Erny

When pups are pups, they are naturally dependant upon us hence recalls tend to be somewhat reliable .... and we get lulled into a false sense of security. As they enter adolescence, they gain confidence/independence - they explore further and further and begin to find other novel things, as well as their freedom, as so much fun that it is sufficiently rewarding to them to ignore the recall you thought you had trained down pat. Your pup is at that age and I expect this is what has occurred. You need to make your recalls really worthwhile, building up your dog's expectations that something great and worthwhile recalling to will occur when she is called. It would also be worthwhile checking your leadership status and building on pack drive. When you recall your dog, avoid doing so when she is too far away. And when she comes back to you, reward big time! And then send her back out again to explore. IE Avoid always finishing on a note that says "You recalled. Good. Play is finished now as we're going home." You can see here that this result would not be perceived as particularly rewarding. Personally I wouldn't be focusing on "heel" so much at this age. I like to establish loose lead walking first, which requires the dog to only learn one rule .... that is, don't pull on the lead. IMO it is pretty hard for a dog (especially a young one as yours is) to maintain a heel (which requires loose lead walking skill, as well as focus on position to your left leg) when there is so much in the world to check out (smells, sights, sounds, etc.). If that is all your young dog gets to do when out on a walk, I would expect she'd find the exercise somewhat boring compared to other things that are around her. By all means practice the "heel", but if it were me I wouldn't be trying for long stretches at a time. You can keep "heel" a bit more interesting by doing (rather than mere paces in one direction) turns after just a few paces, and then a good fun release and back to simple loose lead walking which gives her an opportunity to check out what's been going on in her environment. Then throw in a bit more on "heel", and randomise with other commands such as "sit" etc. Not forgetting the fun releases in between. This should help to keep training a bit more interesting for her and motivated to work for you.

I think both your partner AND the two JRT's would benefit from a home consult. Perhaps someone from the 'outside' providing educational information on dogs; appropriate canine communication; and leadership might be better received? I beg to differ with Nekhbet in relation to the use of citronella collars. What I don't like is the idea that the smell of the citronella (which is a part of the aversive to the barking behaviour) remains on the dogs' coats even after the barking has stopped, so the dogs continue to receive a punishment (albeit a lesser one as the smell evaporates slowly) even when they are behaving well. Citronella is toxic and although it does depend on whether the dogs have a sensitivity to it that it might affect them, but there are known cases of severe reactions and even death from its use. I don't have the statistics on it and believe it affects the health of only a small % of dogs in any big way, but it is worth considering. If the dogs' temperaments allow (and with the better quality anti-bark collars that have facility to set the level to suit the dog, it's ok for many) I prefer to go to the anti-bark stim collar and skip the citronella spray collars. Alternatively, there is the JetCare spray collar system, which gives off a shot of cold compressed air. Success can be attained with these latter collars, although reportedly not to the same extent as the anti-bark stim collars. I don't like tools being used to 'fix' a problem on their own though, without being sure that any underlying cause of problem has been identified where possible, and removed. Nekhbet has touched on a couple of the aspects that could (read : not necessarily the case) be the culprits underlying the barking behaviour, but this would need to be checked out more thoroughly to be certain. I think it's great that you are interested in helping these dogs 're-learn' better habits to replace the unwanted ones, but would your partner be willing to co-operate and perhaps change a few of her 'ways' as well, so that training the JRT's into more congenial behaviour would be consistent and therefore less confusing for the dogs?

The problem with the "vibration" setting is that you can't adjust the amount of vibration to suit the dog's working level, whereas with the stim levels, you can. IMO the "vibration" is not necessarily a lesser correction .... it is a "different" correction. As to how the dog might respond, depends on the dog. But either way, it's the vibration or nothing .... no adjustment is possible and a dog might perceive the vibration as more aversive than the stim level that suits the dog's working level.

Thanks IR. I did a quick visit there shortly after bringing Mandela home ..... but wasn't looking for PJ's at the time. I expect to be passing by there on the way home from a consult tomorrow, so will try to stop in. I will certainly ask for Kate and mention your name. I'll wait 'til your pergola is done. In fact it sounds as though you have a fair amount happening to the house at the moment, so I'll let things happen there first. Must admit that my days are filled up with socialisation excursions at the moment. Did the train ride thing yesterday - he enjoyed it and of course the passengers all wanted me to sit next to them so they could pat him (more socialisation ). Paid a visit to the Moorabbin Airport and watched planes and helicopters flying around too. He was a bit "what the ??!!" for the first minute, but quickly settled down and then decided to snooze in my arms. Another 'tick' off the list . Tullamarine is next. As is a trip to CBD Melbourne, experiencing lifts in buildings etc.

