Erny

I don't agree with the blanket comment of "keep pups in until after puppy vaccinations". It is another subject though, but keeping pup isolated from all the experiences they'll need to be comfortable in coping with in our big wide world can have negative consequences that can (and too often enough do) affect for the whole of the dog's life. It is a matter of checks and balances. Sure - keep them away from environments where lots of unknown dogs visit, but I see no point in not allowing them to experience the noise of traffic; socialising with other dogs in controlled situations; experiencing crowds of people and the noises that go with that; and so on and so forth. By the time my pup was 16 weeks old I'd built up his experiences to enable him to easily cope with train rides; bus rides; high rise elevators; walk in CBD Melbourne; walk around Tullamarine Airport; visit at street cafe's in busy streets/road; and more. These experiences will set him up to be able to deal with many of the things that he's likely to be subject to throughout his life. Did you know that the early experiences a pup receives during its critical period (ie 8-16 weeks) ACTUALLY changes the shape of his brain? So important and permanent this period is. After that, the dog continues to learn through experience, but the brain no longer is developing at the same rate and to the same extent. Many people think it's ok that they have 4 whole weeks (ie start at 12 weeks through to 16 weeks) to socialise their pups. But careful and proper socialisation needs to be done incrementally if you're to be as certain as you can be that you'll avoid overwhelming/traumatising your pup by doing so. It was three visits to the train station, each was gradual in intensity, before we even boarded a train and on that trip only went a couple of train stops and then back again. Another train trip to a neighbouring busy township. And lots of other things in between before I felt him ready to confidently cope with a visit to the City. This (and all the other things I did in his early socialisation program) took up a great deal of my time - and I am fortunate enough to be in a position where for the most part I could structure my work around the things I needed to do to gradually introduce my pup to new/novel things and bit by bit work them up in intensity. I started him at age 8.5 weeks and only just made it up to the "big" (read : intense) things I wanted to accustom him to, by the age of 16 weeks. For people who work full time and only might have the weekends to manage this, four weeks equates to only 8 days. And that's presuming they don't have to share their lives with a partner and children. Not to mention that there's only so much socialisation/experiences a pup can manage on one day - the mental stimulation for them is exhausting and they aren't at that age built to keep on keeping on - they need their feeds and lots of sleeps (also vital for normal development) in between their day. And it's not just a matter of doing something once and then moving up to the next level of intensity. With some things you're better to stay at a certain level and vist there a few times before moving upwards from it. Admittedly there are some dogs who don't receive this or as much socialisation experience in that early period and they seem to cope with life ok. But there are many who don't. And once you find out that there is a problem that relates back to insufficient critical period experiences, you can't go back and start over to fix it. You may well be able to improve on whatever the issue (much depends on what it is) but those early critical period memories are permanent (and that includes the 'lack' of memories as well) no matter what you do. A lot of what we did was done with me carrying him in my arms as he was just too young to be fit enough to cope with all the walking that went with it. I admit this got a bit difficult by the age of 16 weeks, being a large breed pup . Make the most and best of the pup's critical period. You don't have to "keep them in". Even parvo virus can affect pups that haven't stepped a foot outside their yard. Just be sensible about where you take your pup. IMO ETA: The only thing I did do was keep my puppy away from any other dogs (known or unknown) as well as from public thoroughfare areas for a period of 7 days beyond his vaccination (I'm not following the common vaccination protocol - the common protocol being somewhat questioned as being the best thing for dogs these days) so, puppy already having received his first C3 vacc when at the breeder's, only had one more C3 at 12 weeks of age whilst under my care. I also made sure that during that 7 day period I only did things with him that I knew he was already very comfortable with. In this way, keeping his stress levels to an absolute minimum. Reason is that pup's immune system is already being 'tried' following the vaccination. I avoided adding further stress to it until it had a chance to recover.

