Erny

What is her maximum 'comfortable' distance at an ISS? What distance is it that you get to when she breaks at an OSS? Your idea of "short distance" might not be my idea of it, so if you could give me a visual by guessing the distance in metres might help.

Thanks guys. Then I have 3 weeks to make a decision about which preventative medication I'm to give.

Yes, I too Pebbles. And looking back in memory of my avatar girl, I ponder at times whether me "doing all the right things" by dosing her to prevent this and prevent that didn't actually exacerbate (if not "cause") the illness she was in all likelihood predisposed to. I don't blame myself - I can't, because there's no way of proving it one way or the other. But I wish I could have that time over and try it all another way. Of course, hindsight is a powerful thing and we all become experts with it. I am forever seeking that crystal ball so that foresight might become more powerful than hindsight. Wishful thinking .

Thanks IR :rolleyes:. In regards to the above, the Vet informed me that a heartworm blood test isn't needed when using Revolution because it is "safe".

Thanks for your report too, Pebbles. IF it is only 'luck' that has been on your side, then I hope it continues for many years to come. I think back to the days of my childhood shared with the dogs over the many years, into early-mid adulthood. Only wormed them occasionally. Never gave heartworm preventative. Never vaccinated beyond their puppy vaccinations. Flea preventative to only one dog who suffered flea induced excema (back then we lived on flea congenial land, and what was available then - which was an ingestible flea treatment - is vastly different from what we do now, I think). Washed the dogs every so often and used flea wash if necessary. All the dogs lived to a good age with relatively little to no health issues along the way. It does make you wonder. Maybe like you, Pebbles, we were "lucky".

Nekhbet - thanks for the additional informative post. I am taking everyone's comments on board and weighing things up. I think I would like to find 'moderality' (if that's a word?). Will come back here to let you know what I ended up doing and with further info as it comes to hand.

Thanks Alison. I've emailed Dr. Jean Dodds for her thoughts on my direct questions. Provided she allows, I'll let you know what she says. I tend to trust her because she has shown herself to be open-minded and up to date with her knowledge and wisdom. I don't blame the Vets out here for their opinions/views as I think it is a case of what they have learnt and who they have available to learn from, and the facilities/finances we have (or more particularly don't have) to further that knowledge through research.

Aahhhh ... so Milbemax Tabs cover not only heartworms but the usual common worms we need to treat regularly for as well? Which would bring me to my next question .... When the dog is an adult we worm every three months. The Mibernax Tabs need to be monthly for heartworm. Is the monthly dosage for the treatment of the common worm then a heavier dose than what would be required for that? And with the regularity of the treatment, can those worms become resistent? How do you pick up the "earlier stages" of heartworm infestation? Is this only by blood test and if so, how often would that blood test need to be taken (thinking that I might be able to fit it all in when I have the annual titre testing done). Sorry for the questions on questions .... it is not that I am unhappy with any one particular answer. I am just doing what I can to conclude in my own mind that whatever I do is the best that I can (as we all seek to do) for my pup. Given the health issues my avatar girl had, which in the end became her demise, I am probably a bit paranoid about the whole 'chemical' trip and the possible affects to the auto immune system. Thanks for the info Nekhbet.

Thanks guys. In searching around for answers or at the very least, view points from others, I came across THIS site, with Dr. Jean Dodds speaking. It is getting to seem to me that for every plus preventative measures give us, there's 3 times that in negatives. Given that thyroid issues seem to be so rife these days (which could simply be because there are more accurate blood testing and reasearched analysis indicators available ), it does make me wonder if it is not the result of all the 'stuff' we load our dogs with these days. Anyway - back to the link to the site I gave above .... seems to me that a dog having heartworm (whilst not at all good) is curable in more instances than I previously thought?