:rofl: :laugh: Fantastic and Congratulations !!!! Sorry ..... no I don't visit the bubs threads. I just figured you'd post here in the training forum where we tend to congragate . I'm posting a copy of one of Chimaera's piccies here. It's my thread so I can . And I don't think Troy will mind for this moment. :wink: . She is absolutey gorgeous, Haven. And I see that she is in training for "voice projection" in preparation for running obedience classes! Glad to see you have your priorities right too. Pooey nappies must definitely have to be a 'guy' thing to do, seeing as you did all the rest of the hard work getting her here . Well done! . I'll be looking forward to meeting her . Cheers! Erny

...... I didn't even 'click' to this one!!!! I think I have puppy-brain at the moment!! Thank you for the giggle, ILTBY! And Haven!!!!! What are you doing here!!!! You keep giving big silent lapses and I keep thinking "ahhh .... this is IT". But yet nothing happened? Or is it simply that you haven't had time to adjust your baby calendar in your sig??? Is this one holding on like I did? (I was 2 weeks over-due.) Perhaps she doesn't want to go out, get a job and earn her keep and figures she likes it exactly where she is right now!! Easy street!! .

Hi IR I hope you are now well settled into your new (and more local) home . And yes, a visit definitely is in order. We have been very busy with general socialisation and my little Man is doing quite well. A little shy of other dogs at first, but it doesn't take him long to come out of his shell and want to mix with other puppies of all shapes and sizes. It's a pity the weather has been so cold though - that he is a RR it's a given that he'd feel the cold, but that he's also so young he feels it all the more. I need to hunt down some PJ's (Robbo's didn't have any) that will suit him for the interim. I haven't even had a chance to visit at my parents' place with him yet. Mainly due to the weather. They are not "indoor dog" people and though he will be allowed inside in his crate, it would be nice for a bit of sunshine so he can have a romp around their property. After yesterday's spot of sunshine (we would have visited Mum and Dad then, but he'd already had a huge day and was tired) I was hoping today would give more of the same. Perhaps later this afternoon will find the sunshine poking out from behind the clouds. Although given the cold and rain we've had for most of the morning, I could be being hopeful. If not, then I might take him out this afternoon and go for our first actual train ride (after having made a couple of progressive visits to the station over the last few days).

.... I picture him with his snorkel gear on !! Sounds as though you are working really hard to try to help him. Good for you and hope it continues to pay dividends.

.... you're apologising to yourself?? Glad the hydro is working. How often do you need to go for this treatment? Is it in conjunction with anything else?

I hope it works for you Cosmolo. And hope the hydrotherapy helps him too.

Some people speak of the 'clicker' as if it is a whole system of training unto itself. It's not - as explained it is simply a 'sound' that is used to mark wanted behaviour and to signal that a reward is to follow. The word (eg) "yes" can be used instead of the clicker, however the clicker does tend to improve the timing of this 'marker' for some people, so in that it can be very good. It is a personal thing IMO. I prefer a verbal marker. I do find dogs get to learn the subtle differences in the sounds the verbal marker can be uttered in and don't find it to slow training down any. I find the verbal marker easier as it does not tie up one hand. However some people become very adapt at using the clicker and don't find this to be an issue. That the clicker (depending on the type you get) has a 'set' sound, it can be a bit confusing for the dog if it is used in group situations (ie where other people are using same/similar sounding clicker). No - they pick up on it very, very quickly. In my experience, usually within the first session, but progressively more definite as training progresses. Yes - as is required for any training. If you're asking whether once you start with the clicker you need to always and forever use it, then no. You can introduce a marker "word" to mean the same thing, although I would not do so if you are in the middle of the 'teaching' phase of an exercise.

I would be inclined to agree with Tony. What do you think you'll need to be able to use a head collar on him for? Is something wrong? Or is it just for demonstration purposes?

If you purchase from overseas it is very likely that the collar will be ceased by customs. You are only permitted to import the collars if you have a permit to do so. You should also be aware of your own State laws for the use of the collars.

