Erny

Thanks Isaviz. That's the scary part .... I'm not sure I WILL know which one is the right one. Each has its down side. Each is not without its own risks. And I have to be the one to make that decision on her behalf. Tough call, whichever way I go. I'm praying that I be guided to the right decision.

Ok - I've had a few days to stew/think/dwell on Kal's condition. Regardless of what it is: Cushings Addisons Incidental the choice of treatment Surgery Medication Do nothing isn't great. So I'm opening my mind up to exploring more options, just to widen the field a little. I did a (so far) very small amount of googling into holistic treatments - to my surprise, there are some. I've emailed one person who wrote about it - she's in the USA (I think) and asked for some help. There's a human medication too - called something like "Adrenoboost" or some such. Thinking about getting it for me too, going by the wonderful reports that were posted about it. (But then, they'd hardly post the bad reports, I would think.) In the meantime, does anyone here know of a holistic Vet/technician who has some good experience in this field and who might be able to guide us, assuming this is the treatment I chose for Kal, in the administration of holistic medication/treatment? I'm closing off now to go to bed and I have an early start to training tomorrow, so apologies if there are responses that I don't get back to until Sunday night or Monday. ETA: The Vet has to confirm the appointment, but I've booked Kal in for the testing regime required to rule in, or rule out, Cushing's & Addison's disease on 9th March, 2006. Will post results when I know them.

The prongs go through the sock. They are not covered by it. The links are, however, disguised by the sock. Select a colour that best blends with your dog's coat, if you can. :D

Don't forget .... you're aiming for "inconspicuous", not for "see what I've got on!" :D

Cut out the toe end of a sock and thread it through - works pretty well ... :D

I thought it was only the Victorian Government that was stupid and ignorant enough to ban them, even in the face of submissions to suggest they do otherwise (which, it was admitted, they didn't even read). Hugely Wirthless was behind the ban too .... does he travel?

Group training is excellent, and IMO, necessary for the pet/companion dog. It exposes them, on a regular basis, to other dogs, different people, noises in and around the environment, general traffic (both vehicles and people in crowds) etc. etc. and teaches them the self control necessary to behave in their presence. Something you won't necessarily achieve if you don't generalise your training to these sorts of environments. The classes should be fun - but remember, some of the fun responsibility is yours. You should share the joy of your dog's successes in even the most simple of exercises such as the "sit", as well as the fun in "release" time between exercises, when you bring out your dog's favourite motivator and have a game with him/her - his/her reward for doing a good job. ;) The most boring training exercises I've witnessed is when people have lost this thrill, and refuse to spend the energy in having a good time with their dog. Yes - "fun" will depend a lot on how the instructor runs the class, but also it's about your attitude and about whether you can delight in your dog's achievements (even the very small ones) and whether you can share with your dog the enjoyment that should follow. If you do experience any hurdles in training, you should be able to speak to your instructor either before, after or during class and your instructor should be versed enough to give you some tips to help you through any difficulties. With REALLY sticky problems, sometimes a private lesson can assist greatly to get you through them more quickly, so you can continue to improve and progress through your classes without too much delay. Yep ... and if you were too, I'd be jumping up and down recommending Australian Dog Training (and me!) to you!

Nekhbet's post spoke good sense. DO engage the services of a behaviourist who has the experience and qualifications to deal with aggression issues, and do so as quickly as possible. The longer the behaviour symptom is left inadequately treated, the longer and more difficult it is to alter. I'd be inclined to go for the services of a 'specialist' in the area, rather than the generic services provided by some franchise type businesses/companies. Your question (above) is impossible to answer over the net, but DON'T LOSE HOPE. Many an aggression problem has been able to be at least managed to a suitable level. Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

Amazing how dogs learn from consistency in patterns - whether we intend them or not. Goes to show we are ALWAYS teaching our dogs something whenever we are around them (and even sometimes when we are not ;)). Good for you, Tristan .... sounds like you're doing an outstanding job.