I would not restrict the water - IMO dogs should have free access to water throughout the day. It assist their cooling system and it isn't just to do with the warmth of the weather, it's to do with the exercise/running around they've been doing as well. My pup doesn't have water available overnight though, and in the early couple of weeks I did restrict the time for "last drinks". The weather was particularly cool and I took into account that there was quite a lot of water content from having soaked his dry food, so I wasn't concerned. Now he has water available to him right up until bed-time. But then not until morning. In the initial weeks of my current pup coming home all I ever felt I did was clean up .... one after another after another. I'd no sooner be done with one (thinking it not likely to occur again inside that minute) than there'd be another spot to clean up. So I gave myself a dong on the head and took my own advice that I so often give others .... "be more vigilant". If I couldn't supervise because I was busy cleaning up a mess, he'd either go outside or I'd pop him in his crate for that small time. There were times when him being outside was not possible, yet I couldn't be there the whole time. So he had the use of a crate to which I'd attached a puppy pen and layed down a waterproof tarp on the floor. Although I tried to manage it so that he did not need to soil there, at least if he did he wasn't building up on a substrate preference for soiling on the carpet (a preference I suspect he'd already semi-learnt before he came here, although in that I'm not sure). I remember the first day there were no accidents inside I mentally celebrated, although I knew it was only because I'd been super vigilant - not because house training had occurred. BUT, that IS when house training actually did begin and from that point onwards it is markedly improving. Still need to remain vigilent though. Last night was the first time my pup actually barked to be let out of his pen for the purposes of going to the toilet. Boy! That was something that definitely earnt him a jackpot of rewards and praise . You'll get there LR. You just need to be vigilant and to structure things in ways that suits what you do when you do it and that lead to your dog learning to prefer to go outside and feel the lawn/soil/whatever under his feet before he toilets.

I have no stats on this but I do remember as a kid when I was informed that there was the 'concept' of comercial "pre-mixed" food coming on the market. At the time I thought "wow .... what a great idea, that'd make it easy" but of course my child-like presumption was that the content would be no different and certainly no less than what our dogs received already ... ie bones and table scraps + left overs. I'm guessing, but I think this would have been back in the mid-to-late 60's. I'm not saying that the commercial products weren't available until then, but to my knowledge it was only a new concept to Australia. We got a tin of dog food once sometime after it was well publicised and many people were already using it. But we hated the stink of it so simply never fed it, except for one other occasion when we'd been out all day and there was nothing in the fridge or pantry for our dog, so a quick dash in to the local store for a can of dog food solved that immediate dilemma. If my memory serves me correctly, "tinned" wet dog food was the "go". I don't think it was until later that kibble became the preferred diet out of the commercial range. Also only vague memory so I could be very wrong, but I'm thinking "Pal" was the first commercial product to have made its popularity debut ???

You'd need to be careful - very careful. I once had a couple of canaries that suffered from mites. Vet told me to hang one of those "moth" strips (that people use in their wardrobes) near them but for a short period only. I forgot it was there one time and left it overnight (not in the cage, but outside of it). The next day my canaries were dead. I still feel dreadful for that . I would not consider fly spray "safe" under any circumstance. A little might not do any noticeable harm, but it is toxic and there's no getting around that.

By your description I would suggest your dog is exhibiting active submission and giving every indication to the other dog that she is no threat and does not want harm. I would not try to change it.

Excellent photography, WS. Seemed to catch the 'spirit' of the weekend and everyone (including the dogs) looked to being enjoying themselves . I'm surprised not to see Lablover there ???

Hi Geggy .... and welcome to DOL. I don't have time for a lengthy reply - a very early start tomorrow demands that I should have been in bed by now. But to start with, just allow pup to get used to wearing a collar. Pop it on for very short periods only. In fact, pop it on and immediately off (don't even have to buckle it up the first few times) and have some fun - making the whole deal positive (and also gives you a chance to see how concerned she might be about it). When she's ok with the collar, attach the lead. Walk around with her with it on (ie don't try to do any lead work with her) for a bit. Keep these sessions really short, but you can do them frequently throughout the day. It's all about creating a positive experience. Try to not make a big deal about the lead - by that I mean try to not draw her attention to the lead too much. This is only going to encourage her to mouth/bite the lead. Try to keep it up (without applying tension) out of the way of her mouth/face. For the first week I don't worry about walking on lead too much (save for getting pup used to the concept). Mostly I concentrate on socialising to worldly things (traffic; noises; different surfaces; and so on and so forth). Are you going to doggy school with her? That would be a great start for you to learn about lead handling; socialisation; beginnings of puppy basic training. Much better and easier that trying to understand it all from over the net, as it would be demonstrated to you and the instructor can help you if you have any troubles. Source a reputable school with instructors who have knowledge not only about training but also about puppy and dog behaviour/psychology as well. You will find these people a wealth of knowledge to help you as you journey through with your pup in its various periods of development. But always - the sessions should be short. And not a lot of what I refer to as 'forced' walking for a young puppy. Exercise, yes. But in the form of free play where pup can dictate when pup is tired. You have very soft and growing bones to consider at this stage. Over all, have fun and enjoy your puppy. Set your guidelines now and steer your puppy to live within them. In this way your pup will learn and be the least confused and conflicting as she grows and matures. I know others will join your thread and post some excellent advice but for now I hope the above gives you some idea. Congratulations on your new family member. Labs are wonderful and ever so adorable especially (but not only) as pups. Oh - and beware. Pictures will be demanded .

