Erny

Look forward to seeing you there, LL.

Hi Corine :D I'm NDTF trained and let me say that I have met with one or two "Delta trained" people. Have found them to be very nice. It's not the course that makes the person, it's the course that makes the trainer. (Well - to a big extent anyway.) This is not to suggest that the Delta Course doesn't produce good trainers. From what I can gather from those who I've spoken to about it, the only thing I have to say on the Delta Course is that it is a bit narrower in its training principals course coverage compared to NDTF. I wouldn't mind doing the Delta Course myself, though - even though I've done NDTF. Even though it would go over training principles of which I'm already familiar, I can only assume (by the length of the course) that it might go over the selective principals a bit more? (Unless NDTF is a bit more intensive, perhaps?) I have had some tell me this is not the case though, and unfortunately the cost of the course is a bit prohibitive for me to take the risk for curiousity sake. I do note that some time ago a "Delta trained" person here on DOL accused NDTF trained people of being unhelpful snobs, though. Don't know why. I know I'm only one of a great number of NDTF trained trainers who love meeting, speaking to and helping others and exchanging/discussing different ideas and philosophies on dog training.

:D Maybe I could organise 'board' for you?

Yep - straight from your mouth and hopefully into that of your dog's. Me? It tends to go anywhere and everywhere but.

Great that you are making progress. Another tip - try to have Bella walk out to her toilet spot, rather than you carry her. This will help her learn more quickly how to navigate her own way to the proper toilet spot. Congratulations on picking up a bargain crate!

Hi Petmezz :D I agree with you. I remember when I did my course, I was running a full time plus business on my own and had other outside commitments as well. Doing the course took up any and every spare moment I had. Before I started the course, I knew I didn't know much in the way of dog training. By doing the course, I realised that whilst I'd learnt absolutely heaps, I realised how much more about dogs there was to know. Because I put in all the 'mandatory' training hours early in the course, I had course time remaining to put in extra. Even though I had little to no time for much else in life (save for my animal commitments, which always did and do remain a priority), I was quite sad when the course ended. I loved it and was enthralled by the information given. I went on to do a further couple of specialist courses available, but could easily have become a professional student in the field of dogs, dog training and behaviour. ....................... Actually, in a way, I guess I have! Glad you're enjoying it, it seems, as I did and do.

PB - make notes of the times your pup 'goes' and what has preceded that (ie what time it played, slept etc.). The pattern this reveals will help you assess how long between toilets your pup can handle. This will in turn help you work out what time you need to get up during the night. If you can get close to spot on with this information, you'll get into a good pattern .... and then housetraining will occur much faster and before you know it, you'll be able to take advantage of a (well deserved) sleep through. ;)

to Oscar, Lucinda and Ollie ...... and to their humans. It's a turmoilish, time consuming job you guys do, and is not without its emotional roller coaster ride. Good luck. Thinking of you all. And of Rusky's Goldie too, who last communication I understood was doing better. :D

Not giving her long enough. As per Tassie's suggestion - wait and be there when she 'goes'. To not do so, you're missing an opportunity to reinforce her and it will make it more difficult for her to judge what behaviour carries the larger advantage. Think about it: 1. Wees outside. You're not there. Advantage? = bladder relief. 2. Wees inside. You're not there. Advantage? = bladder relief. See how the difference between the two is zilch? And if you take scenario number 2 (above) and add an aversive (eg. yelling at her) then all the difference that makes is that Wees outside is ok. Wees inside is ok. But not when you're around. "You" then become the common denominator and the carry over affect can be that your pup won't wee in your presence, whether that be inside or outside. The other thing you must be conscious of is WHAT (other) BEHAVIOURS you are REINFORCING. If you let your pup in when it cries, you are reinforcing whining behaviour and before you know it, you will be needing help on getting your dog to not whine so much for everything. So careful about what you do and when. It is good that things are beginning to progress for your pup. Continue your vigilance and be timely with reinforcement. :D

I don't show .... but I didn't think you were allowed to have food treats in the show ring. Or is that with obedience trials?