What - and children don't pee, vomit etc. when THEY'RE in the shopping centre? Just because they're parents are at an advantage that they can nappy them. Those that gave you 'looks' and/or commented .... I say bully to them - they should get a life and dedicate their time to worry and do things about the more serious things in life. Good for you for socialising your dog. Perhaps take some things that you can use to tidy up the accidents immediately. (eg paper towelling). People look at you? Give them a look back like "So? This is normal - it's life" ... try to not look too apologetic or emabarressed - some people thrive on the discomfort of others. Shrug and smile at them - "I wish it didn't have to happen, but it's no biggy after all" type attitude. To gain back your confidence, and to make sure it doesn't become a behavioural habit, try going back to the shopping centre and then walking back out again (obviously giving Flossie ample opportunity to settle and piddle before she goes in - even if she has eliminated prior to departure at home). Reward her when you're outside for no inappropriate elimination. Reward her when she eliminates appropriately. Teaching a 'cue' word for elimination is great for these sorts of trips too. Do this a few times until you can comfortably and confidently assess whether this might have been a 'one off' situation. When she's in the shopping centre, keep her attention towards you as much as possible, to keep her from thinking about her bladder. ETA: I'm not sure what the rules are for shopping centres and pups. I guess some health restrictions apply - especially around food areas. I presume it gets to a stage where pups become too old to be permitted entry to the centre, and this is something that needs to be respected. Sometimes, if the pup is considerably small, it's advantageous to put a towell in a sturdy and appropriately sized carry bag and hook it over your shoulder and under your arm. This keeps pup safely controlled and protected, and the towel services to soak up accidents. Is Flossie in training as a service dog which would otherwise give her right of way? If I recall correctly, she's in training as an Assistance Dog, isn't she? I presume she was wearing her coat. People give you are hard time over accidents in life? THEY are the ones with the problem. Don't you worry.

Methods should IMO be shown, rather than described. The method/s used and/or their intensity is dependant on your dog's disposition, so your obedience instructor should be able to help you. If he/she can't, I would suggest you search for one/those that can, and/or arrange a private behaviourist consultation at home. Apart from methods to use to extinguish the symptoms, it's also necessary to investigate why the dog is continuing to mouth/bite and cover other anomolies which could be contributing to your dog's behaviour (I already have my suspicions ). What area do you live in?

For classes and/or private lessons, I'd recommend Steve Austin @ Hanrob Kennels. For private lessons, of course K9Force is a popular choice. He's also DOL member and can be PM'd for contact. Links for each are: Steve Austin - Hanrob Kennels K9Force

Yeah Dogsbesotted ..... you know heaps!!!!!! And the info you provide is good, informative and helpful stuff too. Thanks.

Thank you Dogsbesotted for the information. I must admit I'm all 'thunk' out at the moment, so I hope you don't mind that I revist your post in the next day or two and read the links you've supplied. I'm sure it will be helpful information. I think my Vet is a little surprised at the amount of information and understanding I already have - although many don't like us to do our own research (and I can understand why sometimes, because sometimes some people think they then "know" it too well), but I did notice there was a lot he could talk to me about without too much explanation. Surely that will reflect on his bill to me! Thanks Pampa - I agree .... "damn". The last two years have been a long drawn out saga, beginning with many shrug offs and accusations (verbally or otherwise) that I am neurotic, to now. And we're not quite finished yet. Whichever way it works out, I can't help but recall that Kal's previous owner was going to put her to sleep because she simply didn't want a dog anymore. If she would put her to sleep for that, I could not imagine Kal being here today, given the amount of money, Vet care, post operative care and concern that has been necessary in the past five and one half years, if she had not come my way. Small mercies and many blessings thanked by me, for Kal has the apocalypse that has altered my life. I will, of course, keep you all informed of the outcome of the tests. I understand my options. I'm not sure which one I will take, when the time comes to decide. That decision will lay dormant until I know what Kal is dealing with. I didn't realise what a huge thread this would turn out to be when I first posted about the peculiar symptoms Kal exhibited a month or so ago. Thanks once again for all your well wishes and generous thoughts. from Kal and me.

