Erny

Update as at today: Last week, on one of our (small) walks, Kal exhibited the uncontrollable urge to pee again. She must have squatted about 15-20 times in the space of 5 minutes. The following morning, I was watching her walk through the family room on her way outside. Her back legs all of a sudden collapsed and she nearly fell completely over, except that they seemed to "kick back in" at the last moment and she was able to right herself. This is not the first time this has happened. I took Kal to the Vet for a follow-up ultrasound. This shows that the adrenal gland on the righ hand side of her body has grown larger since the last ultrasound mid-February. The Vet said that the amount of enlargement is significant. As best as can be detected by ultrasound, the enlargement seems to be pressing against the major blood vessels which are located in this region. This did not show up on the last ultrasound. Apparently the ultrasound picture is "motally" (sp?) which indicates different tissues (by this I presume they mean tumour). By all accounts, it would appear that the enlargement has not actually invaded the blood vessels. The Vet believes that the majority of Kal's symptoms could be being caused as a result of this "enlargement". The only one he can't factor into the equation are the two episodes of uncontrollable urges to pee (as reported to you here on DOL in February and now today). I have asked Russell if there is anything else, separate from the enlarged adrenal gland that might be causing this (remembering and acknowledging that he is not "God" and can only go by the tests we have done). Eg. Another tumour elsewhere .... spinal? Russell is very confident that this would not be the case. He is as confident as he can be that we have already tested for other foreseeable possibilities. Beyond the above, I don't know much else at this stage. The recommended treatment is surgery, whereby this Adrenal Gland will be removed. There is not much else or, for that matter, anything at all, that we can otherwise do. My Vet (Russell Mitten) is conferring with another specialist surgeon (Guy Yates) and Guy is to call me. I expect Guy will give me more of the nitty gritty information/details at that point. They will NOT allow me to stay in the theatre while Kal is being operated on, even under my assurances that I am not a 'screamer' or 'fainter' and that I remain quiet. I only want to be there in the event of the unknown off chance that my presence will help Kal make it through the op. If she doesn't, and I'm not there, I'm always going to question myself. I have also found by previous experience that being present in the op I had a visual on what was done and that helped me comprehend the healing that was necessary afterwards, as well as how Kal might have been feeling during convalescence. But Russell tells me "they're the rules". I guess they've got to have them. I'll post back once Guy has telephoned me and I know more about what is to happen and when.

Good on you for your efforts in working towards a solution for your pup. When I adopted my girl, she wasn't particularly fussed/keen on vegetables and there was no way she'd eat them unless I mixed them with her meat. Over time, it seems she has acquired a taste, because now I can give her vegies (crushed) on their own, or she even licks up the occasional spill when I'm preparing her food parcels. Perhaps if you crush up the fruit (so there aren't any big pieces for your pup to easily pick out) and mix them with his main food (assuming he likes that) and an 'acquired' taste might develop for the fruit in the same way my girl's appetite for vegies developed? Of course, you might also find your boy simply likes the fruit after first investigation. Another way of encouraging them to like something they're not familiar with is to eat a piece of it first (with your pup watching), and then offer what's left. Make it a fun event. Good luck and hoping the skin allergies clear up soon. ;)

Hi Pampa ... Ok, so at this moment in time, the major concern relates to excessive urination during the trip (aside, of course, for the usual concerns we'd have whenever our pets are being transported separate to us)? If I'm being silly about this, please forgive me. In her travelling crate, can you have a "false floor" installed. The false floor to be made of hard wire mesh (close knit). Over the top, SOME padding, of sorts, for comfort. Although the padding would become wet, if she was to urinate, the bulk would at least opportunity to soak through and run away from the false floor, which is suspended a little above the real floor of the crate. ??????? Somehow, I can't help feeling I'm being naive here .... I'm sure there is more to the problems of travel given your girl's health issue and that my idea (above) is too simple to work properly. I really hope your girl is "good to go", Pampa, in time for the trip. Sending you "merde" thoughts (my fav French word of the Month ). It would be wonderful to know that, especially given what you've both gone/going through at the moment, she'd be able to stick with you.

Hi Pampa .... I'm afraid I've never been involved in flight travel with pets, nor do I have the knowledge required as far as your girl's condition/problem is concerned, to make much comment on whether it would be ok to travel or not. Based on this total lack of understanding, I ask: If she's been "ok" whilst on the Pred, can she remain on it for the purpose of the flight? If she was mildly sedated, would that not keep her calm and quiet, to prevent bruising if she were to move around too much? What's the alternative, Pampa? Is it what I'm thinking? What is the worst she is likely to suffer (as a result of her condition, that is) due to the flight? What's the life expectancy/prognosis with her condition? Pity you can't disguise her as a person and book a seat next to you for her And finally, whatever option you chose, do not consider yourself selfish. Look at all you have done and try to do.

