Erny

Hi Pampa. First medication tonight. But thought I'd wait until I return from a party I'm invited to. I want to be around 'just in case' of any side affect. How is your girl, Pampa?

Kal's meds arrived today. Just to clarify something that I got confused about somewhere along these recent times. The meds block the affect of adrenal chemicals at the receptor. The purpose is to try to regulate the release of those adrenal chemicals so that the body won't be 'shocked' at their sudden withdrawal at surgery. A lowering of blood pressure can occur and this is where fainting or dizziness might occur (although Guy believes this to be unlikely). I had cause to speak to Guy tonight on a query about the med doseage. In our conversation I reported that Kal was off her food this morning. This occurs every now and again. (Was it as the result of her raiding my rubbish bin - something she's NEVER done before .... I'm keeping an open mind to blockage, either from the front end or the back end. She is now eating, so I've ruled out front end blockage. I'll be relieved when she's done a poop.) Mid-morning she 'asked' to go outside for toileting. Habitually, she goes out the front door and round to the backyard, negotiating 2 wide (but not overly steep) steps along the way. I heard a 'clatter' and walked around the corner to find her trying to pull herself up off the ground. It was obvious that her back legs had given way whilst trying the steps and that she'd fallen backwards back to the ground. As I had reported these occurrences to Russell Mitten, I hadn't made a big point of them to Guy. But tonight, bringing this to his specific attention, lead to further discussion. In short, he's suggesting that it would be unusual for these symptoms (legs failing ...... this has happened in her front legs as well, but not as often) to be the result of the adrenal tumour and that perhaps there is a neurological disorder in play. I told Guy that I realise no-one can know for certain either way, but I'd hate to think that I put Kal through surgery for the adrenal tumour only then finding that quality of life was insufficient for it to be kind to keep her going due to some other (eg. neurological disorder). If that was the case, then she'd be better off (IMO) living her life as best and as happily as could be possible until it wasn't possible anymore - at which time I would, of course, give her the gift of eternal freedom and peace. Guy sounded concerned over my descriptions of these events and we have decided on this plan: To start the meds. For me to report any further stumbling/falling incidents as they occur (by email to him) If Guy wants me in sooner as a result of my reports, he'll call me for the purpose of a neurological examination. If I don't hear from him, we will proceed as if to surgery in a couple of weeks (approx) for the removal of the tumour, but he will do a neurological exam before surgery takes place. The outcome (surgery for adrenal tumour removal or not) will depend on the findings. So that's where we are at the moment. I know you all wish us well and Kal and I thank you for that. I'll keep you informed of updates. I'm not religious, but I admit to silent prayers. They include the little burns victim girl who was today hit by a car; Kal (of course); Pampa & her girl; Jodie and her 'Ollie' and Rusky and her 'old Goldie' .... and, of course, all the other doggies who need wishes for good health and a loving forever home. The airways must be buzzing with activity.

Come on Ollie, come on, come on ...... !!!! Fantastic news. Well done Ollie. And especially well done Jodie, for all your time and care for Ollie. Good on you. Many wishes for lots of good times to follow.

I understood tomato's weren't good for a dog. Any idea what tomato sauce (which would have other additives in it) is likely to do to the dog's stomach/system? The dogs don't seem to mind Apple Cidar Vinegar and it does have other good effects on the dog's health too. ETA: You can add Apple Cidar Vinegar to the dog's food rather than the water. See also THIS link to a current DOL thread on the same topic.

I agree with a number of responses where it's about finding the method that best suits your dog and also achieves your goal/expectations. I will include aversives (ie verbal and/or physical corrections - ie +P) in the training phase of obedience training where appropriate. (There are, of course, exceptions in which case I will use -R, such as withholding praise/treat etc.) What I don't like is when handlers get 'fixed' on the idea that aversives only will train the dog, and they forget or get lazy about putting much energy into giving the dog praise and reward (fun) to counter balance. IMO, the level of praise/reward should far outway the level of any correction.

Another good idea ..... they might even be able to simply defrost overnight? ... not worry about microwave?