Thank you everyone. I spoke with the Vet today who confirms there is a mass on Kal's right Adrenal Gland. In short (if that's at all possible for me ) he tells/suggests to me: 1. The Gall Bladder polyp is likely to be incidental and is unlikely to be a problem. 2. He acknowledges that the Adrenal Gland produces hormones including those that produce Cushings. Given that one adrenal gland is enlarged, he acknowledges that it could signify one form of Cushings. Even though Kal's other clinical signs, in his opinion, don't support Cushings, he agrees that we would be foolish to rule it out and need to test for it even if for the sake of eliminating that possibility. IF it is proven by the tests that Kal does have Cushings, she will have the ADH (which is the adrenal dependant version, as opposed to the petuitary dependant version). The safest medication normally prescribed for Cushings would not suitable in Kal's case, as that medication effects the petuitary gland, not the adrenal gland. The other medication would be the one which does have side affects and which might produce an irreversible cortisol response that would result in Addison's Disease. Another alternative would be surgery to remove the mass. IF the surgery were to be successful, it would cure Kal of Cushings Disease (if, in fact, tests prove this is what she has). However, it is tricky major surgery as the adrenal gland rests on the kidney and is right next to the aorta. The form of tumour Kal has is the kind that has a tendancy to invade blood vessels and veins. There is, according to my Vet, a 10% chance that Kal would not survive the surgery, due to the possibility of her bleeding out. This, I guess, would depend on how invasive the tumour has become. The only other alternative would be to do nothing - allow Kal to live out the rest of her life in the best way possible, and when 'quality' stops being 'quality', for her to be laid to rest. I find that last part of the sentence difficult to type and does not come without the production of tears. 3. It might not be Cushings. It might be that the enlarged adrenal gland is producing adrenaline like hormones in spurts (I presume he means more than the body would normally require). The choices for that is surgery, or do nothing. 4. It might be a benign growth producing nothing and may bear absolutely no relevance to Kal's condition symptoms. The odds on this are about 25% benign and 75% malignant. So, without a doubt, the first step we shall undertake is to rule out (or rule in) Cushings disease. He wants to do this test on a Thursday and I need to speak to the kennels at which I train to work out a day that I can take off for it. We will be at the hospital from 8.30 am until 5.30 pm on whatever date we arrange. As is usual, they accept that I will remain with Kal throughout. So, as far as further investigation results are concerned, I guess I have to wait to organise the date and then get the results. I do have one question before I close this particular post, however. I don't think my Vet believes the condition is Addison's at all. I know the test for Cushings is described the same as for Addison's (ie ACTH). Is it conducted in the same way? Or does that have to be two different tests. I know this is something I can ask him, as I figure, if it's not too extreme for Kal, it'd be good to get both done at the same time if possible.

I'm NOT in the know, but I expect that the "long term" version of the poison would have more chance of digestion/absorption by the rat, than the "short term" version, when the digestive process would be interrupted by death. ??? I don't know, but it makes sense to me. :D Still, like you Pampa, I wouldn't want to chance it. Great that she's still coming through ok. :D

Thanks Pampa. Yes - the Vet ruled out diebetes in the initial blood tests. The one enlarged adrenal gland does point to one form of Cushings, although I admit that ANY weight gain is not evident, either in appearance or by evidence of scale. I haven't (in my non-professional and limited knowledge capacity :D ) ruled out Addison's Disease either. I will wait for the Vet to call me. At least we are taking steps which are surely closer to telling me what is wrong and then, hopefully, to what we can do about it. I remain overwhelmed by the amount of time and attention people, who don't even know me, will give to my plight on behalf of Kal and the well wishes we've received. Humbling, to say the least, but particularly gratifying. Thanks everyone. I'll come back here once I've spoken with her Vet. In the meantime, keep well all. :D