This is just it - you're relying on a puppy to somehow know that it should let you know it needs the toilet. A toilet trained dog (with toilet training well completed) will often do this because it's LEARNT not to go in the house. Don't expect it from a pup who hasn't learnt to not toilet inside and is, in fact, learning that it's ok to do so. What say you set the alarm clock and get up a few times throughout the night. Within one or two days/nights you should be able to assess when your pup needs/wants to go. When you work out that it is (eg) 4.00 am, get up at 3.30 am and take it to toilet. Then stretch it out in time increments - say 20-30 mins. Your pup's bladder has to train to hold on for longer periods at a time. Precisely my point. Count yourself lucky. Truthfully, I would have thought people would have checked this sort of stuff out before they get their pups home, so they know what to do for the best, rather than waiting for the problems and then asking. But hey, here we are - ever ready to help out provided you follow the advice. You guessed it! But don't think for a second that means you can crate your pup and ignore for long periods. It's only for those moments when you can't keep a strict eye on her. And if you leave her in it for longer than her bladder can cope, you'll teach her to soil her bed as well. Although I can only imagine how hard it would be having 4 kids and shuffling around them all the time (I presume they are only very youngsters, seeing as they haven't learnt to put their things away), I'm surprised if this is the case that you manage to find the time for one, let alone two, dogs!

Tia .... with all the suggestions, tips and hints that have been given to you so far, I suspect you know the answer to your problems already. If your pup toilets inside the house, then that's one less toilet that it would have done outside and one less time for opportunity to reinforce toileting in the right area. The more you fail to prevent accidents happening inside the house, the longer housetraining will take and the less reliable it will be ..... all because, at the very beginning, you were not consistent and vigilant. No, crate training isn't cruel. What would make you think it so? Pups and Dogs prefer to soil away from their sleeping and eating areas (unless pups are born and raised in an environment where they could not help but fail to develop the habit of soiling away from those areas). The point of the crate is to encourage the pup to 'hold on', giving you a chance to get the pup out for toileting in the correct place and then reinforcing it for doing so. I would recommend you purchase the book "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson. Amongst other things that I know would be beneficially educational, there is a really well described section on crate training and how to do it. It too points out that PREVENTION of accidents inside the house is the way to go. Unfortunately, many people who acquire pups don't think about the temporary disruption to their normal routines - and yet it puzzles me that a real break from routine and dedication and vigilance towards a new born baby is naturally accepted and quite often understood without having read books, asked questions etc. Eg. Why does my pup chew things it shouldn't? Because it has access. But if one had a newly crawling toddler, we seem to be able to automatically think to baby proof the house to prevent access to these sorts of things, and/or purchase a play pen for the toddler to safely play in when we can't be as vigilent as necessary. And when people bring their newborn baby home, they don't seem to expect they can go to bed and sleep uninterrupted until their usual wake up time. Why do we seem to expect to be able to do that when we bring home a puppy? In fact, I think the job of rearing a pup in those early weeks demands even more vigilance, because it not only has to learn the habits that we want it to learn, but many of those behaviours are natural to a dog and we have to turn those behaviours around to something that suits our human requirements in the household. Crate train your puppy - go ahead. It is a good thing, when done properly. And be vigilant when your pup's inside. PREVENT the accidents. Take your pup out often for toilet opportunities, which, as I said, are opportunities for you to reinforce it.

When you think of all the other things we do in the general, run of the mill care of the dog throughout its life - such as clearing up dog vomit from the floor; inspecting repugnant areas of the dog's body for ailments; picking up dog poo .... and even inspecting it to ascertain whether it eliminated the foreign body it stole from the rubbish bin 24-48 hours ago; collecting wee samples for testing at the Vet's etc. etc. ....... putting bits of food in your mouth (it doesn't have to be food made specially for dogs) and spitting it out isn't that gross after all. And I've seen the experts do it - it's more of a neat "ping plop" rather than a messy sloppy spit. Oh - and I've had dogs take food from my mouth. I do this in cases of extreme submission and where the dog needs to build up confidence in me BUT only if I'm certain the dog's not likely to take my lips with it.

Now HG, come on .... fess up. I've seen you with your purse.

