Erny

But, if food is this dog's favourite motivator, what good is the "click" if it can't be paired with something the dog REALLY enjoys? I'm more surprised that this training school does not permit rewarding with food treats (assuming this proves to be the dog's favourite motivator) than I am that they insist on check chains. And Staffyfreak, a verbal marker, applied with good timing and voice, can be just as valuable to the dog if trained in the same way as one would a clicker, IMO. It also leaves your hand free to reward the dog with a prey toy (eg. rope bone) if your dog perceives such an item as 'fun'.

Hi Mel. I don't presume your post (or that of the post from where the quotes were taken) were directed at me, but I would like to reiterate that I've pretty much made reference to this element of 'leadership' not necessarily being the act that makes much if any difference to the dog's attitude. However, as I've also mentioned, where a behaviour issue exists, it does not matter to include it as part of the regime simply to cover all bases. Experience has surprised me when an improvement to an issue can be made when even the smallest of "leadership regimes" is applied, even though the relevance of it has and continues to be argued by esteemed experts. Whether these 'small' things make a difference or not greatly depends on the individual dog, but what matter if it is applied? Sometimes I often think that the application of these 'regimes' actually assists the dog's owners by programatically and routinely teaching them to 'act' assertively in the presence of their dog. Whether it is the actual "act" itself that sends a message to the dog and achieves a positive response, or simply that their owner has, by rout, become habitual in routine and assertiveness with the way the dogs are regarded/treated, the 'argument' (old or new) does not, IMO, matter one iota if the 'system' is working. I think I also previously mentioned that when "issues" are resolved, it is possible to relax one of the "lesser important" factors at a time, and note whether this then makes a difference to the individual dog. In the end, what matters is that unwanted behaviour issues are resolved.

It is always such a worry, when our beloved pets are not well. I will add Goldie to my thoughts and wishes for a return to health. Good luck, and let us know how she gets on.

The 'good' days are a treasure to behold. I wish for you and Lucinda many more of those days.

The following is from THIS link: http://www.thepetcenter.com/gen/kf.html DIETARY CONSIDERATIONS Contrary to popular myth, diets rich in protein ("high protein levels") do not cause kidney damage. Research done decades ago indicated that rodent kidneys were adversely affected by diets high in protein... and misguided researchers extrapolated that data to apply to the canine. There is no evidence that feeding dogs and cats diets rich in or "high" in protein actually causes kidney damage or disease. Some day this myth will be finally be put to rest. In fact, there is ample research and well documented studies that prove that dogs and cats thrive on diets with levels of protein consistent with a meat-eater's (carnivore) natural prey selection. Read more about protein in dog and cat diets here. Additionally, documented research on dogs indicates that reducing dietary protein levels in older dogs may be unwise; however, if kidney damage is already present to the extent that the BUN levels are 75mg/dl or above, some restriction of dietary protein may be beneficial for metabolic reasons... not renal reasons. "...restriction of protein intake does not alter the development of renal lesions nor does it preserve renal function." (See KIRKS VETERINARY THERAPY XIII, Small Animal Practice, W. B. Saunders, page 861). Restricting dietary protein may be helpful to those patients whose BUN levels are rather high and that are already in advanced kidney failure. There are other sites available if you google "Canine Kidney Infections". I don't know anything about this topic, but from what I can gather, you might need to determine from your Vet what sort of infection it is that is affecting your dog's kidneys. Sorry that I am not much more help than that. I do hope Goldie recovers soon.

Hi Abs I think I have so much to think about regarding Kal's care, that I'm probably not as "nervewrecked" as I otherwise would be. Sometimes, though, damned frustrated. We went for a walk at the park today. It was a 'good' day for Kal today. Although she struggled to get up on the back seat of the car, whe managed one full lap of the park once we got there. Up until recently, she was down to half or even only one quarter the distance. It's her third day of cooked chicken and she's been on Vitamin B1 & B12 for 1.5 days.

And before long you completely forget about feeding your dog at all ......

Seems like you've had your work cut out for you in Lucinda's care, DBS .... and, like others who are otherwise vitally occupied, you've still always had the time to help me and others fighting our own dilemmas. I am not anywhere near as capable as you have shown yourself to be in knowledge pertaining to health issues, so I have nothing to offer you in that respect. But I do send my warmest wishes to you and Lucinda for luck and health.

Oh oh ..... did I misunderstand your OP, DBS? I interpreted it to mean that coming up 4 years on, still remission If my earlier post is inappropriate, please clarify for me.

Pardon my ignorance, Pampa .... but is your girl's suffering akin to Leukemia? Is that kind of what we're talking about here? Just sounds a bit like it to me .... not that I'm an expert in that field either.

Oh .... this is good! for Lucinda, and Kal and my best wishes for continued good results and health. What holistic treatments have you employed, DBS?