I actually like that our quarantine laws are as strict as they are (albeit frustrating when it affects the import of what we want). But I'm all for "Australian Owned and Grown" products and provided they are good quality and provide what I want/need, then all the way .

Thanks Stormie. Aside from the bland diet for a day or two (will pass that info on as well), that's pretty much what I've suggested. I don't think there is cause for alarm just at this stage. Cheers, and thanks guys for the contributions.

IF it was seizure activity, 5 minutes is a long time for it to be going on for and is something I would want to have checked out quite quickly. I'm still not so certain that what you've described is a seizure, although it could have been I guess, given that there are (what are they called?) .... petit mals as well as the more severe grand mal seizures. You can't miss a Grand Mal seizure. They are frightening to watch.

The more I read about vaccines; immunity; and titre tests, the more I'm thinking it isn't so much about the "measure" of immunity but that there is immunity there. I mean, can you be 'partly' immune to something? I think the titre tests are more a case of "if it shows up, there is immunity". If it doesn't, then you might like to give a booster vaccination to be certain, but it doesn't mean the dog's not still immune - "cell memory" is (likely?) to still be there to trigger at the recognition of the disease and fight it off. I'm doing my best to understand it all - so the above is only my own interpretation and I make no claims about it being accurate or even correct.

Cheers, IR. Have passed this on too. Owner has been keeping a check on dog's poo (what a way to spend a day!) and they seem okayish atm. Dog's demeanour is fine - still a maniac .

I'd be asking for a full blood work up. Also checking thyroid function (and given we don't have the laboratory facilities for full panel testing, would probably arrange for the bloods to be analysed via Dr. Dodd's clinic in the USA). Hypothyroidism can result in seizure activity. But then so can so many other things as well. How long did the seizure go on for? Did you actually see her "fitting"? Was it a hot day on each of these ocassions (may be off the mark but thinking heat stroke).

Thanks IR. I'll pass this info along.

Not an 'expert' on the subject as such, but did the Vet 'clear' this dog of having any holes (some are difficult to detect) in the ear drum? Pouring cleaner down there in those circumstances can be painful I believe, and not helpful. In the absence of that perhaps keep the ear flaps (if that's as far as you might be able to get without knocking her out) wiped with white vinegar. By not approaching her ears for the 'full work out' so to speak might help her to gain the trust you need from her that every time you look at her ears is not going to mean "pain is coming". Sorry - I think that's all I can think of to add in a vague attempt to help.

Yep - very rarely do I use spray and if I do it's only because the flies have gotten out of control. Even then, I clean up the flies as they drop. My can of fly spray has lasted me, ummmmm, about 3 years or more, so little do I use. Dust-buster is what I mainly use as well, although I stuff the end of it with a tissue afterwards as they sometimes manage to crawl back out. Our flies where I live are really big (blow-fly size) but incredibly slow. So sometimes I just catch them with some paper towelling or a tissue and they are quickly squashed. Gotta be a kinder way of dying - quick, instead of by poison - anyway.

Hi all. Have had a call from a client who is a bit concerned about her dog who poo'd a sloppy (ie holding form, but very loose) green poo this morning - so bad that it caused her to gag and she had to get her husband to clean it up. Dog is otherwise normal - eating well; lively; etc. To the client's knowledge her dog hasn't eaten anything different to the norm and was originally concerned about parvo. My reply to her was such that if the dog is normally active and happy; drinking and eating normally, then I wouldn't be too concerned and wouldn't think it would be parvo related. But just to watch for further stools to check that they are returning to normal and that her dog's demeanor remains as it usually is. Any other thoughts? I think this is a case of don't panic and just keep dog under observation for a bit.