This I will be doing. Thank you for your thoughts, DBS. Appreciated. Abs: Hhhhmmmm ..... I guess that's possible. I've always steadfastly stuck to the "soak RO overnight and then feed" rule. Never thought about doing it, mixing it, adding water and freezing. doh! So simple! :D Thanks. Received notice from post office there's a parcel for me to pick up. Although the notice doesn't say "registered" which is what I was expecting, I presume it will be Kal's meds. Unless, of course, someone's sent me a biiiiiiigggg present/surprise. Got home too late to collect. Will do that tomorrow.

Well, I did a quick google and yes, apple seeds come up in serveral "don't feed" lists due to various toxins. The lists/info I've scanned over don't give much more detail than that. OT: Oh ....... and definately no marijuana for your dogs, ok? (That's on the "don't feed" list too). I can just imagine everyone's dog packing up their bongs. :D Also, "pennies" (manufactured from 1980 onwards). I don't know if our cent coins contain the same substance (ie zinc) but apparently a dog even swallowing one coin can become very ill, if not die. (After they've packed up their bongs, they tuck their money away too. )

Oh .... sorry if I was wrong. Kal doesn't eat apples, but earlier family dogs we had used to eat our cores, no problems. Still .... I guess back then we did a lot of things wrong that we shouldn't have.

Let the whole lot go through. Admittedly I cut out pumpkin seeds before juicing, so I'm not sure how they'd go, being a larger type seed. For a normal healthy dog, I don't believe there's any problem with dogs eating pumpkin seeds though.

Hey there Pampa! I've been thinking about you and yours too. Hope the packing and, moreover, your girl's treatment is doing the trick. I did ask about side affects to the meds. Fainting is one side affect (the meds will work to reduce clotting - to avoid the clots causing probs during and after surgery). Low blood pressure is another possible side affect. However, Guy tells me doseage is very low and often even if healthy specimens (ie dogs with normal blood pressure) are given this medication, there are no such symptoms appearing as a result. Guy seems fairly pleased with Kal's clinical signs (and is happy that she is putting on weight, to boot) so he doubts I'll see adverse reaction. The meds will be sent to me by registered mail. This is often slower than normal mail, so I presume I will get them tomorrow or maybe Friday (????). Surgery will then be approx 2 weeks after that. He said I can work surgery in to suit my diary. It doesn't matter if she ends up on the meds for, say, 3 weeks .... it's just recommended that it is a minimum of 10-14 days. Apart from the surgery and post-op recovery, my other concern is Kal's eating regime. I've explained this to Guy (ie that she has nerve damage to oesophegus and has been diagnosed IBS) so he's clear that her food must be soupified and that I shall supply the food portions. They will have to soak the rolled oats each night beforehand and feed her half the next morning and the other half the next night. I will explain this again (and how much water to include to be satisfactorily 'soupy' so it doesn't get stuck) when I'm at the hospital. I was following Kal down the hallway last night. She's a bit slow on her legs, but with the weight gain at least now doesn't look like she'll blow away in the slightest breeze. I actually was jokingly taunting her calling her "fatty, fatty" ........... . Doesn't seem that long ago when I used to be concerned she was putting on too much weight. Now I'm delighted. ETA: PMing you now, Pamps!

Only makes it easier if it doesn't shoot out huge chunks that one has to sort out from the rest of the pulp and re-process or put in the food processor to chop up in addition to doing the juicing. One also has to look out for the pulp that is shot out all over the kitchen if it is not fitted exactly right - and one has to actually start up to see if it's all Ok or not. Sometimes, i'm still cleaning up the bits a week after the event! I don't know why you'd be having these probs .... I don't. I agree, there are a few thin bits that don't get pulped, but I don't fuss with them too much. I also agree ..... make sure the processer has completely stopped before you take the lid off - otherwise you'll THEN find food is splattered (by centrifugal force) over the room.

Good post, Labs.

Hhmph! YOU are a vego if you don't eat meat. What rot to suggest you're not a vego because your dog eats meat. We tend to 'humanise' our dogs enough (behaviourally speaking) as it is, let alone imposing human preferences which might compromise the dog's health.

Good luck, Ruffles. Remember to work to your dog's capabilities, only gently pushing beyond the 'comfort zone' in small increments. Be happy with small improvements as you progress. Let us know how you get on.