Thank you Settrlvr .... you do what I was thinking I might do too. Like you, I don't want to treat him (ie fill him up with chemicals) for what he doesn't need. Has anyone here ever had any stomach issues caused by the feeding of the monthly chewable heartworm tabs? I think I'm being a tad paranoid because my previous girl was very sensitive and developed stomach issues. The other thing I'm pondering on (and it goes against my thoughts in the first line of this post) is that with the spot-ons, they are safe to give without having to test the dog for heartworm first. Unless it has changed since I last administered my previous girl with heartworm chewables, I understand that after a 'grace' period (for if you've forgotten), you should get the dog tested before administering. This is making me think the spot-on is milder, in so far as it relates to heartworm prevention? Sorry to babble on. These are just the thoughts that are still rattling and will most likely continue to rattle until I go bite the bullet and dose my fella with whatever heartworm prevention medication.

With the onset of warmer weather and with that ..... mosquitos, I have turned my mind to heartworm preventative for Mandela who is only a few days shy of 5 months old. I am loathe to subject him to chemicals of any description if I can sensibly avoid it, although knew that heartworm prevention was going to be a "must have" - I just put it off for as long as I could. Mandela is a Rhodesian Ridgeback and anyone who knows them would also know they have a very fine, single coat. IF they have a flea at all it is easily detectable, as is any flea dirt. At this stage, no fleas are evident so I don't believe there is an issue there. I know that Revolution (which, if I use a spot on, is what I plan to use) covers ear mites as well. That's a plus although is also something that I can keep a visual on, so "prevention" might not be required? Of course, Mandela is regularly wormed as appropriate. Revolution covers roundworm and hookworm also. So, I'm wondering : Is it kinder to his 'system' to treat him only with the heartworm chewable? Is there any good reason to avoid Revolution due to unneccessary 'double up' in his worming regime ? Even if there was a 'spot on' that did heart worm only, would a heartworm chewable be less kind to his 'system' than a 'spot on'? I know that's a bit of a hypothetical, but an answer, if one is known (or even thoughts) would help me sort out in my head which is best for him with all things considered. I don't think I realised how much and many thoughts were rattling around in my head until I tried just now to write them down, so I hope that the direction of my thinking has some clarity that you guys will be able to see to know why I'm asking these questions. If not, let me know and I'll have a bash at re-explaining . Cheers and thanks in advance for your thoughts, comments and/or answers.

Springdog ... get in contact with Dr. Bruce Syme - Vet in Castlemain (inventor of "Vets All Natural" foods and supplies). One of the ailments my avatar girl who passed a couple of years ago (bless her cotton socks ... ) had to deal with was IBS. I ended up consulting with Dr. Bruce and he gave me a really good diet for me to put together (ie not a commercial product). It was a long (although pleasant) trip (2.5 hours) for me, but I considered his consultation well worth it. This remedied her IBS really well. She was on no other medication for it. At least enquire with him. One thing though - I believe there is a somewhat large difference between Irritable Bowel Syndrome and Irritable Bowel Disease. Can't remember rightly enough to be sure, nor can I recall the difference. But it might be worth checking up on and if I'm right, knowing which your girl has.

Need more info on how you began the transition to out of sight stays (OSS) including what method of training you have used for it and for your "in sight" stays (ISS). What distance are you from her at the point where you 'disappear' ? Also, how solid were her ISS at the time you began transition to OSS, and to what distance were her ISS?

Contact Jane Harper - she's in Queensland (Brisbane, I think). ETA - Even doing the NDTF Cert III Course, although it provides you with good grounding/foundation upon which to build further knowledge and experience, does not necessarily 'ready' you to be able to deal with matters of aggression. As Nekhbet and Kavik have mentioned - there is no shame in asking for help, NDTF Course attendee or not. In fact, calling in for professional help will not only assist you and your dog for the problem at hand, but will also gain you some insight and experience that does not avail many until somewhat later during or after the Course. By then you will probably be just beginning to realise how complex the issue of aggression is and why it cannot wisely be dealt with over the internet, and why no responsible trainer would agree to do so. I also agree that working your dog off another person is very precarious. There are some other things that need to be investigated and if necessary adjusted at a foundation level first (ie obedience training skills and leadership) before venturing to expose to the immediate issue you speak of. And when the phase for exposure to other people is appropriate, you will learn how to introduce this properly and how to manage/deal and train for behaviour modification.

