Erny

I agree PPS. It isn't so much the 'symptom' of the reaction that is great cause for urgent concern, it is WHY the symptom appeared in the first place. For those interested visit Dr. Jean Dodds' Vaccination Protocol . There is also her Recommended Vaccination Schedule you could read.

Turning its back/going away from what it fears might be a "default coping" behaviour or strategy, for example. Or looking at its owner when it is worried about something. As to what is done (and there can be many different variations to it - what is chosen depends on dog and dog/handler combo.) You need to show/teach the dog that behaviour first so the dog can begin to understand that the lunging/aggression is not the reason he/she survives/stays unscathed.

I agree that a professional consult would be better. But just to address a couple of basics :- Leadership/heirarchy status (your dog's perception) Inadvertent reinforcement I'd be looking at each of these in combination with barking deterrent methods.

Corvus .... would you have been only happy to discuss provided everyone agreed with your thoughts? The fact that they don't is perhaps something that you might like to ponder on.

How long after they leave is it that his destructive behaviour and/or barking start? If these people can arrange it, I'd suggest trying him with some herding lessons. IMO this activity goes straight to instinct and can often help resolve other less appetative behaviour. The problem is that the "start" is usually the most important part to get right as this is what will be the foundation for the dog's improved behaviour.

IMO first step is to teach the dog there is another way - IOW, teach a behaviour the dog can come to learn as a default coping behaviour. That is not wisely done by merely correcting the aggression and is not something I would recommend. I won't suggest to people over the internet on what to do with their dogs in matters of aggression - unwise because whatever I suggest may not be suitable for the individual dog, or the handler may not be able to handle it properly (or by the mere fact that she can't be shown how to do it so may do it all wrong with wrong timing etc). I have corrected some dogs for the exhibition of aggression but that has been somewhat further down the track in the behaviour modification program and not every dog - and even then, as I said, it is not something I easily or readily recommend. I would recommend your friend consults with a private trainer/behaviourist who is knowledgeable/experienced in dog behaviour, esp. aggression. How did the trainer you mention come to the conclusion that "this behaviour will get better with time [but] never go away"?

No - that's not what I meant, Corvus. I mean showing aggression in a circumstance that doesn't deserve aggression. I don't mean about the 'right way to show aggression'.

What's included in the daily exercise and over what period of time? What's the dog's behaviour like once the owners leave, or where the dog is aware that they are about to leave? Won't be able to tell anything from the short amount of info supplied and without knowing/seeing the dog - especially in the absence of historical information (eg. learnt behaviours etc.) IF the behaviour is related to the owners leaving, it may not necessarily be "separation anxiety" which is a VERY complex condition. Could be simply that he doesn't like being without 'someone' there. Particularly (but not only) because there is the absence of historical information, it would be necessary to trial a few things first in an effort to narrow down to the 'cause' in the first place.

Would be interested in knowing what "better ways" you've heard from other people? And how come they haven't worked? If they were working your dog (yep ... you used as an example when you thought it suited you to do so, and I'm sorry, but a "hare" example doesn't cut it by comparison to a dog given we are talking 'dogs' here) then why is your dog still exhibiting the signs of being uncomfortable in an environment where she aughtn't have to feel uncomfortable? You'd only be the "best person to judge" if you understood that the emotion of aggression (which I mean to include in relevant degrees the early warning signs of aggression) is not an enjoyable nor appetative one.

You seem to be under some illusion that anyone who doesn't allow inappropriate aggression .... or the early warning signs of it, go untreated or uncontrolled, is also a person who never allows their dog the freedom to interact unimpeded? Maybe that's not the case, but by what you've written, that's certainly what you're implying intentionally or not. Either way, I'd suggest that you're incorrect in that assumption or implication. It is inappropriate interactions that the majority of people will assume control of and then work to discover why or how the inappropriate interactive behaviour developed and adjust whatever is necessary to improve it.

Sounds as though she is growing older and her 'uncertainties' are being exhibited in more overt signals. Don't know her age, so it's possible that she is entering or is in a 'fear phase' period. One way or the other, you need to exhibit your leadership. Leadership comprises the responsibility of protection. This is not to say that you should molly to her fears when she shows them, as that will only reinforce that behaviour. It's about what you do that counts. You now know she has an issue with (eg) wheeley bins. So you need to habituate/desensitise her to these. It also seems she has an issue with people doing perhaps unusual things like gardening. With the onset of our current spring weather, perhaps she's not seen people working in the garden before? All of this is where a very broad but careful approach to socialisation in the critical period (8-16 weeks) pays off big time. Gradually increasing exposures to more and more intensive levels gives dogs permanent memories they can draw on when they later come across new or novel situations. There is a 'carry over' effect of that early socialisation as well and whilst we need to be careful when our dogs are going through 2nd fear impact periods, these earlier positive socialisation experiences can help them deal with things that later might at first concern them. Be calm but be assertive when she shows the signs you are describing. Work to prevent fear behaviour (and it sounds as though that is what she is exhibiting, although I couldn't attest to that without seeing her) and treat the situation as if it wasn't occurring. Don't make a fuss of the 'thing' she is worried about - IOW, don't focus on her point of concern. Act as though it wasn't there. She'll be watching you and if she sees you also focussing on the object of worry, it will reinforce in her mind that there WAS something to worry about and will serve to increase her anxiety about it for the next time and the next and the next ...... I would recommend you look up some dog schools who lend services that comprise of socialisation/habituation (and have the wherewithall to be able to explain to you how to do it properly) or if not that, then some guidance from a private trainer/behaviourist. It doesn't sound a serious matter at this stage, but you have just recognised these fairly early signs and now is the time to rectify and understand them so it is less likely to escalate to a greater and more serious exhibition of fear later on. Confident and self-controlled behaviour is what you need to be aiming to achieve.