Nekhbet ... thank you. You have said it all so well and so succinctly. ;)

Nothing wrong with the "sphinx" position, but back should not be hunched up and elbows and chest should be on the ground. Sphinx position is like this .... Although I am not opposed to the 'relaxed, flipped hip, position' unless people specifically don't want it (because I figure the more comfy the dog is, the more likely they will hold their drop), the "sphinx" position is generally preferred by dog training enthusiasts. The dog is more poised to move to whatever other command the handler might give. This picture is of my avatar girl "Kal" (since passed, bless her cotton socks) and when she would lay down of her own accord to rest, she would lay with her hip flipped, more relaxed.

Refer to my "ETA" in my above post, Luke. No-one here is balling you out for asking. We're just sounding out our urgency to NOT do this and expressing reasons why.

Came in to write the same as Kavik, Persephone and CavNrott. I agree with them. I have borne witness to the severely obsessive behaviours of dogs - behaviour that started out innocently because of owners' dogs 'showing keen interest' towards laser lights. ETA: Apart from which, your dogs would not receive drive "satisfaction" from the laser light, as it is something they can never catch. All it would do is build never-ending frustration.

Just to add .... it might be worth looking at the method you're using to bring her to the "drop", whether this be by the "Guide, Show, Place" method or by "luring". It can often be the way you use your hands and where you use them that can make all the difference. ETA: (And if using the GSP method, you need to be very careful with regards to hand placement.) In my travels I see dogs dropping awkwardly and it can often be traced back to the 'handling' procedure from when the pup was first taught. But still worth having her checked as she shouldn't be sore.

I agree with Persephone. Perhaps the reason your dog has been dropping awkwardly is because she is a bit sore somewhere ..... ???

Hahahaha to HG and KI. HG ..... I am very honoured that news of my puppy has brought you out of the woodwork and into this thread :rofl:. News today is that I have settled on a name for my little man and yes, I'm going with : MANDELA :rolleyes: "Del" for short (or as his recall .... whatever). We had a big night last night, meeting Monty the Bearded Collie (who was a grumpy bum and wasn't up to 'kids' ..... preferred to treat Mandela as though he simply wasn't there, but he did get better as the night progressed) and Nooshka the Keeshond (who was nice and neutral). Mandela coped with everything in confident style. Loved the cuddles he got from my sister and flat mate and had tonnes of photo's taken by flat mate with new whizzbang camera. He fell asleep exhausted on one of the 'big dog' beds (which made him look so tiny), slept all the way home in the car and then again right throughout the night until 10 am this morning!!! Man of my own heart . Today we might go visit Robbo's Pet Barn so he can meet more people and so I can fit him for some PJ's, as typically RR, he feels the cold a lot. HG ..... Actually, I think it would be fun to bring him up for a bit of socialisation with your sheepies . I think herding is out of the question though ..... He'll probably climb up and snuggle into their woolly coats for the warmth. But I take it I have an invitation for when the time is right????? Even if it's just to say 'hello' and meet everyone?? ETA : Wish to thank everyone for their name suggestions; good wishes; and compliments

Hi all Just a reminder about this subject (yes, sorry .... yet again ). Without being too revealing via a public forum, there is very good reason to act now (refer links to MP Letter - Australia wide; Petition) if you have not done so already. I almost feel guilty for raising this thread back to the front again and I do apologise if this comes across as 'nagging', but IMO this issue is important enough to risk that. I hope that many of you see that as well.

I know KI ..... and it's something I even tell others. But this stuffs me right up because NONE of the names I've thought of for him are of one syllable. Except for yesterday, when "s#@t" formed a good part of his name (after copping a razor sharp puppy tooth to the back of my knee ;) ). I do notice he has a tendancy to turn particularly feral directly before a poo and a sleep. ..... I'm onto him!!!!

Some pictures from a couple of days ago (or was it only yesterday? ;)) ..... "My Little Man" NOT getting his own way. LOL A far cry from the very first photo in the OP

who sent the blood? was it your vet or the lab and what cost is involved? The Vet out here drew the bloods. The client sent the bloods by Fed-Ex overseas. Blood analysis was about $90(US) (I say this as an approximate, without looking them back up). Then there would have been the Fed-Ex costs as well as the local Vet fees for drawing the bloods. Blood results were known in approximately 1 week after having sent them off.

Thank you, Tony. "Little Man" certainly has the 'determination' part down pat. :rolleyes: ETA: I love the words you used to describe Mr. Mandela (the person). They collectively sum him up very well and yes, the name does give a ring of 'integrity'.