Part of your dog's reward for exhibiting obedience should be being able to sniff; have a bit of a play etc. Honestly, a 24" lead isn't going to suffice. Perhaps a better quality longer lead? I recommend a lead that is 1.5 metres in length. Ahhh ..... and of course, at that age where, in his mind, his antics and your reaction and capabilities in controlling them will be a test of where he thinks his boundaries lay. In otherwords, testing your leadership. I would have stayed .... and like you, insisted that he comply. I might have increased my distance to give me the advantage (and maybe, as I worked, decrease the distance a litte). I'd tighten up my 'leadership', assuming there is room to do so. Wouldn't hurt to notice if there's a difference at training. I know it's hard - but in the absence of another option, it is at least a place where you know your dog needs to learn self-control, even in the presence of the distractions. Use the club for this purpose. Given they're not giving you much/any help anyway, as it sounds, then work your dog in 'sit' 'drop' etc. even at a bit of a distance from the class to begin with. If you're happy with the result, finish on that and go home, whether or not the class has completed. Progressively decrease distance from the class as your dog's reliability in obedience grows. The attitude you received from this instructor would inspire me to be more determined to overcome this hurdle. And at the end, when you're dog's doing great, you can tell that instructor that the improvement in your dog's behaviour is not due to her input, but due to your dedication, persistence and consistency.

That's what I meant .... but know that I'm not an NDTF employee, it's only that my ear is close to the ground. Info is 2nd hand. So, if you're interested and not already on their 'list' it's worth checking with them. As I understand it, the delays have been in relation to beaurocratic govt requirements due to the course being nationally accredited. It WILL happen, though, as soon as they can finalise the material etc.

When you do look for a juicer , go for one of the ones that allow you to fit big things in it (eg. a whole sized apple). This will make life easier and preparation time quicker. ETA: I find it easier and quicker to juice (returning the juice to the pulp) than I did when I used to blend the vegies.

Further to my earlier post, I returned to add (and I use your quote, here, Onslowsmum, because I thought it appropriate) that some obedience clubs are about teaching you how to teach your dog 'sit', 'drop', 'heel' etc.................. not necessarily about teaching you to deal with (unwanted) dog behaviour. For this reason, it's always worthwhile asking what their instructors 'qualifications' are (ie can they and will they help you deal with these sorts of behaviour issues as well as simply general obedience skills) before you join up. Obedience clubs such as these (instructors without understanding and capabilities to help you deal with behaviour issues) are generally speaking cheaper cost wise (ETA: Actually, sometimes, in the long term, they're not) and for those who don't have problems they're unable to deal with themselves, are perhaps satisfactory. It's when you have problems or when these behaviours surprise you by appearing, that you realise an obedience school with more qualified instructors would have been a better plan. Your dog's behaviour might have been a 'one off', but if you do chose to return there and the behaviour reappears, I'd recommend you seek an alternative obedience school .... one with instructors who are able and willing to assist you through the problems - if only because your dog's newly developed behaviour is likely to escalate. In otherwords, get help early, rather than later. ETA: It's always worth re-evaluating our 'perceived' leadership to determine as to whether our dog/s perceive it likewise. Sometimes this takes honesty and a bit of 'self-critique'. If leadership is undoubtedly 'in place', then at least you can rule that one off the list of possible causes for the behaviour. Sometimes dogs will sit, drop etc. ..... even though leadership isn't quite as it should be, and in other areas it can exhibit itself by way of other behaviour issues. Not to suggest you're not the 'leader' .... just something that might be worth considering.

Ruffles - that your club instructor chose not only to not help you by at least explaining if not demonstrating how to regain the control necessary as well as suggesting you should not return to training at that club only exhibits the lack of knowledge and 'know how' that instructor possesses. To top it off by humiliating you to the class is further evidence of the instructor's lack of capability. IMO, running someone down to others is a way of treading someone down to make oneself look good and blameless. A sign of a small person, IMO. Take comfort from knowing that. The difference between you and that instructor is that you can not only look him/her in the eyes, but that you are the one entitled to do so.

Thank you for that description, PAX. Without seeing the video, I do wonder why someone would work in that fashion until the frustration level was such that caused the dog to jump the fence. (Or, for that matter, work in front of a fence where it was possible for an aggrevated dog to jump it in the first place. ) As said, though, can't view the video. I agree with you PAX. Fantastic results from working dogs in drive can be achieved and I will prescribe to using that asset to the dog's and handler's benefit whenever possible, but not ALL dogs possess the level of quality we need to serve the purpose and some behaviour issues need more urgent attention than would be allowed even if we can build on the 'drive'.