Nor did I specify that you HAD to bite the end off one corner and suck your cup of coffee through it. ;)

Hi Scottie .... thanks for posting. Unfortunately, I can't recall why the Vet told me that about Enzyplex. I have consulted with so many Vets so many times regarding Kal's problems for so long, that some information has become a bit hazy. If you want to PM me, I can tell you the name of the Vet who told me this and will more than likely be able to look up his phone number (he's located in Castlemaine, Victoria - there are two Vet clinics there). I have some vague recollection that whilst I was feeding pro-biotics, enzyplex was ok, but that I shouldn't continue with enzyplex once the pro-biotics had finished. I don't even think he said "why" or that I even asked him, at the time. But please don't quote me. I've got so much 'detail' rattling around in my brain that I fear I've got this totally about faced and upside down. And my conversation with him was over 1 year ago. It may even have been said in direct relation to Kal and her sensitivities, rather than as a general thing to say. Hope your girl continues to improve. It's tough, isn't it .... and something that seems to require constant monitoring and adjusting. Thanks for the 'fish' suggestion. I'll see how she goes on the cooked chicken for a bit. If that goes pear shaped, then I'll set my mind to thinking about fish - although given that Kal reacted to Joint Formula (containing green lipped muscle - it set her off on the last bout of IBS from which I've never been able to take her off her IBS diet) I'm a bit cautious about feeding her any kind of seafood for the absence of knowing what affect it might have on her.

Thanks Helen. Kal's meals are split into two. I find it difficult to portion it out any more, as there are those days when my life commitments (ie work) take me away and there is no one else to feed her. When I introduced the chicken to her over Easter, I fed them as 'treats', so it was fed in little chunks throughout the day. After the bout of vomiting, I left it for almost 2 days. I've reintroduced it but now I am cooking it (steaming). I still feed it to her as treats, rather than in one big hit. She still gets her other two meals as normal. Touch wood .... it's only been a couple of days of me doing the cooked chicken so things could still go wrong, but so far so good. I've had Kal on digestive enzymes (when I had cause to return her to her IBS diet last October and which I haven't been able to get her off of). Enzyplex. The Vet who prescribed the diet informed me that she shouldn't remain on the Enzyplex for an extensive period of time, so after about 8 weeks, I took her off it. I did return her to it (experimentally) a bit later, to see if it made any difference, but I could detect none at the time. That's been the difficult part - sometimes, when I've tried something out and it 'goes wrong', I wonder if it was coincidental, as there have been times when Kal has been on her usual food (IBS) only and still vomited (although not as badly as she did recently after the chicken).

You're right - with some dogs it doesn't seem to make any difference. They seem happy enough with any small element of assertiveness you exhibit to respect you as leader. IMO, the most important things is, as I think I mentioned in my earlier posts, the "NILIF" (Nothing In Life Is Free) and owner initiating contact regimes and, of course, obedience training. BUT in the case of problems developing (and the big problem here is owners not recognising the early signs), or when problems are full blown (in which case it is more difficult and requires very strong, clear and consistant signals for the dog to oberserve), I would recommend these other anomolies (ie not on couch, bed, eating first etc.) be practiced. Once harmony between dog/human rules once more and is stable, it may be possible to relax some of these anomolies - usually one at a time to see WHAT makes a difference, if any. But I always suggest that re-introduction of these practices be on the owner's terms, not the dogs. (Eg. Teach the dog it may ONLY get up on the couch when it receives a command. Likewise, it must get down on a command.) I recently saw an owner with a dog who had become aggressive to its owners. I was surprised the dog should do this, because the owners were doing everything right - the dog was highly obedience trained, the owners were not push overs (but they were fair). The dog wasn't allowed on couches etc. There were only a couple of small things I could adjust, one of which was not having the dog sleep on the mat which was right next to the owner's bed, nor right next to the couch where the owner sat. (Respecting the owner's personal 'space'.) Although I believe (and still do) there is more to this dog's aggression (signs for which had not been apparent in its early days and which had only developed in the last number of months before I was consulted), according to the owners the dog's aggression subsided considerably when this measure was put into place. I know the arguments about whether these small things do or don't make a difference, but the way I see it, where there is a behaviour problem, what harm to work it in - at least for the time being until the behaviour problem/s is sorted. Just my view.

Not if you take your dog out for an extra walk each day ....