What? You spit food from your ears and nostrils too? :D

For those who wish to check for the presence of SD in food write to the following: Food Intolerance Network P.O. Box 718 Woolgoolga NSW 2456 Include 2 x 50 cent stamps for each test strip you want. Include a self stamped addressed envelope. I'm sending off for 5 x strips (ie 10 x 50c stamps). Just to check.

Quite a number of people use this method and it works well for them. I don't like it though .... I don't like the idea of cold frankfurt or sausage in my mouth and besides, I can't spit straight. Also, the dog first needs to be taught to 'catch' the food, which, unless one is careful, can lead to snatching. I'd also find this difficult, because Kal is "food refusal" trained, which means she won't reach for a piece of food unless she hears her eat password first. Must admit I tried it, but even when I throw it, Kal will let it land on her head, nose or anywhere else on her body it might land (even with the eat password), let it tumble to the ground, and then will eat it ..... totally defeating the whole purpose and encouraging her more to look at the ground rather than me. Other thing is, I find it difficult to use the marker word "yes" when I have food in my mouth, and usually accidentally find myself spitting food willy nilly. I guess that's one place where the clicker would be more useful. :D But then, that's just me. I'm a clutz when it comes to food spitting. Some people are sharp shooters in their spitting precision. But, aside from all that, why do you think its "disgusting", Troysmum? The dogs don't generally mind a bit of human spit.

DBS ..... I have everything crossed for an outcome that can at least be medically treated with good results. They have drugs which can do wonders with certain heart conditions - but then, you probably know more than I do in that respect. Hugs and wishes for the good luck you and your furkids deserve.

I have spoken with Robert McDowall's and have arranged for some mixtures to be sent down. I have also communicated with Tim ( thank you, Tim) who may also be able to give my girl some attentions to further aid in improving the quality of the time she has left. Tim - I've also followed through on the other 'lead' you gave me and am waiting a call back. As I have said to Tim it makes me feel better (less helpless) that I am at least working to do something to make things nicer for my girl.

Note: There is a significant difference, so I believe, between Irritable Bowel Disease and Irritable Bowel Syndrome. Don't quote me, but I'm sure I read this and heard this from a number of different but reliable sources. Hope everything begins to improve for your dog, Isaviz. It's so frustrating for us when the dog can't specifically tell us what they are feeling and where and that we can't simply see what's going on on the inside.

Who is Dean Rankin? What's his background?

Edited because I put someone on the spot - forgot my manners. Sorry. Holistically speaking, any suggestions that would be of help to Kal? Even just by way of tonic to make her remaining life a bit more comfortable?

Thanks all. Kal is quiet today .... a bit low at times, although still very ready for every meal. We spent today with me working in the garden (more to keep myself busy and distracted than anything else) and Kal looking on, supervising as usual. I had to stop every now and again to move her beanbag to a new sunny spot as the day moved on. Kal's Vet called today. Given yesterday's event, he agrees that whilst we always suspected there were 'other' things happening, these 'other' things now appear to be more significant than not. He agrees with my decision not to proceed with surgery. He has mentioned there are things that can be done to investigate Kal's health issues further, but concurs that, even if we manage to find out the answers, chances are there will be little we can do or should do, particularly given her age. I have informed Guy that I feel enough is enough. She has been poked and probed enough as it is, this in itself is a stressful event for Kal, given that she worries at the proximity of strangers (especially Vets). I think her remaining time should be one of peace, gentleness and calm and that's what I plan to provide her as much as is humanly possible. I have Guy's total support in my decision and thoughts. We have decided to withdraw Kal from the pre-surgery meds she was on. I did point out that they seemed to make her calmer in times when she would otherwise be shaking (eg. when at the Vets). Guy has suggested I see how she is without the meds, but if I see she is better on them, he would agree to continue the prescription of the meds should I ask. Thanks for your suggestion, Lablover. I'm not sure what human specialists would be able to offer and with the above in mind, whether anything further should be undertaken. But unless you know something possible that I don't, I'd welcome any discussion with a view to non-invasive, non-traumatic treatment.

This morning, Kal was quite chirpy. We got up - she did her usual routine of waiting on her outdoor beanbag in the morning sunshine while I had my breaky and then fixed hers. Her appetite was good and, having licked her bowl clean, thoroughly checking the floor and hoping for bits that just might have dropped there, joined me in the 'office', where she took her place on her bed/mattress. Having responded to a couple of emails and completed a call from the Vet's assistant, I no sooner hung up the phone when Kal threw a fit/seizure. In terms of my experience of fits (limited), this appeared quite violent. Foam/froth everywhere, legs kicking stiffly and wildly, mouth gnashing. I think time slowed down for me (adrenoline at its best) and I aborted any fleeting idea about rushing to a Vet. I stayed with her, spoke to her and stroked her throughout the ordeal. I doubt she was actually conscious of what was happening. She certainly wasn't 'there' - I could see that from her eyes - pupils had diminished to pinhole size, but I do feel she knew my presence. After about 3 minutes, the fitting subsided and Kal gradually returned to consciousness. Very similar to a dog coming out of GA. She wanted to get up, but couldn't manage, so propped herself up against me in a 'sit' position. After a further 10 minutes or so, she groggily managed to stand on her somewhat wobbly and foreign legs and began to walk around. I did ring the Vet's assistant, who suggested that once things had settled I take Kal to my local emergency clinic. I told her I didn't think I would. More poking and probing - probably going over old ground. Kal, I feel, has had more than her fair share of this and I think would be glad of simply being allowed to rest in peace and without added stresses. I think the Vet's assistant agreed with me. For the next 1 hour, she would not relax, would not lay down, would walk around inside the house and around outside the back yard. It seemed that her legs didn't quite belong to her, having a bit of a mind of their own. She appeared confused; disorientated. I did note, however, that she had the clarity of mind to check her food bowl for extras along the way. . During this time, the water in the saucepan in which her chicken fillet was steaming boiled dry but fortunately did not spoil - although I did end up with a considerably black saucepan and an amount of smoke in the kitchen. I wasn't sure if Kal was going to last, and if this was going to be the case, then I wanted to deliver at least one of the few pleasures in her life, so quickly prepared the chicken suitably for her to eat, which she did with gusto. I hand feed her the chicken, and I noticed she'd forgotten some of her bite inhibition in her eagerness. A little afterwards, she finally layed down on her bean bag, which I'd positioned in the morning sun and there we sat for the next couple of hours. Me giving her the other pleasure in her life ......... belly and underarm tickles/rubs. ;) By this stage, Kal was very obviously exhausted from the ordeal and fought sleep - again, similarly to a dog who's been given sedative. I was going to do Kal's nails today (she hates it!). I told her this was one hell of a way to get out of that one! Come 2.45pm, she seemed a bit more 'herself', although quiet and still a little tired, but not as 'clingy' to me as she was earlier. Just for a break, though, I helped her into the car and took her to one of our local parks. We spent a minute with her sniffing stories from a few of the trees, but I could see that was enough and we returned to the car and then home, where I fed her an early dinner (to her delight). After that, I think both of us were 'feeling it' so we went to our respective beds (hers is next to mine) for a rest. This is where she is now (although she has been up once or twice since), and she seems comfortable albeit a bit worn out. As a result of today, I feel there are more things going on than meets the eye and I think this has been my deciding factor to NOT procede to surgery on Monday. Although things change day by day and minute by minute, I am not so confident that Kal would make it through surgery anyway. I had previously asked for some sort of sign to tell me whether surgery was right for her or not. I can't help feeling today's episode was that sign. I don't know what's going to happen in the days/weeks(?) ahead. My remaining wish (as it always has been) is that Kal be relieved of any further fuss and bother from being poked, probed and visited by Vets, by being blessed with a peaceful passage to the other side of the bridge. Whatever the case, I will do whatever shall become necessary for Kal's benefit and comfort. Thank you to everyone for your thoughts, well wishes, support and kindness throughout Kal's journey over the last few months. Sharing with you has helped immensly - more than some may imagine, and has been a great source of comfort and strength. I will let you know how things go, over time, for Kal. For now, though, our plan is for one day at a time. ;)

You don't think Ollie's tampering his own blood cell count, now do you ...... just for all the added benefits? Maybe pushing for Tim Tams? ;) Sorry, Jodie. The news is not good and is damn frustrating. I do admire the way you seem to handle all these set backs. Good on you. Take care of yourself (and Ollie dog, of course! )