Need to correct you here (pun intended LOL) Percyk. People who know and understand the check chain - particularly trainers - do not call them "check chains" to "soften the blow to the owner". The reason we refer to them as check chains is because THAT is what they should be used for ..... to CHECK the dog, NOT to CHOKE it. Hence the aversity to the name "Choke" chain. Using the term "Choke chain" gives people who don't know any better the wrong impression of how they should be used. I abhor how these chains are labeled, the more so because they are so freely available you can pick them up from the supermarket and that there are absolutely no written guidelines for their use that accompanies them.

Holy toledo!!! That's working things a bit fast!!! Wedding? No way!!! I absolutely have NOTHING to wear!!!! (Although I have a few check chains that might suffice as 'bling' and a disused head halter that is the right colour for 'something blue'.)

Lordess to you, thank you Jeff. Go on. Make my day . I think perhaps Midol would be more embarressed than I. Sorry for getting you into this, LM. Jeff is so incorrigible.

Oh hey Jeff ?????????????????????????? Shut up!!! Smarty farty. ETA: I do note that my last post seems to have caused not only a 'cease fire' but also a 'cease conversation altogether' !!!

If you are not using the "guide show and place" method, then I'd simply work on giving the "yes!" marker word following very quickly with your release word - try to get these words in really fast before he pops back up. Worry about getting the drop right first rather than how much time he stays in the position. But if it is SO immediate to be impossible, try to keep your lure hand (with food) down in place when you release the food though as that might encourage him to remain in the position at least for an extra second whilst he takes it from your hand and give him your release word a nanno second before he takes the treat. If you were using the "guide show and place" method, then it is simply a matter of not removing your hands to allow him to pop out of the drop straight away. If you don't know the "guide show and place" method, have someone who knows how to do it PROPERLY to show you as it is definitely something that needs to be done correctly for your training sake and for your dog's sake.

Thank you Delkerabo . I'm on 'alert' for petition sheets coming in. Please send me a message to let me know what day you've posted them so I make sure they're received . Oh ... and please indicate on the back of the envelope (or on a slip of paper inside the envelope if you prefer) who they are from. If you've written/contacted me under your DOL name, please use your DOL name as I find it hard to keep up with who is what DOL member. This way I will know that the one/s you've sent are the one/s I've received. If that makes sense.

Using the lure hand very subtly and very slightly take your hand back a little. He would have to bring his neck back a bit to be able to 'snuffle' at the treat. This pushes his weight to his back end and usually results in the rump going to the ground. If that doesn't work, try using your other hand to guide his butt end down. Say your marker word (eg. "yes!") and release the treat to him IMMEDIATELY (but not before) his butt pops down.

No - you often don't Midol. But then I've come to understand this and if I'm not sure whether you REALLY meant as I might have taken something, I'll query you on it. People could do the same before jumping on you, IMO. And no ..... I'm not in love with Midol and have no reason to be sticking up for him, before anyone assumes so.

Thanks NB. I thought you were speaking specifically to protection work, but given why this thread was generated, and how far we've come with it, I wasn't certain.

NB .... would you clarify something for me please - what do you class as "workable drive"? I mean, workable for "what"? Isn't the use of the word "workable" relative to the circumstance?

I completely agree with you that we should know and understand what we are doing, when, why and what effect (or affect) it is having on our dogs. After all, that is what training ANYTHING is about and includes not only 'punishers' but also 'rewards'. Having acknowledged that, I'm not sure what your stance is or should I say, what point your trying to make (save for the be aware of what we do when we interact with our dogs in any way). Sorry if I'm missing that and that it should be obvious to me. I've been involved in numerous discussions pertaining to a variety of dog training tools. I find it common for people to assume that because some people recognise the benefits of a certain style of training tool (and let's face it, they are all 'punishers' in one shape or form) and discuss it, an assumption is carried that they rely on the 'punisher' effect without thought to administration of 'reward'. The further assumption is that people 'enjoy' delivering a punishment. That's often not the case either. And in general those same people who have at the very least half the knowledge that makes them capable of entering a discussion about it are also already aware of the importance and effect of combining it with reward. But it is an assumption that is often asserted and carried over by the unsupported opinion of others. Are you saying Anita that in the obedience classes you watch the handlers are enjoying giving the correction to their dogs ..... ?