KK

Although I place more store in the importance of "NILIF" and the owner initiating contact than anything else, when I am consulted due to problems my view is to 'wipe the slate clean' so as to leave no doubt in the dog's mind. Hence, I will include 'eating before the dog' in the regime requested of the owners. I don't believe it is necessarily sufficient to simply have your dinner and then at some stage (after having chatted, cleared the table, washed the dishes etc. etc.) feed the dog. If there is a message to send from eating before the dog, will the dog perceive it as we intend if the time gap is large enough? So, to keep it simple and easy, I say it doesn't really matter when the humans eat compared to that of the dog. Merely prepare the dog's meal in its bowl in full view of the dog, on a bench where the dog can't reach it. Have a human biscuit next to the bowl. Take the biscuit, turn around and eat the biscuit in view of the dog. Then take the dog bowl and give the dog its meal. In doing this, it doesn't matter if you decide to go out for dinner, want dinner later/earlier etc. And if the dog IS receiving the message we're desiring to send it through doing this, it isn't likely it will be thinking "hello, hello .... I saw that - you were eating a HUMAN biscuit!". The biscuit can be something like a watercrest, if you're saving your appetite for dinner. Or (and the kiddies love this one!) a chocolate biscuit, if that's your inclination. (Good excuse for anyone, I say. )

Oh, Pampa ..... I'm so sorry this is your news. You know I was hoping for something better. I have nothing to offer you other than empathy for the struggle you are going through and a shoulder and a sympathetic ear, should you need one at any time. Keep being strong (as you can) .... and receive this with the hope in my heart that things will turn around and improve for your girl.

If there is such a thing as trepadent impatience, then yes, I am. Between your girl, Ollie and Kal, my apendages are so crossed I wonder if they'll ever be the same again. I do so hope the test results bring good news.

Guy rang me last night. We spoke for about one hour or thereabouts. Some of the stuff he spoke about was a bit complicated for me (big names ), but in essence, here is my interpretation of what he tells me: In this instance, there are 3 types of tumours. Kal either has the "best" type of tumour (Tumour "A") .... ie benign, or the worst type .... ie malignant with propensity to invade blood vessels etc. (Tumour "C") Guy feels that she may have the worst type, although the good news is that the ultrasound indicates that it has not invaded and is reasonably encapsulated. But the result of this tumour is the abnormal release of adrenalin to which the body can become habituated to. If they surgically remove the tumour, resulting in a withdrawal of the adrenaline levels her body has become accustomed to, she can quickly go into shock, the result of which is often death. I have an appointment to take Kal back to Werribee on Wednesday, 26th April. There, he wants to do another lot of blood pressure tests, and also a further urine test to try to better narrow down what sort of tumour we are dealing with. If the results still indicate Tumour C, then Kal requires pre-medication for a period of 2 weeks prior to surgery. The point of this is to regulate the release of adrenaline to reduce the chance of shock during and after surgery. If the tumour is encapsulated as the ultrasound suggests, survival chances are 70/30%. If not, then we're looking at 50/50% chance. There is one part of the adrenal gland the radiologist was not able to see by way of ultrasound and they will have to check this "on the way in" (ie at the time of surgery). Guy could not predict life span without surgery. For that matter, he could not predict life span with surgery (assuming it is successful). I might have some of my memory of the conversation a bit "a-about", but I think I'm reasonably close to the mark in my simple interpretations. In the meantime, I am supplementing Kal with thiamine (B1) and also on B12 (for good measure). I'm doing this as a result of the recent report on Sulphur Dioxide in pet foods. Kal is on human grade roo mince, but it crossed my mind that maybe there are levels of SD in the mince I get (there are no labels on it) and I even wondered if her symptoms (and tumour?) could be a result of thiamine deficiency. Anyway, I am about to order "Nutrigel" as a general supplement too. I need to get some weight on her and build her strength as much as I am able to. She's gonna need it. To this end, I thought I'd re-try chicken (human grade) in her diet (to see if I can increase the fat content). I began this last Friday night. Come Sunday late afternoon she was vomiting and lost all the contents of her stomach. She was subsequently so forelorn and weak that I was close to tears from the sheer helplessness I felt. She is a little better now, but seems almost continuously tired and lethargic. She can now barely manage some steps I have to the decking out the back .... her back legs are so weak. So, it seems I may know more on 26th April .... or at least once the urine test results come back and I expect Guy will then discuss scheduling her for surgery. Thank you for asking after her. And Pampa .... how's your girl going? Will she be fit for travel? Would you let us know? Thank you Loraine Blood tests ruled out Cushing's.

Hi DB. HERE'S a link to a not so old thread asking for same/similar info. :rolleyes:

Such a shame Hugh Wirth of RSPCA and the Government banned prong collars in Victoria. Silly them. Although the collars look awful they are, in my opinion, kinder than check chains. Having said that, ANY piece of equipment used inappropriately can cause damage to the dog, including head collars.

Naaaahh, I don't believe any of what you say ..... I might just have to come over and see him for myself when he gets home. Congratulations on his arrival, Labs.

I agree, Hedds. It kind of got distorted with the argument of having to declare position when recommending. I guess conversation can do that sometimes. I hope the OP returns here and lets us know how things went and how they are going.