HERE'S a link to an article I've just read from "Housepetmagazine". It relates to processed -vs- fresh. I've not read the whole thing right through yet, but it seems to put up a fairly balanced view and some may find it of interest. And HERE'S another regarding enzymes. Sorry GM .... it does come from America.

Bullyluvr could actually turn the "ball obsession" into a positive by training Ned to work in drive and increase Ned's obedience skills. Check out K9 Force's thread on the subject, BL. I bet you do, Gemibabe. It's tough, but the memories are priceless. Hold on to them.

This depends on the REAL reason Ned is reacting to each of the items mentioned. To determine this, the style of bark, Ned's body language at the time and also the ACTUAL trigger to the reaction needs to be established. So, you may well have asked a little question, but the answer can be quite huge and difficult to give unless we know the CAUSE of the behaviour. Desensitisation to the whipper snipper might be required, if the behaviour is triggered by a fear response. Removing any reinforcement from the ball might be required, if the behaviour is triggered by Ned receiving something good as a result of the interaction with it. You haven't really even given us the tip of the iceberg as far as information is concerned about Ned's behaviour to these items. This would be required in thorough detail. Even then, it may remain that to seriously answer your questions and alter Ned's behaviour, someone who knows and understands dogs (eg behaviourist) might be required to observe Ned "in action".

Greytmate ..... or maybe we're working on the research which is at least available to us and erring on the side of caution. A balanced raw whole meal diet is surely more certain than a diet of canned processed food. If this is not the case, where are the studies/research to suggest a balanced raw whole meal diet is not good? ETA: This is not intended as an "argument" and I've clearly expressed in my earlier posts my "narrow studies" and that my comments are "in my opinion". I'm finding your tone a bit more harsh than I would expect justified, or perhaps that's a trick of the written word and is unintended?

Fair enough, GM ... but I thought the topic was about a "canned food diet" which I interpret to mean "mainly (if not all) canned food". Nutritional value has been proven and reported to have been considerably reduced by heating processess. I doubt that any nutritionalist would recommend a diet of mainly canned/processed foods. And nutritionally speaking, a raw diet would do us all a lot better. Although I personally couldn't come at raw meat and given that I'm not much in the way of a meat eater anyway, would probably find my stomach couldn't cop it. How do you know what the affect of the processing is really doing to you. Often, the results are not seen until it's too late. How do you know if you're living to your full potential on your significant canned food diet? You suggest it isn't? How do you know? But again, given the sometimes misleading information on the can label, how do you really know? I would like to expect that canned food for human consumption is carefully monitored as far as quality etc. is concerned, but is the same consideration given to pet food? If that were the case, why is "pet" food for pets and not for both humans and pets? I don't think it's an effort to stop people feeding their dogs (in this case) canned food. I think it's about being uncertain as to what is really in the canned pet food, in relation to substance, nutrition and nutrients. I admitted that at the beginning of my post and I thought it was clear that my findings and thoughts were, for the most part, relative to those 3 brands. Wasn't there something fairly recently regarding the molecular change that occurred as a result of processing of margarine/spreadable butter variety items? And (although I go by memory) I'm sure it was reported as being carcinagenic. And I don't think that's the only variety of processed food that has been reported as being unhealthy for consumption. I see plenty of obese, albeit unhealthy people and dogs. Fat does not mean "well nourished" in so far as it relates to well balanced nutritional values. Being well balanced (provided the "right" balance of raw food is eaten) in nutrition, metabolic function would be optimal. This in turn does not lead to obesity. Do you think "overweight" means one is getting the best out of the food? Actually, I tend to refer to a "field of wheat" for example, rather than a "paddock of wheat". Chemicals are often sprayed over fields of grains etc. .... even for human consumption. But it is done at a reasonably controlled rate and at controlled times (eg. x days/weeks prior to harvest). Sometimes there can be excessive run off (exacerbated by inclement wet weather? I don't know, I'm not a farmer) to lower ends of the fields - or "paddocks" if you like. Excessive chemical saturation would render the produce unfit for human consumption. But not necessarily for pets. You'd have to ask the manufacturers this. The labels usually suggest "no artificial preservatives". But why do you think (eg) salt is often added to processed food stuffs? Good point. I'm not writing here to convince anyone .... simply to put forward a view, based on the results of some research, for people to read and (pardon the pun) digest, so they can weigh up all the information given in the posts and make their own choices. I guess more research into the increase of diseases (and what sort of diseases, including dental) compared to the decrease of diseases (and what sort of diseases) from the time commercial pet food was put on the market, compared to the period prior to commercial pet food, would be required to further determine the value or non-value of commercial pet food -vs- balance raw diet. The only thing I can say is that IMO, by feeding a raw diet, I am more certain of the quality of what my dog is really getting, both in content and nutritional value. ETA: I don't know why my quotes didn't work.