IMO you'd be better off with a one-on-one training session with a reputable/capable trainer/behaviourist first. This will help determine what the cause of the problem is that results in your dog barking so much. If it is based in fear, for example, going to dog obedience school might be too overwhelming for your dog just at the moment. I've worked with many people whose dogs have vocalised in one shape or form at other dogs due to fear. A few one-on-one sessions (with practice by the owner in between times) and a private session with them at the obedience school to show them how to gradually integrate their dogs to the classes without overwhelming them and causing their earlier work to regress (as well as email progress contact) has pretty much seen them (owners and dogs) well on their way to rehabilitation. Regardless, you'll find it easier to learn to handle your dog in the presence of (eg) only one other dog before you then progress to multiples of dogs. Your improved handling skills will have a marked influence on your dog's behaviour as well. The instructors at your dog school may not be as experienced or specialised in being able to assist you with this problem in any case, and generally are unable to spend the time necessary to help you as much as a private consultation would. Are you talking about the anti-bark citronella collar you used? Are you saying you used this whilst you were out walking/working on lead? These collars are not designed for that use - at least, it is not something I would recommend. It would be more about what YOU do that would count. The anti-bark collars are generally for home when no one is there to be able to manage the barking. Even then, I'm not a fan of the citronella style collars anyway. As to which type would suit ..... I'd like to be able to see your dog first to recommend, assuming one is required at all. ETA: Jane Harper (trainer/behaviourist) lives in Brisbane and by this forum has a good reputation. If you're looking for that one-on-one help I've suggested you might do well to look her up .

Depending on what vaccination you have elected to have (or what your Vet elected to give). Basically the 3rd of the puppy series vaccination is simply an extra of the one they had the month before. Or might include parainfluenza and bordatella (which makes up the C5 component) if you didn't have that before. Yes - it's a personal choice but an educated decision that can only be made if you read up on the options, weigh them all up and accredit them to suit what is in your opinion the best for your dog and your current situation/circumstances. Weighing up the risks is what it boils down to.

Oh .... I getcha now PF My pup had his first C3 at 6.5 weeks and then his second (and final puppy) C3 at 12 weeks. I socialised in between and after, allowing only the 7 day period after each during which time I steered clear of dog populated areas and what I thought would be more stressful situations for him. He did not visit a "dog park" (albeit a quiet one) as such until 2 weeks following the last C3. Most of the socialisation comprised on non-doggy events (train travel; bus travel; sights/sounds building up to CBD Melbourne visit; Tullamarine Airport; Street-side Cafe visits; etc. etc.) but puppy school and select social visits with friends' dogs have been regular throughout (save for that 7 day period I mention).

Although if the OP is going to allow for the "down time" period after that vacc, it means her pup doesn't begin the socialisation it very much needs until at least 17 weeks. ETA: HERE's a link to a thread running in "General" on the topic of vaccines and vaccination protocols, for any who haven't seen it and who are interested.

I don't go for the 3rd puppy vaccination nor do I follow the common protocol of not going out until the whole series of vaccinations have been given. But regardless, I keep pup away from any dog populated areas (and for that matter, away from any situation that might be stressful) for a full 7 days following each vaccination that is given. The vaccination causes a load on their immune system and hence they would (IMO) be the most susceptible to picking up things during that period, until their system is fully back on track again. But then your pup's 16 weeks and if not past then very close to the closing of the 'critical' period. So it's a bit of a toss up. I'd be inclined to delay her vacc to after you go to club, if you can, that way you can at least start on rehabilitation technique.

Agree with PF. On lead in a controlled environment is the way to go. My previous (avatar) girl had dog/dog issues. She was fine with dogs she came to know. But not fine with unfamiliar dogs. (Although with work in controlled situations improved on that greatly.) There's a difference between the two and being ok with the former doesn't mean there is an absence of dog/dog issues.

Don't know what you mean, MonElite

..... no one. It was completely my silly assumption. Of course you can collar condition for other collar styles as well. This would include the RT spray collars as well as other more commonly used training tools. :wink: