Erny

This is a good Ruffles, but you could go further if you wish (certainly wouldn't do any harm). If the food bowl (with food in it) was between you and your dog (at distances), would you be able to recall him to you and have him come to you without stopping for the food? It is not a matter of stopping him from seeking you out for attention, per sei. It is more a matter of NOT giving him attention (and that includes eye contact) WHEN he seeks it. A search using the DOL search engine will give you lots of details in relation to these things.

By your description/s, Ruffles, it does sound as though your dog perceives himself as leader .... and you as his 'pack' member (lower in heirarchy). The "leader's" function is to guard and protect the pack. Following you around is, I would expect, simply him supervising what you do and where you are. Definately look at exercising leadership. Not as you might perceive it (ie human values) but as the dog would perceive it. The suggestions to follow the "NILIF program" as well as "Triangle of Temptation" are good ones. Also make sure that YOU initiate ALL contact and not the other way around. Everything should be done on your terms, not his. Searching through the DOL archives will certainly bring up lots of reading and good advice on how to go about these things. ETA: Oh, and if you don't do so already, I'd also suggest that you be involved in your dog's obedience training in conjunction with the above. Obedience training is a good way of reminding the dog that you WILL and CAN govern what he does and when he will do it. But it doesn't often work, or doesn't necessarily work well unless the other things you do in day to day life with your dog, are in place.

I need to get ready to go to training, but I will have a go at answering to this question. :D According to K9, you socialise your pup right up until 14 weeks of age (I would have thought 16 weeks, but that's something I need to speak to Steve about - perhaps it is a 'variable' factor to take into account). Assuming you get your pup at 7 or 8 weeks, that's at least 1.5 months where you do all your socialisation - as much as possible. It is after that you cease the opportunity for the pup to receive value from other distractions such as other dogs. I'm not sure I'd want to socialise my pup with a dog aggressive dog, given the risk involved of a bad experience for the pup inside its critical learning period. Perhaps not. The extent to which you neutralisation, if at all, depends on what you want. E: A: Thanks A :D. However, I'd still want readers to quantify with K9 any of the answers I've given in case I'm off the mark. A: It is that. A: Run out of time to ponder that question and answer sufficiently. But I will say that the SARDA seminar I went to recently explained that, in the course of training, the "reward" (drive satisfaction) was always given by the handler, even though the dogs were taught to recognise that the reward would be found on the "victim's" body. So the dogs knew where the source of reward was (which motivates the dog to find the victim) but also know that without the handler, they would not receive the reward as the handler is the one in control of it (which motivates the dog to get the handler to come to the victim and ensures the dog will continue to return to the handler to guide them to him/her).

Do you mind me attempting at least a part answer? I'd be really pleased if K9 would jump in and confirm that I'm on the right track too. "Neutralisation" is a program complimentary to "drive training". With drive training, you are likely to achieve a very high degree of reliability. With drive training AND the neutralisation, I'd suggest the degree of reliability would be 100%.

Yep ... you ignore that 'gut' feeling and you run a higher risk of crapping your pants.

Hi Amhailte. First, I am compelled to explain that I have not been in a position to take a dog through the neutralisation process in a multi-dog household or for that matter, at all. Any neutralisation my dog has achieved has been due to her initial "negative" values to certain things and I doubt that I would have got her much past the "zero" mark, if at all, even with more effort. However, I think I correctly recall K9's answer to another such question as yours. If the original dog is neutralised, then I wouldn't expect it to be as big a problem, as the original dog wouldn't be fussed about the new dog. Although interaction is possible especially when the dogs are left alone during the day. This shouldn't affect the neutralised dog, but I expect it would impact on the neutralisation training of the new dog. But certainly, if the original dog is NOT neutralised then the two dogs would be best to NOT be housed to freely interact together until neutralisation of the new dog is completed (around 14 months of age, as K9 suggested). Neutralisation is something that you take as far or as little as what suits your needs. Where K9 for his purposes and preference might neutralise to the "zero" mark on the scale I 'drew' in an earlier response, some others might socialise to the "5" mark or beyond. It depends on what your end expectations and goals are. I THINK K9's dogs are neutralised to EVERYONE (family included) except for himself. Others may not want it so, so they don't follow the program to a "T". But of course, that's a compromise on the program and you might not end up achieving the absolute preciseness of what would otherwise be possible. It's a case of "can't have your cake and eat it too". If you get what I mean. Like Myszka, I too am flattered to be included along side K9's name and I am enjoying my attempts to explain and answer in writing. It is one thing to understand a concept (to a reasonable degree, at least). Another to be able to answer the questions of others and in this I'm not entirely sure I've done an acceptable job. So I standby, once more, for K9's input and hope that I am not perceived as having over-trodden his domain.

Aaaaaggghhhh! Soon, I hope. I so need to get out and let the hair down!!!!! I'll check you for walking straight lines straight after. Sorry peoples .... . Won't do it again. :D

Try working on some more left about and left turns. TOO many of these might end up straightening but also pushing your dog away from you, so randomise with right about and right turns to recreate the 'tightness' of the heel. ETA: Release and reward for the first few straight steps (don't try to keep it going too long) and then ask for more and more steps (with straight body). And it goes without saying that you use successive approximation as your schedule of reinforcement. The "banana body" heel will receive little reward whereas the straight body heel will receive high level reward. Eventually, the "banana body" heel will receive no reward at all and will be counted as unacceptable.

Is that before ....... or after a long lunch, LL?

Play/exercise will often stimulate elimination. Once play is done, are you coming inside too soon? Or are you giving her time to stop and think about releasing her bladder?

:cool: Noisy. Knew there'd be a good explanation from you. Yes - it does sound a bit 'off' on the trainer's part. Glad you got your Dobe past her fear of the tunnel. I work many fearful dogs on agility type equipment for the benefit of building trust (and therefore enhancing obedience training), but I don't push for tunnels. I usually ask the dog to do things such as getting up on a box/table/chair (depending on the height of the dog). These sorts of things can do wonders for building up a dog's confidence, and whilst it might need to be coaxed, it should not be an overtly stressful activity for the dog and works far better for confidence if it has ultimately been the dog's decision to negotiate the obstacle. Sorry folks and Noisy, for going . I just have a compulsive need to explore both sides of some stories, just in case there's some misunderstanding involved.

Could that be because the good trainers ARE here? On a serious note (and not knowing details), could this be because the trainer 'pushed' the dog (I mean in a proper/nice way) and the dog isn't used to being 'pushed'? Not being defensive - a sincere question. Sometimes I've worked with dogs who have never been asked to do anything in their lives, who walk all over their owners and then object when I won't allow the same. I'm not suggesting this is your scenario, Noisy. I've seen your posts and believe you know better. But is it possible? Or perhaps it WAS a case of 'bad' training on the part of the trainer?

Sad part is, HR .... the same scenario has occurred on more than two occasions. ...... Not the "sister/brother" thing (although you never know :confused:) but the undesexed male/female thing and the behaviours (and results ) that come from that. How on earth do you keep a look of disbelief off your face? I'm not expecting tooooooo much, am I?

Kal will poo (if there's poo to be had) if there's no wee left. Can't say she responds to the black poo bag, though. I think she figures it's something I simply collect valuables in. Wonder if they ever wonder why we want their poo so much and so badly. I expect they think they're doing us a big favour.

Hey! Another "pet peeve" ...... and that is, a SERIOUS lack of common sense. Behaviour problem posed to Erny: My dog (points to SWF at end of lead) is humping my other dog at home. Erny asks: What sex is this dog (points to SWF at end of lead)? Answer: Male Erny asks: Desexed? Answer: No Erny asks: What sex is other dog at home? Answer: Female Erny asks: Desexed? Answer: No Duh

Kal's is "quick quick". Didn't know the Guide Dogs have this as theirs too, until fairly recently. Teaching a toilet command is actually Classical Conditioning. Similar to "Pavlov's Dog" ... where the result was that a bell would ring and the dog would salivate (involuntary response). Repeat it enough and it will "occur". Youngsters don't seem to have the bladder control necessary to be able to cope with other big emotionalities happening at the same time (eg. excitement, anxiety etc.). Provided they are not inadvertently reinforced for the behaviour, the 'condition' generally improves with age.

Pardon my ignorance ...... what's an "epi-pen" ?

Mmmmm, yes. I'd like to hear. Hope it's good progress.

Quadruple post!!!! Gremlins .... little rotters.

Oh dear! Triple post!

Shoot! Double post .... then DOL wouldn't let me back in to fix it, until now!

Drive blocks pain. A survival trait. Can you otherwise imagine the rotten survival rate when wolf gets a little knock while he's trying to take down prey?

Get your face confused with the ball, did he?

Oh - and I'd like to add that working up some speed in drop compliance assists with attaining a square drop. (Mind you, attaining a square drop assists with speed compliance too ... so it's a bit of a catch 22.) Have you tried working her up in drive and then commanding and luring quickly to drop? Reward/release very quickly once the chest and elbows are on the ground, so he won't have time to flip a hip.

Try physically positioning your dog on the way down into the drop. Then click and reward. Repeat (just as if you are only beginning to teach the drop.) ONLY reward these drops. That's one option. Does your dog drop from the sit, or from the stand? I tend to find that a drop from the stand is more likely (but not guaranteed) to attain a square drop than one from a sit. Although I aim for square drops from a stand when I train, I am of the view that if the dog is comfortable, he is more likely to hold the drop when working for stay work and so long as his chest and elbows are on the ground, I might not worry too much about pushing for 'square'. (Similarly, some dogs tuck a front leg under when they're comfortable.) Depends on the dog, really, and whether or not the 'flipped hip position' is affecting any part of the dog's training. Of course it aslo depends what the owner requires.