Greytmate .... I did some studies on canned food labels. Admittedly, it was a narrow field of study (only compared about 3 different brands). It's not necessarily the food stuffs advertised as being in the can, it's what is left of the 'good stuff' after the processing is completed. And the problem is, you really need to know how to read the labels properly. The nutritional value is given on a 'wet weight' basis. You need to be able to convert that to a 'dry weight' basis to ascertain true value. In one of the labels I studied, it showed the salt content to be eleven times the optimum salt requirement of a dog, although first glance at the label and you might be forgiven to think it was only two times the optimum level (which is bad enough). Too much salt can irritate the digestive system and can cause a mineral imbalance because the salt itself can adversley impact on the calcium/potassium balance in the dog's system. This is just one example. The other problem is, commercial food labels often express the words "not more than" ... so, when you read the nutritional value, it isn't necessarily the amount stated, and in fact, the pet owner doesn't then really know how much is contained. A further matter to consider is the affect of heat processing on the nutritional values in the product. As is commonly understood, cooking food destroys the natural enzymes and microbial content, preventing the natural process of decay. Unfortunately, it also destroys natural vitamins, essential fatty acids, amino acids and proteins contained in the food and renders many minerals unavailable for absorption from the gut. Apart from the food then becoming nutritionally deficient, the absence of valuable enzymes (which assist not only in slowing the aging processes but also the digestion of the food), forces the pancreas to work harder. This may result in a number of canine related diseases, including Pancreatititis, Pancreatic Insufficiency and Sugar Diabetes. The characteristics of major nutrients such as fats, proteins and carbohydrates are altered by the 'cooking' process (the greater the heat, the greater the change) - so much so they become not only indigestible, but may be regarded by the body as foreign molecules which, in turn, can result in allergic reactions, including auto-immune diseases like arthritis. Some may also become carcinogenic. I often wonder at the quality of the food substances contained in some can food brands. I do not know if the meat content is derived from high quality sources, or whether from dead, dying, diseased or disabled animals and/or whether the meat has been chemically treated to prohibit it from human consumption. If grains or vegetables etc. are used, I don't know if they are high grade quality, or whether they were deemed unfit for human use due to excessive chemical contamination in the fields or perhaps the production remains swept up off the manufacturing plant floor. Also, by law, the labels only have to display "typical analysis" and not "guaranteed analysis" as they used to. Why the change, do you think? Overall, this is why I prefer to feed a whole raw meal diet, comprising of human grade quality foods (which I think, sometimes, are bad enough given all the chemicals that are fed to the animals for fattening etc. etc.) ..... at least I know WHAT is really going in and that there are no additional additives included simply for preservative purposes (other than what might already be in the human grade fresh food ... but then, what better choices - short of growing and slaughtering my own stock - are there?) Just my opinion based on the studies and research I've been able to do.

Will be thinking of you and your girl on Tuesday, and looking out for your (hopefully good news) post later in the week, Pampa. Merde!

Ruffles .... glad it's working for you. Now, once the drop is happening consistently on the "word command", don't forget to then randomise the "word" and "hand signal" so that your dog doesn't lose the skill for either.

Erny whispers : Come on Ollie ............. ............... come on ............. ............. come on

Could this be because the Vet/Vet Clinic don't know that much about the nitty gritty of nutrition and therefore find it easier (ie a scapegoat) to simply refer to the foodstuffs they sell? Is it also possible that, if the Vet gives advice on what to feed in a raw diet, and it was wrong and affected the pup, the pup's owner could take some sort of action against the Vet? Maybe the Vets are covering their backsides .... if they recommend a commercial food and the commercial food is wrong, it would be the commercial food company that stands liable .... no? I agree .... On more than one occasion, before I can even open my mouth to explain the complications/difficulties I'm having with my dog's condition (ie illness), I'm having prescription food shoved down my throat (pardon the pun).

Holding breath for good news ..... Come on Ollie, come on, come on ..... Come on Ollie, come on.

And that's what we've been trying to do, sfg-shep. To undertake this training on your own is not only downright dangerous, it is, as I understand it, illegal (unless you undertake Schutzund, who have a 'way around it'). Jeff, or anyone else more knowledgeable in this field - correct me if I'm wrong. sfg-shep .... trying to do this by "internet training" is not sufficient. You need to get yourself involved in a Club that can properly coach you and your dog. This is why we ask you to let us know where you are based. If you really do want proper help and intend to do this work with your dog responsibly and sensibly, PM Jeff with your location detail (or rough idea of location, at least). Did you look up the link Jeff put up for you? If you genuinely seek our help and are serious, genuine and responsible about your endeavours and intentions, you'd do well to follow our suggestions.

Say the command. Wait two seconds (no more). If no drop, then follow through with the hand signal. Am I right in guessing that the hand signal has been given always/mostly at the same time as the command? If so, that's why they are paired together. By separating them, and doing repetitions (and working with your dog's favourite motivator as reward for executing the drop) you should be able to build on your dog's "anticipation". IE When he's used to hearing the word, and has recognised it is always followed up by the hand signal, he'll begin to anticipate and drop on the word (so he can get his reward sooner ). Similarly, when dogs know the "word" but haven't yet been taught the hand signal, the hand signal should come first and then the word. The dog builds up anticipation (as described above) and knows the drop command will follow, so begins to beat you to it and starts dropping on the hand signal. When your dog drops on (in your case) the "word", make sure the reward you give is a higher reward than for dropping with the hand signal. Hope that helps.

Jeff - with the lack of response we're getting, I can't help feeling that the OP is trying to train the dog up on his own. I hope not - this is a bad move if you don't know what you're doing. Can turn the dog into a random biter and consequently a dangerous dog. sfg-shep - I'm sorry if I've got you wrong, but you're not being very forthcoming with info even though you ask for our help and we're trying to give it to you.

Hi Lablover! That link wasn't to a DVD or movie OT: Oh .... somehow, news got around about a little lunch recently had. Funny how the news went up to and back from NSW :p

Where are you based? Some of us may be able to recommend some schools for you to go to. It would also help if you told us which school you're already with. As Jeff has offered, you could PM him with the details if you don't want to put that out on a public forum. Are you still with them, or training on your own?

Wonder how they got on in the wild ..... Diet influences temperament more than many realise. In short, it affects/effects the release of seratonin (brain chemical responsible for calm/higher threshold for reactivity).

Oh, hey, Saltwood .... that's really tough.

Fingers crossed for a happy conclusion to these troubles, Pampa. Get well wishes to your girl.

Like Feralpup, this is not to knock Vets (although those who have read my posts on the subject will know that I've struck more than my fair share of not so good ones ). I have a dog "Kal" who is not well. We haven't been able to find out what's wrong. It is chronic, complicated and convoluted. Those who have read of Kal in the thread in "health" will know what I mean. She is under care of a Vet who works from Werribee (Melb Uni). As part of 'monitoring', he asked me, at one stage, to check Kal's weight once a week for 4 weeks (she is too thin and I'm having trouble getting weight on her, amongst other things). Because I don't live near Werribee, I popped into one of the local Vets for this purpose. Each time I went in I would let them know Kal was under care at Werribee Vets and I had to monitor her weight ... was it ok to use the scale. One of the staff - I'm not sure if a Vet Nurse or junior Vet - came over and asked if she could help. Thinking she may not have heard my announcement and permission to use the scales, I repeated myself, including the part where she was under veterinary care at Werribee. Before I could even quite finish the sentence, she jumped in with "have you tried the Hills Science Diet formulas" and was about to go into full spiel about them. Now, sheesh .... I know she meant well. But she didn't even ask what could be the matter or anything else. How would she even know that food of that nature would not exacerbate my dog's condition? Just made me feel like the important thing was to sell .... then maybe investigate the dog (not that I was there for them to do that anyway).

This is ME we're talking about! This is why I think the chiro suggested I increase the "greens" (ie spinach, silverbeet etc.) A bit OT, but to tell you that my Dad makes his own bread and tends to experiment with what he adds to the baking mixtures. Unbeknowns to me, someone gave him one of those big white buckets (with lids) filled with celery seeds, so he was putting some of the seeds in his bread each time he baked. Back then, I kept my horse on their property and as I used to ride in competition eventing, was at their place each night to work him. Mum (gem that she is), always concerned that I don't eat properly, would have tea on the table when I flew through and I'd always finish with a slice of Dad's bread, toasted (yum). Over the next few weeks, I couldn't work out why I needed to go to the loo so often - I felt fine, but did begin to wonder what this problem was. THEN I found out about the celery seeds. I did beg Dad to cease with adding them, and things returned to normal. So, I can certainly personally attest to the fact that celery seeds, at least, have that diuretic affect. Thanks for the wish, Abs. Me too. We'll get there. Thanks for your response. And you too, Zoiboy. I've made a note of what you've said about the blood & stool tests and the meds. Will address this and the Coeliac condition to the Vet when I take Kal on 11th April.