Genetics + Experience + Present Environment = Behaviour Taking into account the above components that make up for behaviour, it could be the body language of the other dog or, in cases where a threat or attack has previously occurred, the other dog's colour, size, breed, whether it is long haired, short haired, etc. etc. In regards to this latter possibility, it could be something where the dog has simply been traumatised - not necessarily 'attacked', especially in its younger impressionable phases. That's why lots of careful supervised socialisation with other dogs in the early puppy 'critical' period is so important.

Thanks Nekhbet .... I was thinking likewise.

I disagree with you Corvus but just as you are entitled to your opinion, so are others and in fact I think that's what you were posting for? I guess the 'proof is in the pudding' and the fact that your dog is feeling pressured at all enough to exhibit what I can only assume is inappropriate aggression (if it wasn't, I'm not entirely certain what we are discussing) does signal something amiss though - aggression is generally not an appetative emotion/behaviour. I am all the more concerned that your dog does not heed you when you do step in and that she is able to 'take over' the decision making process of a situation. All the more concerned that it seems you think this is ok and 'natural' for her to do?

Inappropriate aggression should always be 'treated', but done improperly it can result in the dog not understanding that the aggression is unwanted, but that the signals of aggression are unwanted, which of course as you suspect, is not what we want. But the 'warning' signals of aggression are exactly that - a warning that overt aggression is imminent and therefore, assuming the threat of aggression is inappropriate, should not go untreated. All that you are ensuring there is that the aggression is likely to escalate to more serious advances. If your dog is exhibiting warning signals of impending aggression in what would be considered inappropriate circumstances, I would recommend you engage some professional assistance NOW, before the behaviour escalates and a higher level of and/or more aggressive behaviour becomes learnt.

Taking my trainer/behaviourist \'cap\' off here (so I don\'t have to be \'serious\' ) but I wonder at how dumb or silly they think WE are for going \'party\' just because they wee\'d or poo\'d. Probably think we\'re simple minded idiots. (And sometimes I think perhaps we are? LOL)

Double post. Quotes stuffed up.

Speak to Steve and see what he recommends. Perhaps a workshop attendance would be better than no consult at all ??? Your dog's issues are difficult, complex and serious. It deserves serious effort to consult someone most appropriate.

That isn't the case with my dog. He's an angel at home and doesn't put a foot out of line and knows i'm the boss, but get out in public and he's another dog, doesn't listen or do a thing i say. Not quite sure what you're alluding to here RottyLover01. Could be that your dog loses his confidence when outside the family home and this is where lack of his perception of or trust in your leadership shows up. I wouldn't know, but it is food for thought. You were booked in to see K9 Force at some stage soon, weren't you? Or did it turn out that you can't make it down there?

It is a matter of literally showing her what is appropriate. Be sure to keep the socialisation experiences going (and know that "socialisation" is not only about dogs meeting dogs and people .... it is about all manner of experiences such as noises, surfaces, etc. etc.) ETA: 4-Paws ... sorry about the thread hi-jack. Good luck with when you see the trainer and don't despair.

What you do depends also on the other dog. Just as your pup needs to learn appropriate approach, you need to be sure that the other dog's approach is safe and not so inappropriate to be overwhelming for your pup either. Assuming all is well in relation to both dogs/pups, I hold pup by collar to prevent him from jumping up and around and give quiet praise when the dogs are greeting appropriately. My 'control' is firm yet simultaneously gentle. IE Not about being a vice like grip, provided of course he is being relatively calm as well. As an aside ... you say you've finished socialisation classes? How old is your pup?

Appropriate behaviour is NOT lunging or jumping at or towards other dogs. The trouble is, the pups are removed from their litter and we humans don't continue the education they would otherwise often learn. This inappropriate and rude 'greeting' is what causes many dog aggression incidents. So yes - it is good if you show your pup the way appropriate greeting and approach should be. Pups need to be shown the way to learning self control, just as human children do in the course of their development.

Hi 4 Paws. As I am sure you are aware, leadership is a very important and vital component towards improving on many problematic behaviours, especially aggression related issues. Leadership needs to be exhibited sufficiently for the dog to perceive, then rely and trust in and finally to take for granted, so to speak. I don't know how long you have been working with your GSD on this issue and I assume you have been vigilant with your leadership signals, but it could be that perhaps your GSD isn't up to the point of being able to merely assume your status and the fact you were sitting down at the time might have made a difference to him. Add that to the possibility that you were "out the front" and that there may be a mix of territorial behaviour in there. I'm not suggesting your dog's behaviour is therefore acceptable, but recognising the circumstances might help you to not despair so much. It may in fact not be a case of having gone "backwards", even though it is something you still need to still work towards. ETA: I recall all those many years ago when I adopted my avatar girl who had fear aggression issues. I do recall those times when it sometimes seemed to be 3 steps forward and one step backward. Yet in all, it added up to being a learning curve that was headed in the right direction.

JAN .... I know from your other thread that the mating wasn't successful and I'm sorry for you for that. As I've indicated in the other thread, I've had my fair share of disappointments in the lead up to finally finding Mandela, and a failed mating was one of those. However, something is out there for you and I know that one day you will make the decision that "feels right" and will come home with a pup or dog to share your life with. So, in anticipation of that day and to answer your question (above), Mandela was about 15 weeks when I purchased his harness and about 15.5 weeks or maybe a smidgen closer to 16 weeks when he had his first trip in the harness with no crate. In this I had no choice as he had about grown to the stage that he didn't comfortably fit in the crate anymore and there was no way that a larger crate was going to fit in the back seat of my car.

Targetting Fetch