:D ... does that mean "wasting bl#@dy time worrying over something I don't know is the right thing to worry about"? :D Pampa .... the extra time I find I have merely caring for my dog and NOT worrying about what might not be, I use to send you and yours my good wishes for your girl's full recovery. ;) Your thoughtfulness alone is helpful. Thank you. :D

Staffylovers - sorry, I missed this post earlier. "Sin-binning" is a good method if it works to successively reduce and finally diminish the behaviour. If your pup continues to come back at you and mouth at the same frequency and intensity, then I'd suggest, on its own, it is not enough. There are other methods which you can use singularly, or if necessary, in conjunction with sin-binning. However, those methods should be demonstrated to you and used only after the puppy has been seen and assessed by an instructor/trainer/behaviourist qualified for the job. :D As I mentioned earlier - I don't refer to an 'isolation punishment' as "time-out". To me, "time-out" is simply putting pup somewhere not unpleasant, but in a place where it will calm down. To me, "sin-binning" is a more appropriate term for isolation as a punishment. Just so's we're clear and not talking cross purposes. :D ETA: If your puppy school is conducted by instructor/s who have a sound knowledge and understanding of puppy behaviour and dog psychology, they should be able to help you out. If not, then I'd recommend you seek out a training club/puppy school that can properly advise and assist you. What State/area are you in?

Thank you for asking, Tramissa, and Kal and I thank you for the good thoughts. :D The Vet said he should be in tomorrow and will look at the ultrasound report/result then. He said he'd call me. As I will be training at the kennels tomorrow, it will be a matter of when he calls or when I can call him back. I'm hoping that by the end of tomorrow we will have been able to discuss his thoughts on the matter. I remain positive. I don't know if that's because I've got this 'feeling' that it will work out ok, or whether it's simply because that's all I can be at the moment. :D

Pampa .... does this continued bruising mean she's not out of the woods yet? Continued healing thoughts headed your girl's way.

Thank you Anne and Helen :D . I promise I'm not panicking. Experiencing a quiet concern, perhaps, but not panicking. ;) I don't know until I know. And who knows - the adrenal enlargement, whilst it might be tumerous, could even be benign. And if it's not, Kal and I will simply deal with it in whichever way is of the most benefit for Kal. Regarding the polyp in/on her Gall Bladder, whilst the radiologists can't analyse the results and make suggestions based on that analysis, they implied that the polyp is often just one of those things and that you expect things not to be perfect inside the body of an older animal. BUT I think I might go shout myself a scotch and coke - I don't normally drink by myself ...... but then, I'm not alone (Kal's here :D )

Although sometimes difficult to detect, close watching and learning the ways of your pup will help you identify early signs that you might now be missing. For example, I can tell when my girl is thinking of urinating by the way she slightly alters the walk with her back legs. I'd suggest, because those early signs are being missed, your catching your pup too late and hence the accident occurs ... and hence the habit continues. :D Or perhaps she's learnt the sequence is: 1. I pee. 2. I go outside. Rather than: 1. I go outside. 2. I pee. Just a hint here - her crate should NEVER be used as a place of punishment. By all means, "sin-bin" her, but use a place other than a spot that is meant to represent her 'safe-haven'. Eg. Toilet (close the lid and remove the toilet roll :D ).

Ruffles - Sorry - I obviously misread this part of your post ....

Kal underwent an abdominal ultrasound today. Two things were picked up: 1. Polyp on/in Gall Bladder. 2. Enlarged adrenal gland (right side only). Twice size than normal. I refuse to contemplate, at the moment, what this means and whether or not either of these two things have a bearing on the symptoms Kal's been displaying. The Vet should be in tomorrow and I'm expecting a call from him then. I'll post back when I have further information.