Hi Yes - spoke to Guy last night. Second Urine test still shows no results to indicate Cushing's. DBS - I spoke to him about the "atypical" Cushing's. Some of the 'jargon' goes a bit beyond me, but the outcome of that part of the conversation was that, given all the checks and balances and clinical signs etc. etc., he does not believe this to be Kal's condition. So - we're back to: 1. Benign tumour. In which case it is possible that it is not the cause of any of the symptoms I've been describing throughout. 2. "Phaeochromocytoma" type tumour. If this tumour is as encapsulated as the ultrasound shows, then it will be simpler to remove. We won't know 100% that the tumour has not invaded tissue/blood vessels until surgery. With the tumour (and, hence, the adrenal gland) removed, this leaves the one remaining adrenal gland. The adrenal gland (on the left side) is small and we believe atrophied. It is possible, though, that it is still functional and will take over the job of adrenal release following surgery. If not, then we have Addison's disease, in which case Kal will require meds to counter balance the affect. Guy is sending out pre-surgery meds. Kal will be on them for 2 weeks. During this time I am to arrange for surgery to be scheduled for a date directly after the medication course. Speaking to Guy last night has returned to me some confidence in the possible success of the surgery. I remain, however, acutely aware of the risks. The good news is that Kal is still holding down the cooked chicken. (I note that she's been groaning from time to time since its introduction, though.) Going by her looks, it would seem she has increased more weight even since the last check. :rolleyes: Rusky - that's "old Goldie" in your new avatar, isn't it? She's lovely - I can see that in her eyes alone. Hope her health improves with each day. I think of her too. And Pampa's girl. And Lucinda. And Ollie.

The video clip won't run on my computer, so I haven't had the opportunity to view it. I can only imagine what was going on, by the descriptions given in the posts here. I'd like to add something for thought in relation to the above quote. When I adopted my girl she was dog/dog aggressive (fear). Over time and with leadership (including obedience training) and desensitisation, she improved. One day, we were walking off lead through a park when a dog trailing it's lead minus handler, ran over and tried to 'rush' her. I stood in to stop this o/dog, but it would run away and then try to dart in from another angle. To make the situation easier for me to control, I gave my dog the 'sit' command (to keep her in one spot) and continued to block this o/dog's attempts to get at her. Kal held the sit (I was so proud ), but if a video clip had been taken of it, you might possibly have concluded from her posture the same as the thoughts in this quote. No - she wasn't happy to sit in that environment. Her posture relfected her concern about the other dog. BUT she trusted in my leadership and that I would and could control the situation. In fact, after that event, there was an even more remarkable improvement in Kal's confidence when we went for walks and when we met up with other dogs, which she is now capable of doing without aggressing. IMO, this was because I showed one additional but, to her, SIGNIFICANT sign that I definately, without doubt, was 'leader' ..... ie I took over the function of guarding and protecting and exhibited my competency in doing so. The purpose of the above is to demonstrate that the posture you see in the dog in the video (as portrayed by your posts - as said, can't view the video) may well be from the fact the dog is merely uncomfortable with the circumstances, albeit that the dog may well be prepared to comply with the handler's command and trusts the handler will competantly deal with the situation and keep it safe. It might not be a reflection of harsh handling, as posed here. ETA: Another brief example: Dog (that I know of) - extremely aggro to people. Over time, behaviour modification and training has resulted in the dog looking at the owner whenever it is in a position it feels uncomfortable/threatened. ETA: Another brief example: Kal - who used to have fear to strangers. Through behaviour modification and training learnt to sit whenever strangers were walking towards us. Got to a point where she would see someone on the footpath and automatically sit. Didn't like the situation, but learnt that she was never harmed (and actually was praised) when she sat, so she offered the position without command.

Hi petaj. Only that the NDTF distance learning course will be up and running soon. As HR mentions in his post (above), there's been a few unexpected set backs on this new distance learning course, but these are being sorted. If you're interested, you could email NDTF (see OP .... I added the NDTF link there) and ask for your name to be added to their list. From what I gather, the first distance learning course is full (I think - you should double check this), with many on the list for the second distance course.

Thank you, DBS. Have printed this off also, in preparedness for Guy's telephone call .... which I now presume will come Monday.