen arrangement and sit up like 'Jackie' in the 'yard' part of it, fully hoping (expecting :rolleyes:) a treat for doing so ;). Sometimes he'd just volunteer to go there and have a sleep or rest through the day without need to close the door to it. As the weather (and other things) improved, I began teaching him that being outside in the yard was ok and we began to use the crate less and less. Also, as his toilet training was getting better and better, I simultaneously began feeding him in the 'yard' component of the arrangement and included a snooza mattress in it as well. This actually helped in getting him out of the habit of soiling there. In fact I have now dismantled the crate/pen arrangement and pup (now 5.5 mo) either lays on his mat in the loungeroom whilst I'm watching TV (ok, he's not so perfect with that, but we are at that 'next stage' of teaching) or on his cushion bed next to my bed when we sleep (or on my waterbed where it is really warm when he thinks I don't know about it ). He has a well-sheltered outdoor kennel and has learnt to enjoy its comforts and is now capable of remaining in the back yard for a full working day without issue. I admit I am lucky that I was able to structure my work around pup in those early first few weeks, but this is where planning holidays from work is helpful. Pups need to 'learn' about being by themselves and being happy with their own company. It isn't something that comes natural to them and being confined to a crate for so long so regularly is not going to help your pup be ok with the crate nor necessarily with being alone. I am sorry if I seemed to have hi-jacked your thread with 'my story'. That's not intended. What IS intended is to portray a demonstration of what a crate should come to represent to a dog and some idea of perhaps how you can go about achieving that. Remember that a crate is a training AID, not a training substitute.

Of course he is . Aren't you Midol? :p

My little Ridgy Pup is the same ..... loooooooves to jump. I take control of the situation, whatever that situation might be. Moreover, I take control of him so that I can prevent it. From that he learns. If anyone told me "it's ok, I don't mind dogs jumping" I'd find it a simple matter of ignoring that or if I felt like commenting, to tell them I don't.

I know that you are looking for alternatives to keep your puppy mentally stimulated and it is great that you are mindful of the need to do so, but how long do you think you'll need to contain him in a 3m x 3m area and for what periods of time at any one stretch? That's not a very big space for a 5.5 month old who needs to stretch his legs and exercise throughout the day, IMO.

No - but from what I gather there's some 'notes' from when the regulation went in that stipulates it does not include the general game of tug that most of us enjoy with our pet dogs. I'll check it up later. Have some things to do and dogs to work, so I'll have to come back to this.

Some info has come in from a friend/colleague (who is pretty up with dog laws and understanding them) which suggests that the regulation quoted (s34) is NOT designed to attribute the lable "dangerous dog" to dogs who engage in the game of tug. I have a bit of checking up to do as he's given me some areas to look at and to read. I'll do that as soon as I can and get back to you here.

Going back, I'm wondering if what I've put up a couple of posts ago isn't the 'revised' edition already? I could have sworn that it used to include the words "held" by a person. Will have to back-track older versions of the DFNA.

I agree - except that the VCA/DogsVic do have a voice don't they? They are certainly one of the "key organisations" to and with whom the Government has sought opinion on matters relating to dogs in the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Regulations both in 2004 and currently for the POCTA regulation review.

Wouldn't this depend on the definition of 'attached'? To me 'attached' and 'holding' (as you would with a tug) are two completely different things Yes - I have thought the same Horus. What worries me is when the Govt DOES leave things open to interpretation. I mean, I have an Orbee Ball that I have begun using in drive training for my 5.5 mo dog (switching from my earlier tug). I have it attached to my accessory belt so it is simply 'there' if I need it. He's (being) trained to tug on that - but training is not complete and there are more than numerous times that he bites on it and tries to tug it from my belt. So, if an authority wanted to 'stick it to me' they might add that in to their list of "breach of orders". Sure .... I might win it in Court, but the point being that it is not clear enough and I might need to go to Court (and encounter the expenses that go with that) to prove them wrong. Some authorities and organisations rely on that as a way of suppressing people and their rights, IMO. It boils down to me not trusting them to be reasonable.